Karl Rove Leaving The White House

[Kaioshin Sama]

The Shadow President has decided to call it quits.

The question now is who is Bush supposed to listen to now and will it help him to actually make informed decisions for the last year of his presidency. As far as any political analyst such as myself could tell from all the secrecy around Bush Adminstration decision making, Karl Rove had so much influence over the President that he might as well have been that Evil Grand Vizier you always see hanging around those Boy Sultans whispering into their ears and immediately being echoed by the so called leader who's just a figurehead. In other words he was the real one calling the shots and as I said the Shadow President.

This could very well be the first step towards fixing the currently and arguably (in my view) broken executive branch of the United States.

[Aoie_Emesai]

Bush can at least now make some informed decisions w/o playing puppet to all of us now. It's not Bush can make any more great comebacks before his presidency ends. How long does Bush have... 4 1/2 more months?

Personally all the branches feel like they're corrupted one way or another. I understand for secrecy sake, but when they go overboard and start laundering mass amount of weapon and money in which they can't track cause of loss in information or human error, that gets pretty horrible.

Ex. ugghhh... dammit the link is now broken. Lets go search google now.

ok found it --> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...080501299.html

[ComradeKilroy]

While Rove is gone, I don't think Bush is going to change that much because Bush has a tendency to be pretty stubborn and Rove has already directed the Administration in his direction. Also I think he's only leaving because he wants to get as far away from the Valerie Plame scandal and attorney firings as possible.

[nanafan]

i feel stupid but i have to ask what's the valerie plame scandal? i only know about gonzalez's hearing that's about it..

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Aoie_Emesai

Bush can at least now make some informed decisions w/o playing puppet to all of us now. It's not Bush can make any more great comebacks before his presidency ends. How long does Bush have... 4 1/2 more months?

Personally all the branches feel like they're corrupted one way or another. I understand for secrecy sake, but when they go overboard and start laundering mass amount of weapon and money in which they can't track cause of loss in information or human error, that gets pretty horrible.

Ex. ugghhh... dammit the link is now broken. Lets go search google now.

ok found it --> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...080501299.html

This was explained on the Daily Show:

Iraq is shaped like a magicians hat and they got lost in a spatial distortion somewhere around the River Tigris, East, South, And, North. If they look there they're sure to find the weapons of mass destruction. (Okay the part after the Magician's Hat part was all my explanation, but your get the picture)

Originally Posted by Nanafan

i feel stupid but i have to ask what's the valerie plame scandal? i only know about gonzalez's hearing that's about it.

The Plame Affair(or as I like to call it the Blame Affair) goes back to when Valerie Plame's husband, Joe Wilson, collaborated with a New York Times Article entitled "What I Didn't Find In Africa", giving them information about the lack of weapons of mass destruction found in Africa, which was an unpopular idea at the time with the Bush Adminstration. As retribution Senior Bush Adminstration officials including Dick Armitage and Lewis "Scooter" Libby leaked her name (a topic that shouldn't even come up normally and should never be discussed in any case even if it somehow did) to various journalist outlets such as Bob Novak's column and Hardball with Tim Russert. As a result her cover was blown and she could no longer work as a CIA operative. A Class Action Lawsuit followed in which everybody tried to pin the blame on everybody (essentially) and reports went as far as Karl Rove ordering the leak himself. Anyway Libby was indicted and convicted of the offences of Obstruction of Justice, Two counts of Perjury and one count of making false statements to federal investigators (all major and extremely serious offences even one of which is career ending) and sentenced to 30 months in prison, a $250,000 fine and Two years of supervised release (Probation), including 400 hours of community service. He was of course pardoned by Bush (for the jail time) as it was a "horrible injustice" (unlike all the executions he approved as Governor of Texas). And that's basically the Plame affair in a nutshell.

[hooliganj]

A few corrections: Joe Wilson wasn't looking for WMDs but rather their ingredients - that is to say he was sent to find evidence that Iraq had sold plutonium to Nigeria.

IIRC, Russert was one of the reporters leaked to, but to his credit he didn't run the story until after the papers had already covered it, and then his angle was that the Times had outed a CIA operative. He didn't reveal he had also been told until the investigation into the leak began.

I could be wrong, but I don't believe the lawsuit was ever opened up to a class action - Plame was the only one actually wronged. As intimidating as the words "class action lawsuit" can be, they carry a distinct meaning; multiple parties must be suing the same defendant for the same reason, and a judge must allow those cases to consolidate into one. For that matter, I don't remember any civil suit being filed - the charges that were brought were criminal.

Also, Bush didn't pardon Libby, he commuted the sentence, removing the need for Libby to do jail time, but leaving the mark on his record. The difference may be cosmetic, but it is there.

Finally, the governor of Texas doesn't approve executions. People are executed by the order of the judicial branch of the government. While it is true that the governor has the power to stop executions, and he never did, that doesn't necessarily mean that he lent his personal stamp of approval. Note that the President of the United States can also order a stay of execution in many cases - so if your belief is that not stopping it equals approval, then Clinton is just as guilty as Bush.

The Plame Scandal is pretty serious business, revealing horrendously unethical and criminal behavior in the White House.

As for the main topic here - I can only hope this is the last we see of Karl Rove. Sadly, the timing of the announcement leads me to believe that he has merely found his next golden ticket, and in the months to come we will find out which of the Republican candidates he has chosen to work for.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by hooliganj

A few corrections: Joe Wilson wasn't looking for WMDs but rather their ingredients - that is to say he was sent to find evidence that Iraq had sold plutonium to Nigeria.

IIRC, Russert was one of the reporters leaked to, but to his credit he didn't run the story until after the papers had already covered it, and then his angle was that the Times had outed a CIA operative. He didn't reveal he had also been told until the investigation into the leak began.

I could be wrong, but I don't believe the lawsuit was ever opened up to a class action - Plame was the only one actually wronged. As intimidating as the words "class action lawsuit" can be, they carry a distinct meaning; multiple parties must be suing the same defendant for the same reason, and a judge must allow those cases to consolidate into one. For that matter, I don't remember any civil suit being filed - the charges that were brought were criminal.

Also, Bush didn't pardon Libby, he commuted the sentence, removing the need for Libby to do jail time, but leaving the mark on his record. The difference may be cosmetic, but it is there.

Finally, the governor of Texas doesn't approve executions. People are executed by the order of the judicial branch of the government. While it is true that the governor has the power to stop executions, and he never did, that doesn't necessarily mean that he lent his personal stamp of approval. Note that the President of the United States can also order a stay of execution in many cases - so if your belief is that not stopping it equals approval, then Clinton is just as guilty as Bush.

The Plame Scandal is pretty serious business, revealing horrendously unethical and criminal behavior in the White House.

As for the main topic here - I can only hope this is the last we see of Karl Rove. Sadly, the timing of the announcement leads me to believe that he has merely found his next golden ticket, and in the months to come we will find out which of the Republican candidates he has chosen to work for.

Thanks for the clarification. I meant to say executions he oversaw as Governor, meaning those that occured during his presidency, which were abnormally high and with few pardons.

Logically he would probably choose Ron Paul, but he seems to be bent on working the Christian Right angle so there's a chance he might align with Sam Brownback. Though the magic seems to be gone after the 2006 midterm election.

[wingdarkness]

Now even Bush's brain has fled this presidency? I don't know what else can happen at this point but it's already the worst presidency in the history of our nation and I don't blame anyone from jumping off this ship (Not even the hellbat demon that is Karl Rove)...Atleast they have alot of money to go along with their flaming carcuses...Just 1 year of this embarrassment left...

[nanafan]

that's stupid the guy who leaked should be thrown in jail. why shouldn't he he gave away important information. man this stuff depresses me...

[ComradeKilroy]

Originally Posted by nanafan

that's stupid the guy who leaked should be thrown in jail. why shouldn't he he gave away important information. man this stuff depresses me...

wouldn't matter much. bush would pardon him anyway or do what he did to scooter libby, so he'd have the record, but never go to jail.

[Aoie_Emesai]

Originally Posted by hooliganj

A few corrections: Joe Wilson wasn't looking for WMDs but rather their ingredients - that is to say he was sent to find evidence that Iraq had sold plutonium to Nigeria.

Their attempt to accuse the Iraqis of WMD is just an excuse to do an extensive search on other arms like Rifles and other more threatening items of destruction. The technology behind launching WMDs are more complex and deadlier but at the moment AK-47s and other small arms are more threatening than WMDs.

[ComradeKilroy]

Originally Posted by Aoie_Emesai

Their attempt to accuse the Iraqis of WMD is just an excuse to do an extensive search on other arms like Rifles and other more threatening items of destruction. The technology behind launching WMDs are more complex and deadlier but at the moment AK-47s and other small arms are more threatening than WMDs.

rifles? that doesn't exactly make much sense. People in the middle east are generally known to own assault rifles. Everyone knew that they had rifles. Also, Iraq had the technology to make WMDs. They used them before during the Iran-Iraq war and after the First Gulf. WMDs was more like an excuse to invade iraq for oil or something.

[Aoie_Emesai]

Originally Posted by ComradeKilroy

rifles? that doesn't exactly make much sense. People in the middle east are generally known to own assault rifles. Everyone knew that they had rifles. Also, Iraq had the technology to make WMDs. They used them before during the Iran-Iraq war and after the First Gulf. WMDs was more like an excuse to invade iraq for oil or something.

You can use that too ^_^. Oil... you control this you control the world.

[sezen_atacan]

It might sound out of scope but...... How come its only Japan that has zero resentment for the Bush administration?? If the great speechman Karl Rove can grasp the heart of love from Japanese citizens how come he can't do the same for American citizens?? I don't know but the order of priority seems a bit awkward, allowing an ally to float but allow oneself to sink...... hmm

[hooliganj]

Well, I don't know if all of Japan is united in support of Bush or Rove, but here in the US Karl Rove will be remembered largely for being the architect of some of the most pointlessly divisive politics since the birth of the country. He engineered the system of presidential politics to such a degree that it may take decades for us to reclaim the election process, and that's not even considering everything that happened once his candidates took office.

[nanafan]

i am still shocked that bush got reelected. i know i didn't vote for him.. bah man i don't like politics.

[Vexx]

He won't be missed but hopefully someone will keep a bright light on his whereabouts. Keep an eye out for one of the Republican candidates to hire him quietly as a consultant....

Its amazing the damage that has been done to the institutions of the US, its reputation in the world, the damage to our domestic infrastructure, the damage to our military, the damage to the very people that trusted them like baffled sheep (those 30-percenters) as well as the rest of us. It'll take us thirty years to repair everything and it will cost a fortune. Meanwhile, a few folks have looted the Treasury, raped and pillaged, and made a fortune.

It is only Abe (Bush-lite) that is really enamored with Bush&Co. Most Japanese are pretty fond of Americans and their culture but the 'big politics' are things that 'can't be helped'. It doesn't really sound like they've analyzed the big picture... but they're on board when it comes to North Korea and making the NKs deal with *all* their neighbors.

Japan considers its relationship with the US (and vice versa) more important than temporary issues like administrations... at least so far.

[ComradeKilroy]

Originally Posted by sezen_atacan

It might sound out of scope but...... How come its only Japan that has zero resentment for the Bush administration?? If the great speechman Karl Rove can grasp the heart of love from Japanese citizens how come he can't do the same for American citizens?? I don't know but the order of priority seems a bit awkward, allowing an ally to float but allow oneself to sink...... hmm

because Japan has nothing to worry about. They have no army to send to battle, their economy is finally going up because of their low interest rates or something like that, and the have a very small islamic population.
Also, the Japanese don't exactly like the US either. There are still occasional small scale attacks on US bases, usually resulting in no casualties.

I don't see how Japan is more loving because they don't have an opinion about Bush. That to me just seems like they don't care about anyone else, which is partially true because the Japanese are very nationalistic.

[Vexx]

"japanese don't exactly like the US either" is a very sweeping statement not really borne out. It'd be like claiming the views of small fringe rightwing extremists equal the views of all Americans. Some like the US, some don't. Some like specific elements of America but not other elements.

The attacks on bases you mention are due to aggravation at poor behavior by some US troops (rape, murder), impact on local life, or the very rare rightwing nationalist. Many Okinawans, for example, are not happy with the military still occupying family farmlands, villages, etc.

The japanese economy is lurching, better in some ways but the "team" in the business sector has taken a hit as they experimented with Western "screw the employee" techniques. Unlike the US, they're already acknowledging some of those techniques are lousy ideas and retreating from them. They're also having to come to grips with the evolving structure of family life which is dramatically affecting the birth rate and their ability to stay productive.

The japanese average person is ... well, I'd use the word 'insular' rather than 'nationalistic'. They're just not that aware of the fine details outside their country .... much like many Americans who are quite clueless about the world outside their borders

I'm not quite getting the post a few slots up about Karl Rove and the japanese love ... I'd wager most Japanese have no freaking idea who Rove is or why he was important in the administration. Actually I could say that a good portion of American citizens wouldn't be able to tell someone more than a few sentences about Rove.

[Aoie_Emesai]

I personally don't think many people like the US right now.