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Old 2015-06-13, 17:47   Link #41
ImperialFlameGod8190
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Originally Posted by Zero Gravity View Post
Yeah, we're really getting the raw end of the deal here. It was also fansubbed in Spanish within days of release, but still no English. Kind of astonishing, actually, given the Geass fanbase in America. But alas, time to accept that the hayday is long gone.
its more like pretty much nobody acknowledges this as Code Geass other then by name. Akito isnt nearly as interesting as lelouch and i think a lot of people are furious by Julius Kingsley myself among them. This is designed to take place between the end of R1 kinda as a transistion but its a poor representation really. If they showed how Kallen and CC were and that maybe you'd get more fanbase but nothing else.
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Old 2015-06-13, 19:50   Link #42
GundamFan0083
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Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190 View Post
its more like pretty much nobody acknowledges this as Code Geass other then by name. Akito isnt nearly as interesting as lelouch and i think a lot of people are furious by Julius Kingsley myself among them. This is designed to take place between the end of R1 kinda as a transistion but its a poor representation really. If they showed how Kallen and CC were and that maybe you'd get more fanbase but nothing else.
I concur.
This smells of a retcon to me.
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Old 2015-06-13, 23:06   Link #43
Kusaja
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Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190 View Post
its more like pretty much nobody acknowledges this as Code Geass other then by name. Akito isnt nearly as interesting as lelouch and i think a lot of people are furious by Julius Kingsley myself among them. This is designed to take place between the end of R1 kinda as a transistion but its a poor representation really. If they showed how Kallen and CC were and that maybe you'd get more fanbase but nothing else.
Beyond our respective thoughts regarding what qualifies as interesting or not, which is a topic where I'd both personally and intellectually disagree with you (further elaboration would require discussing Akito the Exiled with individuals who are willing to talk about the specifics of the story from all three episodes, since knowing the facts is necessary for a serious debate), I think that's a rather flawed representation of the surrounding situation.

One, the fansubbing community has changed a lot within the past few years due to the rise of streaming. In fact, English language fansubbing is almost dead at this point. It's not even necessary most of the time. Crunchyroll, Funimation or even Aniplex do all the real work for translating TV anime into English these days. Real fansubs have become increasingly rare as a result.

In certain cases, which is exactly what applies to Akito the Exiled and other projects that are movies or OVAs with special theatrical screenings or release models (such as Yamato 2199), the Japanese BD discs may include a perfectly good English translation that someone eventually rips whenever they come out. Until that happens, almost nobody will try to translate anything in the meanwhile. Even when there is no official translation coming up on a BD disc, the small handful of active fansub groups tend to be lazy and slow. This happened with the Bodacious Space Pirates movie, where it took more than three or four months for anyone to translate it. The few exceptions are the latest mega-popular properties, but that brings me to the next point.

Two, the underlying reality of the fanbase is closer to what Zero Gravity mentioned. The Code Geass English-language fanbase is clearly not what it was before. The lack of an ongoing TV show makes it a lot harder for people to tune in. Many folks have moved on when it comes to their anime preferences and, as a matter of fact, others do not even like the original show anymore. Even discussion of the old series has significantly died down on this Animesuki board. In addition, all of the delays between the previous releases of Akito have also been a negative factor in the equation since many human beings tend to grow increasingly impatient in this modern world where everyone is in a hurry.

Three, there is certainly another kind of issue concerning the particular story structure of Akito the Exiled too. It seems to be intended to work best when all four (or, to be accurate, five now) chapters can be seen in a row, because there are a number of puzzle pieces that won't make much sense until they can be gathered in one place. This includes the characters as well. There are nuances that careful observers will appreciate (including fans of the director, Kazuki Akane), but the broad strokes haven't been too exciting yet. The pacing has also been rather relaxed and not nearly as fast as that of the TV show. Not everyone will appreciate this kind of storytelling in the first place, regardless of anything else, because change is not always welcome.

Four, I think you're misjudging what the majority of fans worldwide tend to think about the idea of "Julius Kingsley" as things currently stand. By and large, people seem to dig it. The claim that most remaining fans are somehow "angry" about this development is not supported by observing the general behavior of both English-speaking and foreign language communities. In fact, I think that's directly related to why I have seen many more people suddenly asking for an English translation over the past month, as opposed to any remotely significant number of complaints akin to yours. The existence of various foreign language fansubs also supports this (despite their highly variable quality, since the Spanish subs just plain suck). In the end, the Japanese community itself seems to be accepting Akito the Exiled, taking this Chapter 3+4 strategy quite well (even actually talking about the non-Julius topics too, of which there are many), and this makes me glad, since that's the one fanbase that counts in the eyes of the people in charge.

Finally, after actually seeing the third chapter for myself...I think the implied concern about "Julius Kingsley" suddenly breaking continuity and taking over all of Akito the Exiled is not supported by the cold, hard facts of his role in the story. More than anything else, I would describe him as a catalyst: once he does what needs to be done, it's already spent. I could post the translated explanations from the official Code Geass twitter too, where they argue about why this doesn't really break anything important in terms of continuity, but in the end it's all about what each of us is or isn't willing to accept.

PS: Since GundamFan0083 has once again brought up the topic of a retcon...I'd say it probably won't be what he expects.

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Last edited by Kusaja; 2015-06-14 at 00:47.
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Old 2015-06-14, 09:23   Link #44
GundamFan0083
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Sunrise has already done what I expected them to do Kusaija, and that is give Lelouch a role in the new anime that is more than just a cameo.

He's too strong a character to continue Code Geass without him and this new anime more or less proves that.

If Sunrise accepts that, then they will likely retcon R2 in some fashion, be it alternate universe, a Geass power of resurrection, him being the cart driver, or whatever. Sunrise has many options open to them at this point if they wish to continue this franchise.
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Old 2015-06-14, 20:14   Link #45
Kusaja
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Objectively speaking, the known "strength" of Lelouch's character is not necessarily reflected in the specifics of his role here. The bulk of "The Rise and Fall of Julius Kingsley" has already occurred within one chapter of a larger work. His screen time is definitely going to be taking a nosedive after this point. Which is quite reasonable since this isn't his story.

If Sunrise was really so afraid of not having Lelouch around at all times, then he wouldn't be treated like this. He has been left in a position of weakness and impotence when there are still two full chapters remaining. To paraphrase Julius Caesar: he came, he saw, he started to conquer...and then he immediately made a fool out of himself. All Lelouch did was set a ball in motion, yet other people are going to play with it now. Which is kind of important for this one chapter, but not that far from just being a guest appearance in terms of the big picture.

We all know that you certainly don't like the concept of Lelouch doing anything at all here. The thing is, you're treating all of the options as if they were created equal and do not even try to distinguish between the positives and negatives of each, as well as ignoring other possibilities that do not involve the character. It's your own choice, but I don't agree with that view. I think the particular details are extremely important.

They merely gave Lelouch a chance to show up within a time frame (between seasons) where it was rather easy to give the fans a bone. He was still canonically alive and supposedly doing nothing interesting beyond wasting away his life at a school. That's it. But this does not automatically mean he will show up in every single new Code Geass project until the end of time, regardless of the actual circumstances. He will show up in some, I'm sure, but not all of them (nor I do think his presence alone is some sort of sinful thing).

If they do proceed to create a "Code Geass Alternative Universe: The Invasion of Planet Jupiter" or whatever else, I do not see how that "retcons" the end of R2.
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Old 2015-06-14, 21:44   Link #46
GundamFan0083
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Way too many assumptions on your part, Kusaja.
You need to just sit back and wait to see how this plays out.
They have already "poisoned the waters" with Lelouch as Julius Kingsley, what they do from here with him is a moot point.

Sunrise already illustrated they can't have a Code Geass without Lelouch with this series.
It is a done deal, there is nothing to discuss on that point.
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Old 2015-06-14, 22:25   Link #47
Zero Gravity
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Abnormal fixation against certain elements of the plot aside..

If I recall correctly -years and years ago- there was talk about an OVA movie in planning that would be a remake of R2. This was due to the fact that R2 was rushed/ derailed mid season, and the quality of animation had degraded. It was said that it would not ultimately alter any of the eventualities of the series, but it would more gracefully address the plot line.

Personally? I'd welcome a remake of R2, so long as it did not alter any of the major outcomes. And no, that does not mean they would immortalize Lelouch.

Because I'd travel to Japan and personally destroy the animation files if they did.
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Old 2015-06-15, 05:41   Link #48
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^ ahh, I guess then I'd have to be the guy to stop you from even reaching japan.
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Old 2015-06-15, 20:04   Link #49
Kusaja
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Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
They have already "poisoned the waters" with Lelouch as Julius Kingsley, what they do from here with him is a moot point.
On the contrary, I think it's almost the essence of the point. But all the same, we will not find any common ground as long as this remains your premise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero Gravity View Post
If I recall correctly -years and years ago- there was talk about an OVA movie in planning that would be a remake of R2. This was due to the fact that R2 was rushed/ derailed mid season, and the quality of animation had degraded. It was said that it would not ultimately alter any of the eventualities of the series, but it would more gracefully address the plot line.
Well, you can still read the very short ANN news piece on it here. During a large Code Geass event that took place way back in early 2012, they announced that there would be a "Lelouch of the Rebellion" movie, separate from Akito the Exiled. But nothing was ever said about this movie being a "remake" of R2 nor about its contents. We can only imagine.

In fact, they have not provided absolutely any information about this movie after its announcement. Everything has been quiet for the past three years. At this point in time, it might as well be vaporware until proven otherwise...like the Gundam SEED movie. If they're ever going to do anything to follow up on this, then next year would be a good opportunity.
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Old 2015-06-16, 02:44   Link #50
The 48th Ronin
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Oooh... a 10th anniversary project would be nice.

It might decide whether CG would become a metaseries like Gundam.
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Old 2015-06-16, 21:34   Link #51
Zero Gravity
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^ ahh, I guess then I'd have to be the guy to stop you from even reaching japan.
NO! Good character development triumphs! They could not stop me when I waged the great Wikipedia article battle of September 2008...and they won't stop me now! Lelouch must never be allowed to become immortal.

But I digress.
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Old 2015-06-17, 13:39   Link #52
GundamFan0083
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On the contrary, I think it's almost the essence of the point. But all the same, we will not find any common ground as long as this remains your premise.
I'm not interested in opinion, I'm interested in what actually happens.
You already know this about me.

What has happened is that this Code Geass has Lelouch in it, that is undeniable.
So, yes, they already poisoned the waters with this series.
Perhaps if they make another one, he will not be in it at all.
However, that is pure speculation and is irrelevant to Akito, which has Lelouch in it.

Will Lelouch play any more of a role?
That remains to be seen.
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Old 2015-06-17, 14:51   Link #53
konart
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Originally Posted by Kusaja View Post
On the contrary, I think it's almost the essence of the point. But all the same, we will not find any common ground as long as this remains your premise.



Well, you can still read the very short ANN news piece on it here. During a large Code Geass event that took place way back in early 2012, they announced that there would be a "Lelouch of the Rebellion" movie, separate from Akito the Exiled. But nothing was ever said about this movie being a "remake" of R2 nor about its contents. We can only imagine.

In fact, they have not provided absolutely any information about this movie after its announcement. Everything has been quiet for the past three years. At this point in time, it might as well be vaporware until proven otherwise...like the Gundam SEED movie. If they're ever going to do anything to follow up on this, then next year would be a good opportunity.
Wait, we did get two recap movies already, lol.

"Adaptation" is nothing more than that
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Old 2015-06-17, 18:58   Link #54
Kusaja
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Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
I'm not interested in opinion, I'm interested in what actually happens.
You already know this about me.
Unfortunately, this means your interest is restricted to a fraction of what actually happens in this production...and even then only in terms of rejecting the concept behind it, rather than the details. Because, in your personal opinion, Lelouch's presence is poisonous to such an extent that the rest of the project ceases to exist in your eyes. This makes it impossible to talk about any other related topics that you have already considered to be irrelevant.

Simply put, nothing about what is happening here is really "poisonous" to me. I'd be just as glad to be watching this with or without Lelouch. That's not at the root of my mindset.

I am interested in many things about Akito the Exiled, which is why I keep up with the news and look up an increasing amount of information concerning both the in-universe characters and stories as well as the behind-the-scenes aspects of the production. That is why I have posted a few interviews before. I think an informed analysis of the facts and even the development of opinions benefits from this. I'd much rather have a more comprehensive conversation, though obviously certain factors make that hard too (the delays, the death of fansubs, the state of this forum). If there is ever any opportunity to have more flexible and reasonable discussion, I will gladly participate in it.


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Originally Posted by konart View Post
Wait, we did get two recap movies already, lol.

"Adaptation" is nothing more than that
The thing is, those recap movies predate this announcement. Which means they were talking about something else.

I do recall some fan speculation about this being an actual live action movie adaptation, but we have no evidence to support this. I'd doubt it.
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Old 2015-06-17, 19:28   Link #55
GundamFan0083
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Unfortunately, this means your interest is restricted to a fraction of what actually happens in this production...and even then only in terms of rejecting the concept behind it, rather than the details. Because, in your personal opinion, Lelouch's presence is poisonous to such an extent that the rest of the project ceases to exist in your eyes. This makes it impossible to talk about any other related topics that you have already considered to be irrelevant.
This is redundant.
I already made my point yet you keep harping on it, why?
The facts are not up for debate since they are in fact....facts.
Lelouch is in this new series, proving that Sunrise cannot to date make a series without him in it in some measure. Lelouch/Kingsley is not a minor character here, and his presence poisoned the well.

I realize that is difficult for you to accept given your fanaticism and fan-speculation about what you want it to be. However, your opinions in no way effects the truth of what is actually happening in this series: that being that it relied on Lelouch's presence in it to continue the series (sidestory or not).

Deny that all you wish, but the fact is this franchise depends on Lelouch (or some clone of him like Dash).

So yes, it is quite poisonous to any series to have to rely on a character (or some facsimile) that the head writer has killed off.
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Old 2015-06-17, 22:30   Link #56
Kusaja
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This is redundant.
I already made my point yet you keep harping on it, why?
Perhaps you should take a look in the nearest mirror to find the answer and judge yourself. I fear perfection would not be in your reflection.

We do have one undeniable fact here: Lelouch's presence. But finding it to be poisonous or not will always be a matter of opinion and there is a full range of such options. Why? Because the circumstances are not the same and neither are the specific details of his role. It is a fallacy to fully equate things that are different from each other. That is why there is room for more than one stance. Denying this would be utterly narrow-minded and dogmatic. The fact Lelouch's presence does not make S1 and R2 identical in quality should be self-evident. And yet this new project has less in common with either of those two. There are plenty of people who either like it more or like it less, including individuals who weren't necessarily fond of Lelouch himself in the first place.

I am asking for nuance, not fanaticism. I care about the specifics of each situation because the matter deserves more thought than a knee-jerk reaction. Taking the time to reason is always better than the alternative. Which is how my position has, frankly, ended up right in the middle of the two extremes. There is nothing "fanatical" about this, beyond our mutual refusal to agree with each other. Speaking in terms of their portrayal, focus and actual use, the fact is Dash, Julius Kingsley and Lelouch are all similar figures yet far from automatically interchangeable (particularly since Julius is obviously supposed to be a fake personality). It's entirely possible to have different opinions about them as characters and their respective works.

I understand that just seeing someone who looks like Lelouch on screen or the printed page might make your blood boil, because you don't think there is any valid role for him and find his mere presence to be too poisonous for your own enjoyment, but that is not any sort of general "truth" or obligation. Needless to say, that also applies in the opposite direction. People are free to make up their minds either way.

I have indeed speculated about the future, but that has been in response to your own speculations and generalizations. Both of us have biases, yet I am at least trying to have a wider view of the world. I think the events and structure of Akito the Exiled are a better source for extrapolation than an unrelated work like Renya. Speaking of which, I can easily mention Oz, where there is no comparable "Lelouch" presence to speak of and is currently set to run for more manga/photo novel volumes than Renya. Your equation, so to speak, does not account for this.

One last thing: based on your own parting statement, was the head writer horribly contradicting himself as soon as he proceeded to write several short picture dramas or specials right after R2 where Lelouch himself appears? Should nobody other than "fanatics" be able to enjoy them? Are interquels and prequels set in a time period where a dead main character was still alive all destined to be "poisoned" as soon as he shows up?

Last edited by Kusaja; 2015-06-17 at 22:46.
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Old 2015-06-17, 22:42   Link #57
GundamFan0083
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We do have one undeniable fact here: Lelouch's presence.
Then you concede my point by default.
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Old 2015-06-17, 22:56   Link #58
Kusaja
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If this is how you want to take it, that's fine. It's not like we're playing to have the last word, which in any case belongs to the public at large.

Regardless, there should be more interesting subjects to talk about once more people can finally watch this in a language they understand.
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Old 2015-06-17, 23:00   Link #59
GundamFan0083
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Which is precisely why I told you to wait and see.
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Old 2015-06-24, 07:05   Link #60
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