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Old 2014-01-19, 02:20   Link #3601
Ozuma
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@Nishikinomaki

I didn't mean literally "man" I meant as in a bud way. But lol thanks for pointing out you're a girl. :P

Yeah, the anime version better.
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Old 2014-01-19, 02:40   Link #3602
nishikinomaki
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Originally Posted by Ozuma View Post
@Nishikinomaki

I didn't mean literally "man" I meant as in a bud way. But lol thanks for pointing out you're a girl. :P

Yeah, the anime version better.
its ok Ozuma


i out of patient if toei kill athena saori and former pegasus seiya

and they reincarnated in next 200 years again over war never ending

i hope i not gona see hades again or 3 gods poseidon hades ares join force to kill athena and yet they lose again to pegasus






i want them join force lol

if other studio than toei make anime like this is gona be fun.
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Old 2014-01-19, 03:12   Link #3603
Obelisk ze Tormentor
Black Steel Knight
 
 
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Originally Posted by nishikinomaki View Post
if other studio than toei make anime like this is gona be fun.
I agree, it would be interesting and it might be for the better of the franchise to leave TOEI’s simple animation-style they use on SS after the 2000s. LC truly has open my eyes of what non-TOEI studios can do to the franchise animation-wise. There are many studios I have in mind, but one of them is Madhouse which still doing strong with their Hunter x Hunter adaptation in its 112th episode. Gainax is also an interesting choice, and if we want to go crazy, maybe Bones or Kyoani will work too. I mean, just look at how much better-executed Kyoani’s Kanon is compared to TOEI’s Kanon (Kanon the romance series, not Gemini Kanon). Same anime but with different style. You can ask the Kanon-fans of which one to prefer, and many will most likely choose the Kyoani version. Below is the comparison from wiki:
Spoiler for comparison:
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Old 2014-01-19, 03:14   Link #3604
Goty
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
I’m talking more than just animation in my post that you quoted.

It was, but they don’t compromise the story just to make the cloth looks better to sell the action-figures.
Saint Seiya franchise is all about cloth myths, that's pretty much one of the reasons it still lives. LC didn't get it because the cloths were simply not impressive nor it managed to catch the attention of many people.
If the anime had succeeded, there's no doubt there would be LC cloth myths. But...the bad anime rendition of the clothes actually killed its chances.

Quote:
It doesn’t matter if it’s looks good enough and actually represent the original material to some degree (LC OVA is an adaptation anyway). Simple design like Crayon Shin-chan & Kobo-chan can be recognized from the moon but that doesn’t mean it’s pleasing to the eye. What’s wrong with aiming to draw characters just good enough to serve the story but not bad enough to turn off the audience/readers? Like I said, generic art style doesn’t make or break a show.
Christ, you're still failing to understand what's generic and what is original art. Shin-chan's art is amazingly original. Now let's take a look at Lost Canvas' art:



Seriously, how many Tenmas did you see the last year alone? That's the dime a dozen design for anime protagonist. How can you even compare this to Shin-chan's unique style?
This is not simplistic, this is just bland, boring and uninspired.
'How to draw manga" character design may please kids, but for people more experienced with manga and anime, it's just not appealing. You seem to be very impressed by Naruto, so that doesn't surprise me.

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Financial success simply doesn’t equal quality.
And failing doesn't mean it's "underrated" either. Your point?

Quote:
[So, are you saying that dynamic animation doesn't characterized Saint Seiya franchise, but lame animation & still frames do?
That just confirms two things we all know about you: you like grasping at straws and twisting what people says. That's pretty pathetic.
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Old 2014-01-19, 03:43   Link #3605
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Originally Posted by Goty View Post
Saint Seiya franchise is all about cloth myths, that's pretty much one of the reasons it still lives. LC didn't get it because the cloths were simply not impressive nor it managed to catch the attention of many people.
If the anime had succeeded, there's no doubt there would be LC cloth myths. But...the bad anime rendition of the clothes actually killed its chances.
Yes, LC "didn’t get it" because it aims more towards story than cloths, and I actually like that. Also, I already said from beginning that LC is financial bust, you bringing the lack of LC Cloth Myths is just preaching to the choir.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goty View Post
Christ, you're still failing to understand what's generic and what is original art. Shin-chan's art is amazingly original. Now let's take a look at Lost Canvas' art:

Seriously, how many Tenmas did you see the last year alone? That's the dime a dozen design for anime protagonist. How can you even compare this to Shin-chan's unique style?
This is not simplistic, this is just bland, boring and uninspired.
'How to draw manga" character design may please kids, but for people more experienced with manga and anime, it's just not appealing. You seem to be very impressed by Naruto, so that doesn't surprise me.
Wat? I didn’t say Shin-chan is generic. It’s so original that “can be recognized from the moon”, but I know a lot of people who hate it and drop the show because of it. Again, I don’t see what’s wrong with aiming to draw characters just good enough to serve the story but not bad enough to turn off the audience/readers. My point is: generic art doesn’t make-or-break a series. For example, look at how commercially successful Infinite Stratos is with its run-of-the-mill character-art for harem series. It’s more subjective than objective anyway.

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Originally Posted by Goty View Post
And failing doesn't mean it's "underrated" either. Your point?
One example: Shinsekai Yori anime is a failure in almost every commercial way as far as I know (even in artwork), but those who have watched it knows that it has a killer story (See Animesuki nomination awards if you don’t believe me). So, my point is: sometimes, a series with good story and execution is destined to fail. Doesn’t mean that “series” is truly of low quality story-wise. And in LC’s case, I find the animation and battle-execution to be a winner too. YMMV

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Originally Posted by Goty View Post
That just confirms two things we all know about you: you like grasping at straws and twisting what people says. That's pretty pathetic.
Wow, resorting to name-calling now? No I didn’t. You said “in every regards” (or things like that), meaning the anime’s every element isn’t it? That should also includes the animation (in this case, LC's relatively well-done animation).
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Old 2014-01-19, 04:12   Link #3606
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
Yes, LC "didn’t get it" because it aims more towards story than cloths, and I actually like that Also, I already said from beginning that LC is financial bust, you bringing the lack of LC Cloth Myths is just preaching to the choir.
The story in any Saint Seiya never revolved around the cloths. But like it or not, they ARE a major part of the franchise, it's one of the things that made SS what it is. It's impossible to ignore it.

Quote:
Wat? I didn’t say Shin-chan is generic. It’s so original that “can be recognized from the moon”, but I know a lot of people who hate it and drop the show because of it. Again, I don’t see what’s wrong with aiming to draw characters just good enough to serve the story but not bad enough to turn off the audience/readers. My point is: generic art doesn’t make-or-break a series.
You brought up a very original character design to defend generic art style. It didn't make sense. Those are different situations, even people who hate Shin-chan will admit the art is unique, if they understand what they're talking about.
Anyway, LC didn't make the job very well, as its generic art style did turn me off, and obviously i wasn't the only one. For someone who grew up with Shingo Araki's designs, seeing Saint Seiya done in 'how to draw manga" style can be a massive disappointment.
Why do you think Next Dimension, as bad as it is, always sold much better than LC?

Quote:
For example, look at how commercially successful Infinite Stratos is with its run-of-the-mill character-art for harem series. It’s more subjective than objective anyway.
That's where i disagree, while like or hate a distinct art style is entirely up to personal tastes, being "bland" or 'generic" is a different matter. I doubt the people who like Infinite Stratos do it because of its "original art".

Quote:
One example: Shinsekai Yori anime is a failure in almost every commercial way as far as I know (even in artwork), but those who have watched it knows that it has a killer story (See Animesuki nomination awards if you don’t believe me). So, my point is: sometimes, a series with good story and execution is destined to fail. Doesn’t mean that “series” is truly of low quality story-wise. And in LC’s case, I find the animation and battle-execution to be a winner too. YMMV
But that's the thing, story and execution are too subjective, that's why i'm not elaborating on aspects like those.
And there's no rule when it comes to success: you can think LC is underrated, i think it failed deservedly.

The problem here is, look at the first post of this thread. LC fans were hating on Omega even before the series started, because somehow they thought LC was cancelled thanks to Omega, what is nonsensical for so many reasons.
Then Omega gets a 2nd season, adding insult to the injury.

Quote:
Wow, resorting to name-calling now? No I didn’t. You said “in every regards” (or things like that), meaning the anime’s every element isn’t it? That should also includes the animation (in this case, LC's relatively well-done animation).
Because it's annoying to see your words being distorted. I said everything screams generic, but what exactly would be "generic animation"? You know what i meant.
Anyway, it's good that you think it's "relatively well-done", i thought you were acting like LC was the pinnacle of animation.

Last edited by Goty; 2014-01-19 at 04:23.
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Old 2014-01-19, 04:53   Link #3607
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Originally Posted by Goty View Post
The story in any Saint Seiya never revolved around the cloths. But like it or not, they ARE a major part of the franchise, it's one of the things that made SS what it is. It's impossible to ignore it.
IMO LC didn’t totally ignore it. Instead, they merely not focusing on it, which you can count as a bad decision commercial-wise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goty View Post
You brought up a very original character design to defend generic art style. It didn't make sense. Those are different situations, even people who hate Shin-chan will admit the art is unique, if they understand what they're talking about.
Anyway, LC didn't make the job very well, as its generic art style did turn me off, and obviously i wasn't the only one. For someone who grew up with Shingo Araki's designs, seeing Saint Seiya done in 'how to draw manga" style can be a massive disappointment.
I brought Shin-chan to show you that even an original art doesn’t automatically mean a good thing for any animation. Speaking from personal experience, many anime-fans I know don’t like the Shin-chan’s character-art at all, most of them follow the series for the jokes and comedy alone. Also, I’m hardly the only one who’s not turned off by the generic art style of LC.

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Originally Posted by Goty View Post
Why do you think Next Dimension, as bad as it is, always sold much better than LC?
I already said that LC is not exactly a commercial role-model of SS franchise, but I still like what it does.

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Originally Posted by Goty View Post
That's where i disagree, while like or hate a distinct art style is entirely up to personal tastes, being "bland" or 'generic" is a different matter. I doubt the people who like Infinite Stratos do it because of its "original art".
And that, buddy, is my point that “generic art doesn’t make-or-break a series”. I know many people who think IS’s art style is bland, but they follow it for the fanservice, harem shenanigans, and mecha action.


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Originally Posted by Goty View Post
But that's the thing, story and execution are too subjective, that's why i'm not elaborating on aspects like those.
And there's no rule when it comes to success: you can think LC is underrated, i think it failed deservedly.
Who said you have to follow me in acknowledging LC being underrated? You are free to think what you want about LC. I said it’s underrated to counter Ozuma saying it’s overrated. I’m not aiming to change Ozuma’s mind either, simply to point out that his opinion is not the absolute truth.

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Originally Posted by Goty View Post
The problem here is, look at the first post of this thread. LC fans were hating on Omega even before the series started, because somehow they thought LC was cancelled thanks to Omega, what is nonsensical for so many reasons.
Then Omega gets a 2nd season, adding insult to the injury.
And why do you have to go back that far, when that misunderstanding is already cleared in the first two pages? If I see some LC-fans who still don’t get it and spouting that same BS in this thread, I’ll correct them myself like what I already did too Jehuty or whathisname some pages ago if you still remember it?

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Originally Posted by Goty View Post
Because it's annoying to see your words being distorted. I said everything screams generic, but what exactly would be "generic animation"? You know what i meant.
"Generic animation" means uninspired and dull movements of both characters, angles, cinematography, and other moving parts in animation (and don’t forget relying too much on stills) which Inferno & Elysion are prime example of (or even worse than that).

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Originally Posted by Goty View Post
Anyway, it's good that you think it's "relatively well-done", i thought you were acting like LC was the pinnacle of animation.
Pfft, I never considered LC the pinnacle of animation by a longshot. My standard is usually Ghibli-high. But at least I know a well-done animation with lots of moving parts, shadows, good angles and nicely-drawn background when I see it, and LC is such a series. Inferno & Elysion, on the other hand, is an abomination aside from the shiny and well-drawn stills.
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Old 2014-01-19, 06:10   Link #3608
Goty
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Ok, first replying to Ozuma's post that i missed earlier:

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Originally Posted by Ozuma View Post
@Nishmonmaki
On other forum I went to I'm got me some surprise. Instead of what happened in the anime with the Athena Exclamation being stopped by Seiya, Shiryu, Shun and Hyoga it turns out Shiryu tanked that shit all by himself. 0_0

Not saying that it doesn't add to his badassery but eh I liked the scene in the anime:
The scene plays differently in the manga. Instead of blowing up the AE, Shiryu simply joins Mu and co's side in the attack, so his Cosmo, even if small compared to the others, ruins the perfect balance between 3 vs 3 Gold Saints that was making it a stalemate.

I remember some people disliked that change, as it implies the four of them are stronger than six Gold Saints combined...but at that point, i think it wasn't so absurd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
IMO LC didn’t totally ignore it. Instead, they merely not focusing on it, which you can count as a bad decision commercial-wise.
And i didn't say they ignored it, my point was that cloths were never the absolute focus in any SS incarnation, but it is a major aspect of the franchise all the same. They just were not made justice in LC imo.

Quote:
I brought Shin-chan to show you that even an original art doesn’t automatically mean a good thing for any animation. Speaking from personal experience, many anime-fans I know don’t like the Shin-chan’s character-art at all, most of them follow the series for the jokes and comedy alone.
Look how successful Shin-chan is. 20+ years and still going strong.
Would it get the same amount of attention if it had a generic, run-of-the-mill art? I doubt it. The surreal art style of Shin-chan is a huge part of its mood and humor. It simply wouldn't be the same series if Shin-chan looked like "LN protagonist B".

Quote:
Also, I’m hardly the only one who’s not turned off by the generic art style of LC.
Seems to be a minority though.
Next Dimension may be bad, but it has a lot of the "heart" i feel LC missed, and more of what fans who grew up with SS expect to see. That's why i think it does better.

Quote:
And that, buddy, is my point that “generic art doesn’t make-or-break a series”. I know many people who think IS’s art style is bland, but they follow it for the fanservice, harem shenanigans, and mecha action.
Yes, what makes a series for some people isn't an original art style, but fanservice and harem shenanigans instead. Good for them, but that's just bad taste.


Quote:
Who said you have to follow me in acknowledging LC being underrated? You are free to think what you want about LC. I said it’s underrated to counter Ozuma saying it’s overrated. I’m not aiming to change Ozuma’s mind either, simply to point out that his opinion is not the absolute truth.
Then we're fine. I don't think it's either overrated or underrated.

Quote:
And why do you have to go back that far, when that misunderstanding is already cleared in the first two pages?
That wasn't the point. I was showing how LC fans tend to be biased against other SS incarnations even when they still don't know nothing about it. I saw that a lot.

Quote:
"Generic animation" means uninspired and dull movements of both characters, angles, cinematography, and other moving parts in animation (and don’t forget relying too much on stills) which Inferno & Elysion are prime example of (or even worse than that).
That's not 'generic animation", most things you've mentioned are up to the directing and storyboard.

Quote:
Pfft, I never considered LC the pinnacle of animation by a longshot. My standard is usually Ghibli-high. But at least I know a well-done animation with lots of moving parts, shadows, good angles and nicely-drawn background when I see it, and LC is such a series. Inferno & Elysion, on the other hand, is an abomination aside from the shiny and well-drawn stills.
Eh, but you always sounded like LC's "dynamic animation" were so stand out-ish.
The animation was ok, the expected from an ova. Yes, Inferno and Elysios were ovas too, but there were reasons for its low budget, mostly Tenkai-hen bombing.

The bottom line is, good and creative directing/writing can make an anime (or an episode) great even if there's no budget for animation. There are many old series that hold strong to this day.
In the same vein, something beautifully animated can be all style and zero substance.

Those ovas are so divisive because the directing wasn't inspired. They were too worried adapting the manga as faithfully as possible, unlike the Hades Sanctuary arc.

Last edited by Goty; 2014-01-19 at 07:02.
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Old 2014-01-19, 07:14   Link #3609
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Originally Posted by Goty View Post
Look how successful Shin-chan is. 20+ years and still going strong.
Would it get the same amount of attention if it had a generic, run-of-the-mill art? I doubt it. The surreal art style of Shin-chan is a huge part of its mood and humor. It simply wouldn't be the same series if Shin-chan looked like "LN protagonist B".
Most gag anime is going strong by their comedy, not chara art. Beside Shin-chan, look at Kobo-chan, Kochikame, Bakabon, and many others. Shin-chan has distinctive chara-art, yes, but that doesn’t mean audience won’t appreciate a nicer art (like Kochikame for example) if they given the choice.

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Originally Posted by Goty View Post
Seems to be a minority though.
Sometimes, it's good to be a minority or in limited group of understanding people especially involving something that you like :P.

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Originally Posted by Goty View Post
Yes, what makes a series for some people isn't an original art style, but fanservice and harem shenanigans instead. Good for them, but that's just bad taste.
Pfft, I merely giving you one example. I don't like the fanservice & harem shenanigans in IS either. By no means it's a standard for every other anime with generic chara-art.

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Originally Posted by Goty View Post
That wasn't the point. I was showing how LC fans tend to be biased against other SS incarnations even when they still don't know nothing about it. I saw that a lot.
And to be fair, did you know how biased a certain group of SS-fans tend to toward LC? I still remember some long pages ago some certain posters are calling LC as BL-garbage (or something in the same vine). I didn't bring that up because we (should) all know that haters will blindly hates.

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Originally Posted by Goty View Post
That's not 'generic animation", most things you've mentioned are up to the directing and storyboard.
When I said “animation” I mean all those divisions combined that bring us the moving picture on the screen. The result, if lackluster and uninspired, can still be called “generic animation”.

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Originally Posted by Goty View Post
Eh, but you always sounded like LC's "dynamic animation" were so stand out-ish.
The animation was ok, the expected from an ova. Yes, Inferno and Elysios were ovas too, but there were reasons for its low budget, mostly Tenkai-hen bombing.
You said LC OVA animation is “ok as expected from OVA”, but right after that, you make excuses behind the scenes when it comes to the lackluster Inferno & Elysion animation? If that’s your approach, might as well make excuses for every lackluster OVA animation under the sun. What we see on the screen is what I'm talking about (Some consideration involving the technology of the time it was made is ok though). When you’re asked to describe the color of a red wall, you should say it’s red (or how red it is), not giving excuses of how it becomes red.

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Originally Posted by Goty View Post
The bottom line is, good and creative directing/writing can make an anime (or an episode) great even if there's no budget for animation. There are many old series that hold strong to this day.
In the same vein, something beautifully animated can be all style and zero substance.

Those ovas are so divisive because the directing wasn't inspired. They were too worried adapting the manga as faithfully as possible, unlike the Hades Sanctuary arc.
Thanks for stating the obvious. I just so happen to think LC excels both in story, animation and the overall execution (minus some flaws) compared to Inferno & Elysion. Inferno & Elysion have nothing on LC aside from pretty faces & cloths. Counting out all the commercial "smart choices" they did not take, It's a pretty solid series on its own. That's my take on it.


Your other points that I didn't quote is pretty much more about personal opinions & taste, so replying to it will go nowhere. So I might as well not doing it.
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Last edited by Obelisk ze Tormentor; 2014-01-19 at 07:26.
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Old 2014-01-19, 07:38   Link #3610
Galaxian
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Originally Posted by AGear2Ax View Post
They say that? Hyperion doesn't appear in the preview and I heard Aegeon instead of Hyperion lol
Nope, the summary says Hyperion and his VA is in next week's cast list.
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Old 2014-01-19, 07:40   Link #3611
Goty
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
Most gag anime is going strong by their comedy, not chara art. Beside Shin-chan, look at Kobo-chan, Kochikame, Bakabon, and many others. Shin-chan has distinctive chara-art, yes, but that doesn’t mean audience won’t appreciate a nicer art (like Kochikame for example) if they given the choice.
I say it's no coincidence all these series have peculiar art styles.
As i said, the visuals are a fundamental part of them. You can't picture Shin-chan or Kochikame working with average art style, especially having the same success, deep down you know it's just impossible to separate things.

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Sometimes, it's good to be a minority especially involving something that you like :P.
You seemed proud to announce you wasn't "the only one', though...

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Pfft, I merely giving you one example. I don't like the fanservice & harem shenanigans in IS either. By no means it's a standard for every other anime with generic chara-art.
Using fanservice and harem as examples of things that make up for bland designs....didn't help your case, really.

Anyway, it's a given that pretty much every fanservicey series have standard visuals (as the average Japanese otaku is comfortable with them), which doesn't exactly help the defense of generic designs either.

Quote:
And to be fair, did you know how biased a certain group of SS-fans tend to toward LC? I still remember some long pages ago some certain posters are calling LC as BL-garbage (or something in the same vine). I didn't bring that up because we (should) all know that haters will blindly hates.
At least LC is already out, and there wasn't much buzz before it was released.
It's different from waiting for something with a predetermined (and bitter) point of view about it.

Quote:
When I said “animation” I mean all those divisions combined that bring us the moving picture on the screen. The result, if lackluster and uninspired, can still be called “generic animation”.
That's simplifying things too much for my tastes, you can't call everything you see on screen "animation", as there are many aspects behind it.
You can have great animation done over a lackluster storyboard. Or bad and lazy directing putting a good budget and animation to waste. Those are all different things.

Quote:
You said LC OVA animation is “ok as expected from OVA”, but right after that, you make excuses behind the scenes when it comes to the lackluster Inferno & Elysion animation? If that’s your approach, might as well make excuses for every lackluster OVA animation under the sun. What we see on the screen is what I'm talking about. When you’re asked to describe the color of a red wall, you should say it’s red (or how red it is), not giving excuses of how it becomes red.
Now that's a ridiculous generalization. That wasn't an excuse, it's a fact. If LC had a 3rd season done with a lower budget, due to the bad sales, i would cut them some slack all the same. If it was a tv show and not an ova, it should be seen accordingly, too.
Which means that, unlike you think, we have to take in mind the whole picture (such as age/media/format) when judging an anime animation. Unless you're one of those uninformed people who think long-running series should have the same budget per episode an one cour show does, for instance.

By your amusing 'red wall" logic, it would make sense comparing a Pokemon episode and a Ghibli movie. Or else i'm just 'making excuses"...

Last edited by Kotohono; 2014-01-19 at 09:06. Reason: Try to be a bit more civil please
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Old 2014-01-19, 08:26   Link #3612
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goty View Post
I say it's no coincidence all these series have peculiar art styles.
As i said, the visuals are a fundamental part of them. You can't picture Shin-chan or Kochikame working with average art style, especially having the same success, deep down you know it's just impossible to separate things.
I can. I can picture a normal looking kid (for Shin-chan) when it's not in "comedy mode" but turning chibi or distorted when in "comedy mode" kinda like Sora no Otoshimono. The same thing can also be applied to average-looking MC in Kochikame. About the success, we can all hypothesized and argue until the end of days without reaching conclusion, so I choose not to.

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Originally Posted by Goty View Post
You seemed proud to announce you wasn't "the only one', though...
Minority is not necessarily alone. Just a minor group of understanding people will do. I don't strive to be "the only one". What do you think I am? Highlander?

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Originally Posted by Goty View Post
Using fanservice and harem as examples of things that make up for bland designs....didn't help your case, really.

Anyway, it's a given that pretty much every fanservicey series have standard visuals (as the average Japanese otaku is comfortable with them), which doesn't exactly help the defense of generic designs either.
There’s more example if you want. For example: Last Exile. Aside from some eccentric characters like Dio and his “alien” kind, the chara-art for the MC and other supporting (human) characters are pretty much bland and generic. But it was loved due to its good story, visuals, aerial battles, character interactions and so on.

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Originally Posted by Goty View Post
At least LC is already out, and there wasn't much buzz before it was released.
It's different from waiting for something with a predetermined (and bitter) point of view about it.
Now you’re just making excuses for those LC-haters, biased is biased and hating is hating no matter how you cut it. I don’t know what those who hates Omega before it airs is thinking since I’m not one of them and I don’t share the sentiment at the time (aside of one misunderstanding).

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Originally Posted by Goty View Post
That's simplifying things too much for my tastes, you can't call everything you see on screen "animation", as there are many aspects behind it.
You can have great animation done over a lackluster storyboard. Or bad and lazy directing putting a good budget and animation to waste. Those are all different things.
Well, sorry if I don't meet your "taste" as that's not what I aim for. I just choose to judge the overall result. Do you really expect me to explain one division after another just to say that what we see on-screen is bad, when one can easily see what’s wrong and tell it in a simpler way like: not much movements, the angle they use is monotone, too many stills, etc.

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Originally Posted by Goty View Post
Now that's a ridiculous generalization. That wasn't an excuse, it's a fact. If LC had a 3rd season done with a lower budget, due to the bad sales, i would cut them some slack all the same. If it was a tv show and not an ova, it should be seen accordingly, too.
Which means that, unlike you think, we have to take in mind the whole picture (such as age/media/format) when judging an anime animation. Unless you're one of those uninformed people who think long-running series should have the same budget per episode an one cour show does, for instance.

By your amusing 'red wall" logic, it would make sense comparing a Pokemon episode and a Ghibli movie. Or else i'm just 'making excuses"...
Note that I was comparing OVA to another OVA, not “OVA vs. TV series”, or “one-cour series vs long-running series”, or (like your outrageous example) “Ghibli movie vs. Pokemon episode”. Just tell the animation in Inferno & Elysion for what it is: too many stills, too many one-two animation, bad fight choreography, etc.
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Last edited by Kotohono; 2014-01-19 at 09:06. Reason: Don't fan the flame please
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Old 2014-01-19, 08:55   Link #3613
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
I can. I can picture a normal looking kid (for Shin-chan) when it's not in "comedy mode" but turning chibi or distorted when in "comedy mode" kinda like Sora no Otoshimono. The same think also applied to average-looking MC in Kochikame.
If you can and you seriously think that would give the same result, then it's a moot point: i guess you're simply not very familiar with Shin-chan's unique (and weird) sense of humor, that runs parallel to its designs. Or not aware that Kochikame's trademark are his freaking huge eyebrows, and how the humor often builds up from his looks.

Great manga authors, like Akira Toriyama and Eiichiro Oda, have a saying that a memorable character starts with a design that can be recognized by its silhouette alone. But who they think they are? They must be wrong and you're right.

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There’s more example if you want. For example: Last Exile. Aside from some eccentric characters like Dio and his “alien” kind, the chara-art for the MC and other supporting (human) characters are pretty much bland and generic.
What? Laxt Exile's designer is Range Murata, whose style i can easily identify. Character designs can be fairly "modest" and still stand out.
And for its time (2003), the designs were hardly run-of-the-mill.

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Now you’re just making excuses for those LC-haters, biased is biased and hating is hating no matter how you cut it. I don’t know what those who hates Omega before it airs is thinking since I’m not one of them and I don’t share the sentiment at the time (aside of one misunderstanding).
I never said you are. I'm saying criticism is generally more justifiable when there is not a prejudgement.

Quote:
Well, sorry if I don't meet your "taste" as that's not what I aim for. I just choose to judge the overall result. Do you really expect me to explain one division after another just to say that what we see on-screen is bad, when one can easily see what’s wrong and tell it in a simpler way like: not much movements, the angle they use is monotone, too many stills, etc.
No need to make it more complicated than it is. But you often sound like you are mixing animation with directing, for instance, which is a pretty major misstep. When you talk about lazy use of angles, for example, that is leaving pure "animation" territory.

Quote:
Note that I was comparing OVA to another OVA, not “OVA vs. TV series”, or “one-cour series vs long-running series”, or (like your outrageous example) “Ghibli movie vs. Pokemon episode”. Just tell the animation in Inferno & Elysion for what it is: too many stills, too many one-two animation, bad fight choreography, etc.
The red wall analogy you used (see it by what it is) generalized it though, implying you have to ignore the big picture. The "outrageous" example was just to illustrate your line of thinking and why it doesn't work.

Last edited by Kotohono; 2014-01-19 at 09:06. Reason: Try to be a bit more civil please
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Old 2014-01-19, 10:07   Link #3614
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On the note of Omega's power inconsistencies, those plague the Saint Seiya franchise as a whole. Cassios overpower Shun and Shiryu in the original, Pandora overpowering a 7th sense Tenma in LC, Shun being useless in ND.

The best way to explain the inconsistencies in the franchise is by looking at the 12 Houses arc, in both the original and in Omega. Both Mu and Kiki told the Bronze Saints that to win, they only needed to become stronger than their opponents for a brief instant, and that's pretty much how most of the fights in the franchise go when it's a hero fighting a villain that is suppose to be stronger than him.

LC showed a lot of Gold Saints fighting off mid-ranked Specters, who neither get swap down like grunt nor put up a challenge like the Judges, Titans, and 1st Rank Pallasites.

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Last edited by Daniel E.; 2014-01-20 at 02:43.
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Old 2014-01-19, 10:15   Link #3615
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LC showed a lot of Gold Saints fighting off mid-ranked Specters, who neither get swap down like grunt nor put up a challenge like the Judges, Titans, and 1st Rank Pallasites.
Umm.. what does that mean? Do you mean the LC Gold Saint are only facing fairly easy opponents?
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Old 2014-01-19, 10:37   Link #3616
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To get back to Omega...

I thought episode 87 was pretty good, but there's one thing that bothered me a lot. Shiryu, Fudo and Kiki barely even fought against Hyperion before deciding to use the Athena Exclamation. Isn't Saint Seiya all about surpassing your limits to defeat stronger opponents? They didn't even try and resorted to a forbidden cheat code right away. That's completely against the spirit of the series.
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Old 2014-01-19, 10:56   Link #3617
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Surpassing your limit is only when you are still a bronze. When you are a gold saint your aim then becomes dying as quickly and in the most spectacular way you can while saying you leave your thoughts and dreams with the young generation.

Look at Kanon, it didn't seem necessary that he had to go straight to throwing himself against Wyvern in that last battle when he was clearly owning him in the previous battles....
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Old 2014-01-19, 11:11   Link #3618
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
To get back to Omega...

I thought episode 87 was pretty good, but there's one thing that bothered me a lot. Shiryu, Fudo and Kiki barely even fought against Hyperion before deciding to use the Athena Exclamation. Isn't Saint Seiya all about surpassing your limits to defeat stronger opponents? They didn't even try and resorted to a forbidden cheat code right away. That's completely against the spirit of the series.
Because the staff decided to do that for the sake of them doing the Athena Exclamation I'm still thinking that they have become pyrite saints.

The only thing I don't get is that next ep it seems that Miller is stronger than Gallia. When Ikki appeared to fight Miller, Aegeon was all like: "If there's somebody who can defeat Miller, it would be Ikki". Somehow that implies that Miller isn't stronger than a class-1 pallasite. And if Miller is stronger than a class-1 pallasite, why he will obey what Europa says to him? Does it mean that Europa is even stronger despite being a class-2 pallasite? or Does it mean that Miller has an Achilles' heel?
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Old 2014-01-19, 11:28   Link #3619
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Because the staff decided to do that for the sake of them doing the Athena Exclamation I'm still thinking that they have become pyrite saints.

The only thing I don't get is that next ep it seems that Miller is stronger than Gallia. When Ikki appeared to fight Miller, Aegeon was all like: "If there's somebody who can defeat Miller, it would be Ikki". Somehow that implies that Miller isn't stronger than a class-1 pallasite. And if Miller is stronger than a class-1 pallasite, why he will obey what Europa says to him? Does it mean that Europa is even stronger despite being a class-2 pallasite? or Does it mean that Miller has an Achilles' heel?
Well, it's implied that Miller and Europa are not Pallasites, like Aegeon, Gallia, Hyperion and Titan. They serve an "unknown" god who does not wish to be known now. Maybe Europa was there to remind him that it isn't the right time.

Last edited by AkitoW013; 2014-01-19 at 15:02.
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Old 2014-01-19, 12:41   Link #3620
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What Akito said. I think we're seeing some over-analysis in regards to the power-levels. Other friends on another forum I go to are pretty much the epitome of quantifying and they haven't seen anything that comes across as inconsistent.
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