AnimeSuki Forums

Romanticide · 2016-12-20, 01:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dharma

Why anyone would call yuri fans cancerous, eh?

I fortunately haven't seen those types of yuri fans here, but damn. I've had my fair share of awful -phobes though, but i wouldn't call them cancerous.

deadite · 2016-12-20, 01:25

She's upftont with everyone else is because they arent close enough. When you are close to Kumiko, Reina and recently Asuka she'll start keeping things from you.

Marcus H. · 2016-12-20, 01:26

Quote:

The author worked alongside Kyoani for the anime, and Takeda wrote the remaining novels with influences from the anime itself. The reason why Shuuichi was downplayed was because she didnt want the anime to be too shoujo-esque, and wanted to show the friendship between Reina and Kumiko more.

Takeda: (laughs) In almost every work, not just novels, there’s so many that put romance above fellowship, aren’t there? I wasn’t satisfied with that, so I wrote this work thinking of making fellowship above romance. It’s just as Yamada-san says, Reina is a bit sensual from Kumiko’s point of view. It’s something characteristic that a girl would sense and describe. If a man were writing it, wouldn’t it be more like a lusty wolf coming out? (laughs)
Yamada: In this world, there’s so much that doesn’t just move because of love for love’s sake.
Takeda: Shuichi is special as well, but for Kumiko, Reina is depicted as a presence that is above him. Before Kumiko met her, he may have been her special guy, but now her relationship with Reina is eternal. It’s not just those two; that type of relationship is throughout this entire story. I wanted to show fellowship as this vastly important thing that gets cultivated by mankind depending on each other and working hard in that closed space of club activities.

Dafuq is this. Just because romance showed up doesn't mean it's already becoming shoujo.
It's like saying that a series that doesn't have any combat in it has no right to be called shounen. (Flying Witch is an example.)

If this was from a Season 1 interview, then I guess that Shuuichi is starting to bite their ass now that he has to become relevant to the plot now.

Romanticide · 2016-12-20, 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadite

She's upftont with everyone else is because they arent close enough. When you are close to Kumiko, Reina and recently Asuka she'll start keeping things from you.

She seemed really close to Reina all of last season though. Damn she sounds shady,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Dafuq is this. Just because romance showed up doesn't mean it's already becoming shoujo.
It's like saying that a series that doesn't have any combat in it has no right to be called shounen. (Flying Witch is an example.)

The rest of the interview is cringey as well. Also wanting to show their friendship should only go so far. KyoAni was straight up baiting. Reina and Kumiko could have interacted like Hazuki and Kumiko, or even Sapphire. It's easy to tell they're just friends. What KyoAni and Takeda did was pointless and not needed at all.

Spoiler for Yuri on Ice spoilers:

Marcus H. · 2016-12-20, 01:39

Somehow, I understand why people were apprehensive when Saya began to gain roughly an equal amount of screentime as Hotaru in the Dagashi Kashi adaptation when the original manga overwhelms the reader with Hotaru goodness.

In a sense, the original sentiment of the author is "fixed" by the production staff, only for the watchers to realize that it only "muddled" the anime with the personal biases of the staff, which inevitably clashes with the natural order of the story. In Dagashi's case, fortunately, the problem isn't as strong, although it seems like even the author implied not liking the direction the anime took.

Romanticide · 2016-12-20, 01:43

Honestly if Takeda had just let KyoAni do their usual shit, it probably wouldn't be such a problem - the only other instance i can think of is Tamako Market where Mochi wasn't really....developed much, so they had to make a movie to get him and Tamako together, while Midori just gave up. I mean, i liked Hyouka enough, even though it was a "shoujo", i think.

BleedingUranium · 2016-12-20, 01:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadite

She's upftont with everyone else is because they arent close enough. When you are close to Kumiko, Reina and recently Asuka she'll start keeping things from you.

Bingo. The closer you get to Kumiko, the more she avoids conflict/hurting you, which can include, ironically (but with a certain logic to it), Kumiko distancing herself from you.

Romanticide · 2016-12-20, 01:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by BleedingUranium

Bingo. The closer you get to Kumiko, the more she avoids conflict/hurting you, which can include, ironically (but with a certain logic to it), Kumiko distancing herself from you.

That just makes her seem kinda awful though, tbh.

Flower · 2016-12-20, 01:51

I don't think it is awful. I would say rather it is simple, very common human weakness expressing itself in a way not many are used to.

For what it is worth I very much agree with the evaluation - it really hits me as spot on....

shanimebib · 2016-12-20, 01:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Dafuq is this. Just because romance showed up doesn't mean it's already becoming shoujo.
It's like saying that a series that doesn't have any combat in it has no right to be called shounen. (Flying Witch is an example.)

If this was from a Season 1 interview, then I guess that Shuuichi is starting to bite their ass now that he has to become relevant to the plot now.

When they meant shoujo-esque they literally meant it. As an avid shoujo manga reader, I know exactly what it meant. There is no need for heart-thumping moments or constant blushes in an anime like Hibike! Euphonium, of which the biggest selling points are human interactions and friendship. Once romance is given more focus, it has this tendency to dilute any other substances in the story. There are exceptions like Natsume Yuujinchou but that's pretty rare.

They did a great job pushing it as far as possible. Otherwise it would look like another Ao Haru Ride or Orange for example.

As for the prospective romance between Kumiko and Reina, it never seemed like that to me. I always thought them to be extremely close friends who were drawn to each other because of the differences in their personalities and the mysteriousness of their characters. I was amazed to read Takeda's latest interview because I actually got everything right as she described the personalities and their relationships in it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romanticide

That just makes her seem kinda awful though, tbh.

Shuuichi thinks Kumiko has a very cynical personality. Reina thinks she has a terrible personality. You think she is kinda awful.

Romanticide · 2016-12-20, 01:55

IDK it just seems odd. Like, she seems kinda hypocritical? In season 1 she was, iirc upset she'd hurt reina's feelings or something in the prologue. Orange and Ao Haru Ride seem more unique in the mass of same old shoujo's though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shanimebib

When they meant shoujo-esque they literally meant it. As an avid shoujo manga reader, I know exactly what it meant. There is no need for heart-thumping moments or constant blushes in an anime like Hibike! Euphonium, of which the biggest selling points are human interactions and friendship. Once romance is given more focus, it has this tendency to dilute any other substances in the story. There are exceptions like Natsume Yuujinchou but that's pretty rare.

As for the prospective romance between Kumiko and Reina, it never seemed like that to me. I always thought them to be extremely close friends who were drawn to each other because of the differences in their personalities and the mysteriousness of their characters. I was amazed to read Takeda's latest interview because I actually got everything right as she described the personalities and their relationships in it.

Well, yeah they didn't need it to have all the blushes/etc (mostly why i avoid shoujo), but still they could have developed it more. I mean, i saw it as very prospective, due to the mountain scene. The sensual touching of her face was...well i've never seen that in anything BUT shoujo's, F/F or M/M manga's.

Marcus H. · 2016-12-20, 01:56

Quote:

They did a great job pushing it as far as possible. Otherwise it would look like another Ao Haru Ride or Orange for example.

If it was the actual point of the original story, then I would have no qualms about it.
Hell, one of my expectations in the show were that it would go full shoujo at one point because of the renditions of the cast in the light novel and the manga.

BleedingUranium · 2016-12-20, 02:12

As an extension of my previous post, Kumiko's parallels with Asuka are fairly obvious (I hope), but I think her just-as-significant parallels with Nozomi are even more relevant. Making Reina, and everyone else to some degree, Mizore.

I had once said I found Nozomi rather relatable (a reason I like her), but (as I'd sort of known all along) I also find Asuka and Kumiko relatable as well. Maybe that's part of why I like the show so much, and why all of their interactions make sense to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shanimebib

As for the prospective romance between Kumiko and Reina, it never seemed like that to me. I always thought them to be extremely close friends who were drawn to each other because of the differences in their personalities and the mysteriousness of their characters. I was amazed to read Takeda's latest interview because I actually got everything right as she described the personalities and their relationships in it.

Indeed. Reina was this elusive, amazing, mysterious person Kumiko was drawn to (and similar in reverse), and as of Episode 8 that culminated in a very... unhealthy relationship. One where Kumiko is basically worshipping Reina (to partially steal the phrasing of someone on that linked MAL thread).

Then somewhere right around here Kumiko figures Reina out. She now understands her, and Reina is no longer mysterious and amazing, but is simply her very unique and quirky close friend. We can further see this shift in the relationship to a more healthy/balanced form after Kumiko chats with Taki and gets her phone back. Specifically when Kumiko is going on about how she's rediscovered her love for euphonium, while completely talking over and ignoring Reina's insistence on telling her about hanging out with Taki. That's the moment we see Reina is no longer the super special snowflake that Kumiko worships.

From then on (which is 90% S2 because there wasn't much S1 after this point), Reina is just Reina, and subject to the same standard Kumiko treatment as all of her other friends. Hazuki and Sapphire not having all that much focus or screentime is very deliberate as I see it, because it just further feeds into how Kumiko's social network operated. The difference between them and Reina is the latter is not as okay with this shift. Again, rather like Nozomi, Mizore, Natsuki, and Yuuko, broadly speaking.

I swear I had more to add to this but I'm blanking on what it was. >.>

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romanticide

IDK it just seems odd. Like, she seems kinda hypocritical? In season 1 she was, iirc upset she'd hurt reina's feelings or something in the prologue.

Because very little terrifies Kumiko more than hurting someone, anyone, else's feelings.

Archon_Wing · 2016-12-20, 02:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romanticide

That just makes her seem kinda awful though, tbh.

To be fair, i think she knows better that people just can't handle the truth. Even Asuka, being as mature and intelligent as she is, had a struggle. And then everyone within 10 miles of Reina knew that she was completely incapable of handling the truth at all. Flat out neurotic, it's no wonder why nobody talks to her on the matter.

I think Kumiko did really well.

Romanticide · 2016-12-20, 02:17

Well..then what would she do if she got confessed to, for example? Would she say yes if she wasn't really interested, to avoid hurting someone's feelings? This just raises so many questions.....

Archon_Wing · 2016-12-20, 02:19

The typical... you're a nice person but *blurts out* but I'm sure X would be intrested in you.

But I mean in these cases, there's just more of a reason to minimize contact, because it can never end well.

Romanticide · 2016-12-20, 02:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

The typical... you're a nice person but *blurts out* but I'm sure X would be intrested in you.

But I mean in these cases, there's just more of a reason to minimize contact, because it can never end well.

Ah, good points.

BleedingUranium · 2016-12-20, 02:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

To be fair, i think she knows better that people just can't handle the truth. Even Asuka, being as mature and intelligent as she is, had a struggle. And then everyone within 10 miles of Reina knew that she was completely incapable of handling the truth at all. Flat out neurotic, it's no wonder why nobody talks to her on the matter.

I think Kumiko did really well.

As someone with my own "Reina", same relationship progression and everything (and is also my roommate), can confirm.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romanticide

Well..then what would she do if she got confessed to, for example? Would she say yes if she wasn't really interested, to avoid hurting someone's feelings? This just raises so many questions.....

I am quite certain this was very much addressed last season, when Shuu asked her to the festival. She worries about it while outwardly ignoring it whenever possible, and makes excuses/runs away when forced to deal with it. Excuses and non-answers.

This seems like a relevant time to bring up that I was always impressed with how gently Shuu declined Hazuki asking him out, and how well she took it (at the time). Their little date is a favourite scene of mine.

The hike with Reina only happened because Kumiko grabbed the arm of whoever happened to be coming out of the music room at that moment, and without looking, said she was going with that person.

Marcus H. · 2016-12-20, 02:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

The typical... you're a nice person but *blurts out* but I'm sure X would be intrested in you.

But I mean in these cases, there's just more of a reason to minimize contact, because it can never end well.

"My love for you is dead, but I'm rooting for you."

Archon_Wing · 2016-12-20, 02:32

Heh, the problem is usually people just come to you to vent, and not really listen to you. And then there's the projection, "If you were me, you'd definitely do that! I'm right, you gotta be like that!" It's no surprise Kumiko starts to get into those -_- faces a lot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BleedingUranium

As someone with my own "Reina", same relationship progression and everything (and is also my roommate), can confirm.

And that's why Reina makes me cringe sometimes. But she's still adorable after she gets around back to her senses.

2016-12-20, 01:39	Link #1105
Marcus H. Princess or Plunderer? Join Date: May 2009 Location: the Philippines	Somehow, I understand why people were apprehensive when Saya began to gain roughly an equal amount of screentime as Hotaru in the Dagashi Kashi adaptation when the original manga overwhelms the reader with Hotaru goodness. In a sense, the original sentiment of the author is "fixed" by the production staff, only for the watchers to realize that it only "muddled" the anime with the personal biases of the staff, which inevitably clashes with the natural order of the story. In Dagashi's case, fortunately, the problem isn't as strong, although it seems like even the author implied not liking the direction the anime took. __________________ Continuing: White Sand Aquatope (6/24) and Vanitas S2 (0/12), The Vampire Dies in No Time S2 and Bofuri S2 (3/12). 2021: Restaurant to Another World S2 (3/12), takt Op. Destiny (1/12) and Taisho Maiden Fairy Tale (1/12). 2022: Yuusha Yamemasu (1/12), Kaguya-sama S3, Mob Psycho 100 III (Oct06), Bleach: 1000 Year Blood War (2/13) and Chainsaw Man (6/12). Spring 2023: Yamada-kun to Lv999 no Koi wo Suru, Kuma Kuma Kuma Bear Punch! (4/12), Skip to Loafer, Tonikaku Kawaii S2 (1/12), Otonari ni Ginga (5/12) and Kimi wa Houkago Insomnia (3/13). Contact me on Wikia and MyAnimeList. Anime List Status ~ Watching: 33. Completed: 468. Plan to watch: 39.

2016-12-20, 01:51	Link #1109
Flower Blooming on the mountain Join Date: May 2010 Location: Deep in their roots, all flowers keep the light....	I don't think it is awful. I would say rather it is simple, very common human weakness expressing itself in a way not many are used to. For what it is worth I very much agree with the evaluation - it really hits me as spot on.... __________________

2016-12-20, 01:25	Link #1102
deadite Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2010	She's upftont with everyone else is because they arent close enough. When you are close to Kumiko, Reina and recently Asuka she'll start keeping things from you.

2016-12-20, 01:43	Link #1106
Romanticide Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011	Honestly if Takeda had just let KyoAni do their usual shit, it probably wouldn't be such a problem - the only other instance i can think of is Tamako Market where Mochi wasn't really....developed much, so they had to make a movie to get him and Tamako together, while Midori just gave up. I mean, i liked Hyouka enough, even though it was a "shoujo", i think.

2016-12-20, 02:17	Link #1115
Romanticide Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011	Well..then what would she do if she got confessed to, for example? Would she say yes if she wasn't really interested, to avoid hurting someone's feelings? This just raises so many questions.....