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Old 2016-10-29, 22:46   Link #1921
Obelisk ze Tormentor
Black Steel Knight
 
 
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Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post
I thought that is Fanon. Has any official sources straight from the creators themselves confirmed this future Doraemon timeline?
Dude, it's in the chapter of the official manga, and they even made Stand by Me, Doraemon movie based on that very chapter .
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Old 2016-10-30, 00:20   Link #1922
Idealist 99
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Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post
I thought that is Fanon. Has any official sources straight from the creators themselves confirmed this future Doraemon timeline?
Dude , We actually had episode and chapter where Nobita gone to Future and saw Shizuka as his wife .
There is even a chapter and OVA call "Nobita's night before wedding" that focus on Nobita and Shizuka's wedding .
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Old 2016-10-30, 00:23   Link #1923
dniv
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@chosenhero

Thanks for the clarification. That actually makes a lot of sense. I say this about the second part of your explanation. The part about Hinata is something separate that I agree with. I just meant before that in both cases regardless of the difference in quality of the two, they didn't have as much personal development at least in terms of things centered away from the character they liked, but Naruto clearly did it way better... I like your explanation of how you like characters even if you complain because you feel like they're not being treated properly. This explains a lot TBH...
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Old 2016-10-30, 00:24   Link #1924
Idealist 99
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Serena is completely blend and boring , There nothing special about her except her canonize feeling toward Ash.
While May is a well-developed character that started as a selfish , Lazy , weak , passive and whining girl that hated Pokemon but later grow into a stronger , determined , hardworking , selfless girl that love pokemon.
In fact , She has the better quality of every girl.
She can be as passive as Serena , as aggressive as Misty , as Confident as Dawn and as comparative as Iris.
Not to mention , Her attractive design is completely exclusive to Pokemon ! You can find girls looking like Misty ,Dawn and Serena in many anime but May is exclusive to pokemon alone.

Only an idiot writer would hand her over to Drew as his conquest .

Quote:
Originally Posted by dniv View Post
@chosenhero

To be honest, I really like Hinata as a heroine. But in the end, while she's more developed than Serena, she still suffers from the curse of being a love interest that is discarded for much of the plot. Certain parts of her arc were just disappointing. She's one of my favorite heroines but i'd still say that she was essentially dedicated to Naruto in the same exact way I could say Serena is to Ash.

This is why I feel your characterization of their difference as obvious feels a bit unfair to me... but that's just your opinion I guess. I've always mentally compared the two though...
NaruHina was popular because people just hated Sakura and felt Pity for Hinata.
However , They are not very good example of a good couple .
Unfortunately , Ash wasn't in the same situation as Naruto where everybody hated him while only Serena loved him.
In fact , Ash was pretty much as popular guy as Sasuke in XYZ series.
One of the prime reason for XYZ series being Boring.
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Old 2016-10-30, 07:53   Link #1925
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I've always prefer the Pokemon Adventures Manga counterparts for shipping (030)~
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Old 2016-10-30, 08:34   Link #1926
BWTraveller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero View Post
You made me do this:

While yes Hinata didn't have as much time as we are used to see from other love interests in other anime in no way was that an indicatuon of her being "discarded". She was part of another team that had their own missions to fulfill, having her appear every single time and have a team up throughout the entire series would have looked like bs.

Now, Naruto isn't my favorite anime but I don't exactly hate it either so I am willing to give it the props it deserves and Naruto definitely deserves it in making their cast at the least feel like they were their own characters who had their own motivations (even if some of them were stupid) and lives. HInata may have gotten less time but she had a lot of character development, especially in Pain arc. If someone just properly watched you would understand her character and why she liked Naruto so much, the same can't be said for Serena and her obssesion with Ash.

Hinatas' love for Naruto grew from the relsect she had in him for being strong when dealing with others that treated him like crap and his determination to win their approval, something that she herself understood with her position in her family and how they viewed her. Serena fell for Ash to the point of following him because he gave her a handkerchief and smiled at her once when they were kids and that was for like 5 minutes. That isn't the same kind of characterization.

As the series went on we saw Hinata transform from a shy plain girl into an amazing fighter who earned the respect of her family, especially her father and finally got the guy she lived to look her way and notice her. As XY went on we saw Serena go from being a cute girl in love doing cute things to a cute girl in love doing cute things with Pokémon who by the end left the guy liked more confused than he already was (seriously, just look at his face in the last episode, the non-reaction says it all), you can barely say that their relationship even changed.

You said it yourself, she didn't appear as much as Serena and yet she is much more developed a s a character, meanwhile Serena barely feels like she changed with an entire series and more screentime. Those are some of the differences between well written characterization and bland characterization and one of the many things that differentiates the two.

I am not saying you can't like her, if you do you do, but learn to be more critical of how the characters you like are being treated by the writers.

For example, contrary to what you may see me post I like Ash as a character, how could I not I have been a fan since the original series and games first released over here in the west. But, since the soft reboot after Sinnoh I noticed the quality of the writing dwindle and seen some of my favorite characters being treated like they are retarded along with the fans (You can say whatever you want about this being a "kids show", that does not exempt it from criticism especially when other similar series aimed at kids have had great writing), but, that does not mean I will just praise him at every turn when I notice some very glaring flaws in his characterization, I will definitely roast him for every single idiocy I pick up on.

Now, I'm not being harsh on Serena because I hate her, but because I wanted to like her and was dissapointed by the final product (both in the anime and games, XY are my least favorite generation so far). Like I said, you can like her if you want, I am not trying to dissuade you or anyone else from it but let's also not look at them with tinted glasses for our own convinience.
Frankly, there are plenty of ways in which it's unfair to compare Hinata to Serena. Hinata also went from a ten-year-old in love to a fifteen-year-old in love, while Serena went from a ten-year-old attracted to the first boy to tell her to keep fighting and push forward to a ten-year-old in love with a boy she saw face challenge after challenge and keep moving forward. That's a difference of five years; additionally, she has far fewer episodes to advance in and her love interest if anything changes LESS. As I said before, people complain about Serena being "bland" and lacking "development" while pretending the other characters are any better.

My point is, we ALL wear tinted glasses, treating some things as vital while treating others as completely irrelevant, and as a result viewing characters and entire shows as good or bad based on our own rather arbitrary measuring sticks; there's not really anything wrong with that, but you need to recognize that your assessment is also biased and arbitrary, and stop pretending that you're the one who sees things as they really are. At some point she failed to live up to the specific expectations you had and you decided that you didn't like her anymore. For others she continued to be interesting, not because she's "moe sh!t", but because they enjoyed her as a character. Just because a character or even a show doesn't show the sort of character and development you want doesn't mean it's a mere attempt to pander to the LCD. I've seen some people do this for entire shows, deciding on a set of criteria to measure the show by and then insulting the delusional fools who like it despite its utter failure under those criteria.

Again, I'm not saying that Serena has a ton of development or anything like that, only that she doesn't have so much less than the other characters. But again that's why I hope that she comes back at some point, especially if the producers finally get the idea of a small time skip to see if their audience would like a twelve-year-old as much as a ten-year-old. There's definitely potential there, as you obviously saw yourself if you were disappointed in her not developing further. Give her a few months or a couple years, then flesh her out again, and I bet even you would start singing a different tune.
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Old 2016-10-30, 08:37   Link #1927
ImperialFlameGod8190
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Originally Posted by Idealist 99 View Post
Serena is completely blend and boring , There nothing special about her except her canonize feeling toward Ash.
While May is a well-developed character that started as a selfish , Lazy , weak , passive and whining girl that hated Pokemon but later grow into a stronger , determined , hardworking , selfless girl that love pokemon.
In fact , She has the better quality of every girl.
She can be as passive as Serena , as aggressive as Misty , as Confident as Dawn and as comparative as Iris.
Not to mention , Her attractive design is completely exclusive to Pokemon ! You can find girls looking like Misty ,Dawn and Serena in many anime but May is exclusive to pokemon alone.

Only an idiot writer would hand her over to Drew as his conquest .
I disagree heavily with May having the better qualities. What they did with May was they said oh lets give us a slightly more attractive Misty since fans were pissed at them getting rid of her. Unfortunately they forgot the main problem. YOU CANNOT have May and Ash both going for gyms because not only does that add episodes but adds what is sure to be unnecessary drama.

But the thing about May is that her attractiveness in the fandoms mind in Hoenn was meh but it was the Wallace Cup episodes that showed her real "attraction"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Idealist 99 View Post
NaruHina was popular because people just hated Sakura and felt Pity for Hinata.
However , They are not very good example of a good couple .
Unfortunately , Ash wasn't in the same situation as Naruto where everybody hated him while only Serena loved him.
In fact , Ash was pretty much as popular guy as Sasuke in XYZ series.
One of the prime reason for XYZ series being Boring.
NaruHina was pretty much the only option because Sakura's fangirlism annoyed the hell out of people. If we're being completely honest the minute he rejected her fake confession was when Hinata was the winner.

As for Serena. The number one problem was they advertised her as a childhood friend which she turned out to not be. In many ways Serena was a fangirl chasing after her crush and then oops she fell in love with contests. But she still was a terrible character. If we're being completely honest BONNIE was the best character of this series outside of Ash. She had proper development and she was solid with the arc with Zygarde
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Old 2016-10-30, 12:10   Link #1928
Chosen_Hero
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Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190 View Post
I disagree heavily with May having the better qualities. What they did with May was they said oh lets give us a slightly more attractive Misty since fans were pissed at them getting rid of her. Unfortunately they forgot the main problem. YOU CANNOT have May and Ash both going for gyms because not only does that add episodes but adds what is sure to be unnecessary drama.

But the thing about May is that her attractiveness in the fandoms mind in Hoenn was meh but it was the Wallace Cup episodes that showed her real "attraction"



NaruHina was pretty much the only option because Sakura's fangirlism annoyed the hell out of people. If we're being completely honest the minute he rejected her fake confession was when Hinata was the winner.

As for Serena. The number one problem was they advertised her as a childhood friend which she turned out to not be. In many ways Serena was a fangirl chasing after her crush and then oops she fell in love with contests. But she still was a terrible character. If we're being completely honest BONNIE was the best character of this series outside of Ash. She had proper development and she was solid with the arc with Zygarde
Sorry but no, Bonnie is just a worse Max. Max wanted to at least tried to learn from Ash and Brock and looked up to them. Bonnie was just there to add even more ship bait with her reactions, find her (possibly) 10 year old brother a wife for some damn reason and just add more moe shit (like I said before moe isn't inherently bad but they way it is used is just shitty).

They then made her "connect" with Zygarde because they noticed how useless she was and even that was just stupid convinience so that once again Ash was in the middle of yet another legendary being controlled scheme by the evil organization. At least the Hoenn writers had the decency of leaving that kind of stupid set up with Max (and sometimes May) for the movies. I will not stop saying it, XY and XY&Z were just a collection of rehashed of past plot points only done worse.
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Old 2016-10-30, 12:45   Link #1929
Blueknight78
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Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero View Post
Sorry but no, Bonnie is just a worse Max. Max wanted to at least tried to learn from Ash and Brock and looked up to them. Bonnie was just there to add even more ship bait with her reactions, find her (possibly) 10 year old brother a wife for some damn reason and just add more moe shit (like I said before moe isn't inherently bad but they way it is used is just shitty).

They then made her "connect" with Zygarde because they noticed how useless she was and even that was just stupid convinience so that once again Ash was in the middle of yet another legendary being controlled scheme by the evil organization. At least the Hoenn writers had the decency of leaving that kind of stupid set up with Max (and sometimes May) for the movies. I will not stop saying it, XY and XY&Z were just a collection of rehashed of past plot points only done worse.
honestly speaking for me, pokemon after the first tournament "aways" was a rehash, was aways about ashi get brainwashed and forget almost everything and all his development as a future master pokemon(i'm still curious what is that "pokemon master thing) with pikachu geting a "literally fallen from the sky miracullus nerf" to make him weak again, then he meet new broke, new misty, the misty get a crush on him(most of the times) but he only have eyes for pokemons (specially pikachu zoophile FTW), then a new "evil team" appear trying to dominate the world while jessie, james and mew are there to be the "weekly annoyance, then he get all the 3 basic pokemons of the season (or most of the then) then one of the become a godly pokemon near the end, he also get a "annoying rival", then he meet some cool pokemons to leave behind later, then after all the tournament and world dominance and legendary pokemon shinegami ending he just left everything he get on this arc behind(friends, pokemons, brains(specially brain) and go back being the same 10 years old guy which just started his endless unknow jorney to become a pokemon master.

@BWTraveller i agree with you and i can see after more like 20 or 30 years in future ash being the ultimate jerk ass harem king with a lot of broken heart and crush girls which can easy fill the whole japan country while he still trying to find a way to bang pikachu.

that is really the pokemon big trouble the total lack of real development and all the "brainwash" and "forced reset" on each season for the sake of get new fans and completly ignore "old fans".
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Old 2016-10-30, 15:00   Link #1930
ImperialFlameGod8190
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Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero View Post
Sorry but no, Bonnie is just a worse Max. Max wanted to at least tried to learn from Ash and Brock and looked up to them. Bonnie was just there to add even more ship bait with her reactions, find her (possibly) 10 year old brother a wife for some damn reason and just add more moe shit (like I said before moe isn't inherently bad but they way it is used is just shitty).

They then made her "connect" with Zygarde because they noticed how useless she was and even that was just stupid convinience so that once again Ash was in the middle of yet another legendary being controlled scheme by the evil organization. At least the Hoenn writers had the decency of leaving that kind of stupid set up with Max (and sometimes May) for the movies. I will not stop saying it, XY and XY&Z were just a collection of rehashed of past plot points only done worse.
See the thing is this. You're absolutely right but the Zygarde thing definitely made it better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueknight78 View Post
honestly speaking for me, pokemon after the first tournament "aways" was a rehash, was aways about ashi get brainwashed and forget almost everything and all his development as a future master pokemon(i'm still curious what is that "pokemon master thing) with pikachu geting a "literally fallen from the sky miracullus nerf" to make him weak again, then he meet new broke, new misty, the misty get a crush on him(most of the times) but he only have eyes for pokemons (specially pikachu zoophile FTW), then a new "evil team" appear trying to dominate the world while jessie, james and mew are there to be the "weekly annoyance, then he get all the 3 basic pokemons of the season (or most of the then) then one of the become a godly pokemon near the end, he also get a "annoying rival", then he meet some cool pokemons to leave behind later, then after all the tournament and world dominance and legendary pokemon shinegami ending he just left everything he get on this arc behind(friends, pokemons, brains(specially brain) and go back being the same 10 years old guy which just started his endless unknow jorney to become a pokemon master.

@BWTraveller i agree with you and i can see after more like 20 or 30 years in future ash being the ultimate jerk ass harem king with a lot of broken heart and crush girls which can easy fill the whole japan country while he still trying to find a way to bang pikachu.

that is really the pokemon big trouble the total lack of real development and all the "brainwash" and "forced reset" on each season for the sake of get new fans and completly ignore "old fans".
You're not wrong about Pokemon rehashing but its meant to cycle in new fans especially since if you look at the number of episodes they believe you'll grow out of it. XY is 3 years old and i think its one of the shorter sagas

EDIT: At 140 episodes its one of the shorter ones. They assume (foolishly) that you'll grow out of it
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Old 2016-10-30, 15:36   Link #1931
BWTraveller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero View Post
Sorry but no, Bonnie is just a worse Max. Max wanted to at least tried to learn from Ash and Brock and looked up to them. Bonnie was just there to add even more ship bait with her reactions, find her (possibly) 10 year old brother a wife for some damn reason and just add more moe shit (like I said before moe isn't inherently bad but they way it is used is just shitty).

They then made her "connect" with Zygarde because they noticed how useless she was and even that was just stupid convinience so that once again Ash was in the middle of yet another legendary being controlled scheme by the evil organization. At least the Hoenn writers had the decency of leaving that kind of stupid set up with Max (and sometimes May) for the movies. I will not stop saying it, XY and XY&Z were just a collection of rehashed of past plot points only done worse.
Wow, you must have really hated this for some time. Apparently everyone is crap with the possible exception of the dude who hasn't made any real progress in years. And you still insist on a perspective of absolute, where what you don't like is crap and anyone who doesn't see that is either blind or delusional. Open your own eyes, you're no better than the people you keep talking down to no matter how much you insult them. I personally didn't like Eureka/Bonnie, but again you seem to refuse to accept that there might be anything wrong with your perspective or that anyone else's perspective might have validity. You may say that others have a right to their opinions, but it seriously doesn't sound like it when you write it as them having a right to like crap.

Also, as I've said before, one thing I don't get is the way they assume people will leave the franchise and recycle regularly, but they keep the main character. This just makes it look stupid to anyone who doesn't come in at the right time, and I'm sure a LOT of people don't enter right at the start of a new cycle, resulting in them seeing the absurd reset when they should be just starting to get really into the series. Having a new hero would be better because it allows the kids who come in at those times to see a satisfying conclusion that excites them for the new story coming up instead of a disappointing conclusion followed by bewilderment at all the growth that was thrown down the toilet along with countless best friends the dude's just left behind without hesitation. This endless cycle might work well enough for fans that enter at the beginning of an arc, but for the rest it just makes it look dumb. I say give Satoshi a legitimate victory, a few other successes, and then reduce him and his stupid rat to mentors or aspirations for a new set of heroes.

Actually, I could even argue that this desire to keep the characters around so long might be part of the reason that none of them get any development, least of all the ones that people aren't hating on for this. Character development is sort of like plot development, there are limits to how far you can go and you don't want to rush things and wind up with a ton of empty space, resulting in the need to find some way to slow the development down and keep things from happening too quickly. But since the main character can't really grow at all due to his immortality, limits are placed on others' growth at the same time. Particularly, I imagine the creators don't know how long they're supposed to keep a character around, so it's hard to judge how much development to give them, and when you know you've only got one season left of her and you get enough hate mail from gripers, there's really not all that motivation to suddenly develop her at the end.

Last edited by BWTraveller; 2016-10-30 at 16:02.
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Old 2016-10-30, 22:02   Link #1932
Chosen_Hero
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Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190 View Post
See the thing is this. You're absolutely right but the Zygarde thing definitely made it better.
And for me it just made Zygarde worse by association, and the voices they gave both Zygarde were just the worse... still leagues better than english dub Keldeo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BWTraveller View Post
Wow, you must have really hated this for some time. Apparently everyone is crap with the possible exception of the dude who hasn't made any real progress in years. And you still insist on a perspective of absolute, where what you don't like is crap and anyone who doesn't see that is either blind or delusional. Open your own eyes, you're no better than the people you keep talking down to no matter how much you insult them. I personally didn't like Eureka/Bonnie, but again you seem to refuse to accept that there might be anything wrong with your perspective or that anyone else's perspective might have validity. You may say that others have a right to their opinions, but it seriously doesn't sound like it when you write it as them having a right to like crap.

Also, as I've said before, one thing I don't get is the way they assume people will leave the franchise and recycle regularly, but they keep the main character. This just makes it look stupid to anyone who doesn't come in at the right time, and I'm sure a LOT of people don't enter right at the start of a new cycle, resulting in them seeing the absurd reset when they should be just starting to get really into the series. Having a new hero would be better because it allows the kids who come in at those times to see a satisfying conclusion that excites them for the new story coming up instead of a disappointing conclusion followed by bewilderment at all the growth that was thrown down the toilet along with countless best friends the dude's just left behind without hesitation. This endless cycle might work well enough for fans that enter at the beginning of an arc, but for the rest it just makes it look dumb. I say give Satoshi a legitimate victory, a few other successes, and then reduce him and his stupid rat to mentors or aspirations for a new set of heroes.

Actually, I could even argue that this desire to keep the characters around so long might be part of the reason that none of them get any development, least of all the ones that people aren't hating on for this. Character development is sort of like plot development, there are limits to how far you can go and you don't want to rush things and wind up with a ton of empty space, resulting in the need to find some way to slow the development down and keep things from happening too quickly. But since the main character can't really grow at all due to his immortality, limits are placed on others' growth at the same time. Particularly, I imagine the creators don't know how long they're supposed to keep a character around, so it's hard to judge how much development to give them, and when you know you've only got one season left of her and you get enough hate mail from gripers, there's really not all that motivation to suddenly develop her at the end.
Clearly you don't know how to read and are just one sidedly deciding that I am hating just to hate because I don't see things through the same tinted glasses you wear. You see that is the beauty of difference in opinions, I can have mine and you don't have to agree with them or read them and just because I say something you don't like doesn't make it wrong.

First of all you if you were reading my comments you would have noticed how harsh and how much I hate the current Ash (post-Sinnoh) and you would have read the post where I explicitly state to dniv (sorry for bringing you into this) that I don't mind others liking the things I hate about the anime. So instead of assuming amd jumping to wild conclusions why don't you get to learning reading comprehension and take off the rose tinted glasses you obviously have for the series and learn to accept that not everyone likes what the anime has done.

Of course I have a perspective of absolute, it's my absolute opinion, only difference is that unlike others I don't mind others disagreeing with me or liking the anime, but that won't stop me from posting my opinions and views on it. Also, please point out where in my post do I put down or insult anyones opinions, I highly and strongly disagree with them (and I do admit that it does come across as harsh and unfair, but that's how I am) but never have I insulted anyone for their opinions, again, those rose tinted glasses of yours are blinding you. Here is a clue, notice how not one person I have disagreed with (apart from yourself) seems to be taking this personally or feels personally offended by my posts.

So you liked it, good for you go grab a cookie, but that won't stop me from posting my (strong) opinions. If someone feels offended by a comment that isn't directly pointed at them then that is their problem for taking it personally. I personally hope Alola ends up being better than Unova and Kalos in the anime and that the characters are developed enough to actually call them proper characters. Believe it or not I don't watch the anime I watch to hate on the characters. On the contrary, I go into an anime hoping to like them, both heores and villains amd if they fall short and end up dissapointing then I will complain and post my reasons as to why I do, plain and simple.
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Old 2016-10-31, 00:40   Link #1933
BWTraveller
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Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero View Post
And for me it just made Zygarde worse by association, and the voices they gave both Zygarde were just the worse... still leagues better than english dub Keldeo.



Clearly you don't know how to read and are just one sidedly deciding that I am hating just to hate because I don't see things through the same tinted glasses you wear. You see that is the beauty of difference in opinions, I can have mine and you don't have to agree with them or read them and just because I say something you don't like doesn't make it wrong.

First of all you if you were reading my comments you would have noticed how harsh and how much I hate the current Ash (post-Sinnoh) and you would have read the post where I explicitly state to dniv (sorry for bringing you into this) that I don't mind others liking the things I hate about the anime. So instead of assuming amd jumping to wild conclusions why don't you get to learning reading comprehension and take off the rose tinted glasses you obviously have for the series and learn to accept that not everyone likes what the anime has done.

Of course I have a perspective of absolute, it's my absolute opinion, only difference is that unlike others I don't mind others disagreeing with me or liking the anime, but that won't stop me from posting my opinions and views on it. Also, please point out where in my post do I put down or insult anyones opinions, I highly and strongly disagree with them (and I do admit that it does come across as harsh and unfair, but that's how I am) but never have I insulted anyone for their opinions, again, those rose tinted glasses of yours are blinding you. Here is a clue, notice how not one person I have disagreed with (apart from yourself) seems to be taking this personally or feels personally offended by my posts.

So you liked it, good for you go grab a cookie, but that won't stop me from posting my (strong) opinions. If someone feels offended by a comment that isn't directly pointed at them then that is their problem for taking it personally. I personally hope Alola ends up being better than Unova and Kalos in the anime and that the characters are developed enough to actually call them proper characters. Believe it or not I don't watch the anime I watch to hate on the characters. On the contrary, I go into an anime hoping to like them, both heores and villains amd if they fall short and end up dissapointing then I will complain and post my reasons as to why I do, plain and simple.
I'm sorry that I didn't read the part where you talked about Satoshi/Ash. And I'm also sorry that you too seem to fail in literacy, as you obviously failed to notice that I never said Serena was awesome, just good by the standards of the show. I repeatedly talked about how the show is full of unfulfilled potential and every last one of the characters is pretty much just as flat as the rest by my perspective. At the very least, my glasses are NOT rose tinted.

Also, I welcome your opinion, but there's a big difference between talking about your opinion and talking in absolutes. Saying it's your "absolute opinion" doesn't change the way it comes across. Speaking in absolute, saying that people wear tinted glasses while "the truth" is staring them in the face, implies that you're saying people are fools to have differing opinions, because they can't even notice the obvious. Saying you don't like her and going into detail about why, saying you found her to be this or that, is very different that framing the description in an absolute way that denies any other opinion's validity. That just makes you sound arrogant, and frankly conveys a clear insult to anyone that would hold such obviously wrong opinions.

Now go grab a cookie for yourself for the obvious choice that everyone makes to try to like characters. I never said you hated the characters from the start, only that something happened at some point that clearly made you harbor some very extreme feelings toward the season and certain characters. That's how it usually happens. Whether a series is great or terrible, I've seen people enter with high expectations and once their specific expectations are not met they start speaking with apparent anger and frankly excessive negativity that refuses any good points or interpretations. Personally, I'd be happy if this new season works out well, though I hope the art at least gets sufficient backlash that they'll fix it (I'm sorry to people that like it but for me it looks simply awful). What I want is for something to happen that makes the producers consider a few changes to improve the series, alternatives that I suspect would not alienate new audiences but instead would make the series more refreshing and interesting, improve character and plot development, and overall create a series that would both draw new viewers and hold old ones much better. I don't care what sort of trigger it would take to bring this about, especially since I find it to be about as likely as Toriyama learning to create reasonable limits to characters' power levels.

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Old 2016-10-31, 02:56   Link #1934
Idealist 99
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Does anyone interest on Ash's potential capture in Alola ?
The Chinese leak shown that Ash will catch a Inciniroar but I hated its design so much that I wanted the leak to be false.
If Ash doesn't have any traveling companion then he will catch all 3 starter , In fact he catches all 3 stater when The main girl from the game does not join him.
I have notice that nobody expect Primarina as Ash's pokeomon on S/M series due to it being too girly.
So Ash should get a Main traveling companion that has Primarina because I can't see Lana as Ash's main traveling companion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190 View Post
I disagree heavily with May having the better qualities. What they did with May was they said oh lets give us a slightly more attractive Misty since fans were pissed at them getting rid of her. Unfortunately they forgot the main problem. YOU CANNOT have May and Ash both going for gyms because not only does that add episodes but adds what is sure to be unnecessary drama.

But the thing about May is that her attractiveness in the fandoms mind in Hoenn was meh but it was the Wallace Cup episodes that showed her real "attraction"
May was hated at first but she manage to gain a huge fandom later.
That proves how Unique character May was !
Her popularity doesn't just come from her attractiveness , It also come from her growth and Development.
She is in fact the 1st original coordinator of the series .
Maybe , She should join Ash for one final series where she and Ash both achieve their goal together.
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Old 2016-10-31, 11:09   Link #1935
ImperialFlameGod8190
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Originally Posted by Idealist 99 View Post

May was hated at first but she manage to gain a huge fandom later.
That proves how Unique character May was !
Her popularity doesn't just come from her attractiveness , It also come from her growth and Development.
She is in fact the 1st original coordinator of the series .
Maybe , She should join Ash for one final series where she and Ash both achieve their goal together.
Bro May was hated at first because everybody saw her what she was originally misty 2.0. The fandom changed after she returned in DP for the wallace cup because she had a body which she didnt have in Hoenn.
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Old 2016-10-31, 12:41   Link #1936
Chosen_Hero
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Originally Posted by BWTraveller View Post
I'm sorry that I didn't read the part where you talked about Satoshi/Ash. And I'm also sorry that you too seem to fail in literacy, as you obviously failed to notice that I never said Serena was awesome, just good by the standards of the show. I repeatedly talked about how the show is full of unfulfilled potential and every last one of the characters is pretty much just as flat as the rest by my perspective. At the very least, my glasses are NOT rose tinted.

Also, I welcome your opinion, but there's a big difference between talking about your opinion and talking in absolutes. Saying it's your "absolute opinion" doesn't change the way it comes across. Speaking in absolute, saying that people wear tinted glasses while "the truth" is staring them in the face, implies that you're saying people are fools to have differing opinions, because they can't even notice the obvious. Saying you don't like her and going into detail about why, saying you found her to be this or that, is very different that framing the description in an absolute way that denies any other opinion's validity. That just makes you sound arrogant, and frankly conveys a clear insult to anyone that would hold such obviously wrong opinions.

Now go grab a cookie for yourself for the obvious choice that everyone makes to try to like characters. I never said you hated the characters from the start, only that something happened at some point that clearly made you harbor some very extreme feelings toward the season and certain characters. That's how it usually happens. Whether a series is great or terrible, I've seen people enter with high expectations and once their specific expectations are not met they start speaking with apparent anger and frankly excessive negativity that refuses any good points or interpretations. Personally, I'd be happy if this new season works out well, though I hope the art at least gets sufficient backlash that they'll fix it (I'm sorry to people that like it but for me it looks simply awful). What I want is for something to happen that makes the producers consider a few changes to improve the series, alternatives that I suspect would not alienate new audiences but instead would make the series more refreshing and interesting, improve character and plot development, and overall create a series that would both draw new viewers and hold old ones much better. I don't care what sort of trigger it would take to bring this about, especially since I find it to be about as likely as Toriyama learning to create reasonable limits to characters' power levels.
1) Please find me a quote in my post where I say anything about you saying Serena was awesome.

2) Considering how defensive you got just because I have strong negative opinions on the season and the fact that you basically made up stuff I never said anyone could be fooled. You say you don't and yet your actions say otherwise.

3) First you have to understand that I never tried to force anyone into thinking that my viewpoint was the only thing, if I did any of the people I had been disagreeing with would have called me on my bullshit many times over. Also, if you go back far enough you'll see that my comments aren't just a one off, which means that this isn't the first time I have made my thoughts known and yet you seem to the only one taking offense.

4) And there you go again creating drama where it doesn't exists, when have I ever called/implied that anyone that disagreed with me was a fool? Also, why is pointing out in a clear and concise way why I dislike a character all of a sudden me denying someone elses opinions? Would you prefer I complain without giving any clear reason as to why I dislike said character/s?

Assumptions, that is the keyword that comes to mind when describing your posts. You see, you claim that you "understand" but you clearly don't, especially with all of the assumptions you keep making.

Also, you are very arrongant in claiming that my comments are there to invalidate others opinions without any lefitimate proof as if you have some sort of insight into my mind. You are clearly the only person in here that seems to have a problem while the ones you claim I am invalidating seem to understand what I have posted and (as far as I know) don't seem to feel like I ignored their opinions, you speaking for them is very arrogant and in some ways insulting to them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190 View Post
Bro May was hated at first because everybody saw her what she was originally misty 2.0. The fandom changed after she returned in DP for the wallace cup because she had a body which she didnt have in Hoenn.
Agreed, everyone pretty much started to like May because she didn't have the body of a 10 year old.

Funny thing is that even GameFreak knew this so in ORAS they gave her less proportions than she originally had.
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Old 2016-10-31, 13:26   Link #1937
Vegard Aune
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Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190 View Post
EDIT: At 140 episodes its one of the shorter ones. They assume (foolishly) that you'll grow out of it
This being said in a thread where everyone seems to be complaining about the anime being utterly stagnant, repetive and boring. Looks to me like most of you already have grown out of it.

...Of course, so did I, then I tried getting back into it again because I heard that this series was suposed to be really good, and you know what? Personally I've quite enjoyed it. Again, I never went into this series expecting a masterpiece. I just wanted to see the Pokémon from X and Y animated, some elaboration on some of the more underdeveloped aspects of the game, and some good action. As far as I'm concerned, the show delivered just fine on all of those. Like, say what you will about the overall plotting, but if anyone here can honestly say that Mega Sceptile VS Ash-Greninja was not an incredibly fun battle... well then I just have to wonder how much it'll take to please you.
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Old 2016-10-31, 14:00   Link #1938
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Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero View Post
1) Please find me a quote in my post where I say anything about you saying Serena was awesome.

2) Considering how defensive you got just because I have strong negative opinions on the season and the fact that you basically made up stuff I never said anyone could be fooled. You say you don't and yet your actions say otherwise.

3) First you have to understand that I never tried to force anyone into thinking that my viewpoint was the only thing, if I did any of the people I had been disagreeing with would have called me on my bullshit many times over. Also, if you go back far enough you'll see that my comments aren't just a one off, which means that this isn't the first time I have made my thoughts known and yet you seem to the only one taking offense.

4) And there you go again creating drama where it doesn't exists, when have I ever called/implied that anyone that disagreed with me was a fool? Also, why is pointing out in a clear and concise way why I dislike a character all of a sudden me denying someone elses opinions? Would you prefer I complain without giving any clear reason as to why I dislike said character/s?

Assumptions, that is the keyword that comes to mind when describing your posts. You see, you claim that you "understand" but you clearly don't, especially with all of the assumptions you keep making.

Also, you are very arrongant in claiming that my comments are there to invalidate others opinions without any lefitimate proof as if you have some sort of insight into my mind. You are clearly the only person in here that seems to have a problem while the ones you claim I am invalidating seem to understand what I have posted and (as far as I know) don't seem to feel like I ignored their opinions, you speaking for them is very arrogant and in some ways insulting to them.



Agreed, everyone pretty much started to like May because she didn't have the body of a 10 year old.

Funny thing is that even GameFreak knew this so in ORAS they gave her less proportions than she originally had.
I exaggerated for effect when I said "I didn't say she was awesome". My point was that I wasn't trying to say she was a particularly great character, just that she's not so bad relative to the series.

Also, I only got defensive because I can't stand people presenting their opinions in absolutes that deny other opinions, and again, you did accuse others of not seeing the truth right in front of their faces, along with other statements that clearly present as an insult, a claim that another person is unable to see what should be obvious. That takes an expression of a contrary opinion and adds a good deal of disrespect and contempt, and it doesn't matter to me whether we're dealing with something mediocre or a masterpiece, I still don't like it.

So once again, I repeat that while you may not have intended to insult people or call them fools, even if you never said those exact words the way you frame your opinions and others' opinions create a very clear implication that those who disagree must not know what they're talking about. You have occasionally backpedaled and said things like "you're free to express your own opinion", but that's a bit like thinking that adding "with all due respect" to the beginning of any statement will make it respectful. It doesn't. Also, I'm sorry if I suggested that you yourself are arrogant; what I meant was that writing opinions as if they're facts, treating disagreements as if they're clearly incorrect (again, the truth presented week after week), and throwing in sarcastic cracks all create an arrogant tone regardless of your actual feelings and intent.

My point is that you're phrasing your opinions in a way that seriously makes it sound like they're "right", and saying you're "right" implies that others are "wrong". There's a big difference in tone between saying "all I see is an attempt to pander to moe-loving otakus" and "she was just pandering to moe-loving otakus". The first expresses a viewpoint and welcomes people to disagree with you and express what they see. The second declares the viewpoint as an absolute fact, a fact that directly associates the character and her fandom with the sort of "otakus that eat moe sh!t", an obviously derisive statement.

Anyway, I'm sorry, I have honestly never even visited this thread until the last episode came out and did not bother to read back more than two or three pages to get the gist of the present state of things, but I got a little carried away because your comments reminded me of a number of comments I'd seen on a number of threads. Including a couple comments I made myself some time ago that received some major backlash because I chose to present things as "the way things are" instead of "the things look to me", and while opinions can have any number of right answers, a fact is either right or wrong and thus its assertion implies a denial of alternatives. Whatever the case, you're entitled to your opinion, and I certainly see where you're coming from. Serena's definitely not any better than the rest of the cast on this show. Nothing in this show has won any prizes in my book for quite some time. Which is really incredibly sad because every last character in my eyes is not an attempt to appeal to certain people but rather a huge mass of unrealized potential.
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Old 2016-10-31, 14:38   Link #1939
Chosen_Hero
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Originally Posted by Vegard Aune View Post
This being said in a thread where everyone seems to be complaining about the anime being utterly stagnant, repetive and boring. Looks to me like most of you already have grown out of it.

...Of course, so did I, then I tried getting back into it again because I heard that this series was suposed to be really good, and you know what? Personally I've quite enjoyed it. Again, I never went into this series expecting a masterpiece. I just wanted to see the Pokémon from X and Y animated, some elaboration on some of the more underdeveloped aspects of the game, and some good action. As far as I'm concerned, the show delivered just fine on all of those. Like, say what you will about the overall plotting, but if anyone here can honestly say that Mega Sceptile VS Ash-Greninja was not an incredibly fun battle... well then I just have to wonder how much it'll take to please you.
Pretty sure no one is asking for Pokémon of all things to be a masterpiece, just good and at the most great. Just because someone complaints it doesn't mean that they "grew out of it" since it doesn't matter how old you are, you like something you like it. For example, I'm 27 years old and I have not once stopped playing Pokémon or watching the anime ever since they first released over here in the west and not matter how much I complain and dislike certain things or characters I certainly do not feel like I have "grown out of it" but instead that the series has been dumb down for no reason at all (no, I don't believe the excuse given about "trying to appease to the newer demographic" they wrote themselves into a corner after Sinnoh, plain and simple).

There are some that will say that this is a kids show so you shouldn't expect it to be good, but how many other series are meant for kids and yet they are better than a lot things for adults? Anime in and of it self is made primarily for kids and teens, by that thinking I shouldn't like any anime since I have seriously big problems even with my favorite series.

And while yes, Ash vs Shouta, Ash vs Alain and Ash vs Korrina were amazing fun battles to look at it still doesn't mean that one shouldn't air their grievances with what they disliked. And just because someone doesn't like a lot of things about a series it doesn't inherently make it a case of "having grown out of it".

To me personally (and you are free to disagree) the soft reboot in Unova destroyed any sense of progression the anime had up until Sinnoh and has not shown any signs of having gotten better, again, in my opinion. Was said sense of progression masterfully crafted? No, but it is to my belief that it was great, especially coming from Pokémon a series not known for actually feeling like it is progressing. But it was there if you combed throught the admittedly large amounts of filler of which in my opinion XY has the worse just like the XY games were a chore to get through (I generally dislike anything to do with XY, even the games which were a chore to get through and felt empty amd dissapointing from the get go. ORAS was much better and Sun and Moon look amazing).

So how about we don't assume the reasons why others like or dislike something. Everyone is free to like or dislike a series as much as they want, those (like me) that have strong opinions only do so because we care more than most and want it to do better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BWTraveller View Post
I exaggerated for effect when I said "I didn't say she was awesome". My point was that I wasn't trying to say she was a particularly great character, just that she's not so bad relative to the series.

Also, I only got defensive because I can't stand people presenting their opinions in absolutes that deny other opinions, and again, you did accuse others of not seeing the truth right in front of their faces, along with other statements that clearly present as an insult, a claim that another person is unable to see what should be obvious. That takes an expression of a contrary opinion and adds a good deal of disrespect and contempt, and it doesn't matter to me whether we're dealing with something mediocre or a masterpiece, I still don't like it.

So once again, I repeat that while you may not have intended to insult people or call them fools, even if you never said those exact words the way you frame your opinions and others' opinions create a very clear implication that those who disagree must not know what they're talking about. You have occasionally backpedaled and said things like "you're free to express your own opinion", but that's a bit like thinking that adding "with all due respect" to the beginning of any statement will make it respectful. It doesn't. Also, I'm sorry if I suggested that you yourself are arrogant; what I meant was that writing opinions as if they're facts, treating disagreements as if they're clearly incorrect (again, the truth presented week after week), and throwing in sarcastic cracks all create an arrogant tone regardless of your actual feelings and intent.

My point is that you're phrasing your opinions in a way that seriously makes it sound like they're "right", and saying you're "right" implies that others are "wrong". There's a big difference in tone between saying "all I see is an attempt to pander to moe-loving otakus" and "she was just pandering to moe-loving otakus". The first expresses a viewpoint and welcomes people to disagree with you and express what they see. The second declares the viewpoint as an absolute fact, a fact that directly associates the character and her fandom with the sort of "otakus that eat moe sh!t", an obviously derisive statement.

Anyway, I'm sorry, I have honestly never even visited this thread until the last episode came out and did not bother to read back more than two or three pages to get the gist of the present state of things, but I got a little carried away because your comments reminded me of a number of comments I'd seen on a number of threads. Including a couple comments I made myself some time ago that received some major backlash because I chose to present things as "the way things are" instead of "the things look to me", and while opinions can have any number of right answers, a fact is either right or wrong and thus its assertion implies a denial of alternatives. Whatever the case, you're entitled to your opinion, and I certainly see where you're coming from. Serena's definitely not any better than the rest of the cast on this show. Nothing in this show has won any prizes in my book for quite some time. Which is really incredibly sad because every last character in my eyes is not an attempt to appeal to certain people but rather a huge mass of unrealized potential.
I make it my goal to not invalidate anyone else's opinions, so if you read it that way it isn't a problem of my part, especially since others don't seem to have interpreted it that way (if it had been and it was made clear that others were hurt I would certainly have apoligized). Yes, I disagree with a lot of others opinions but that is why I like to make myself clear and list why I disagree with them, does it come off as forceful? Yes it does, but that doesn't mean that the intent is to invalidate the other person I just want my point of view to be made clear.

I just have stronger and harsher opinions because I have been with the series (and games) non-stop since it first released in the west, so while my phrasing might "look" like i'm imposing my opinions I am certainly not, I just care that much about it. Just because I like something it doesn't mean I will go easy on it and hold back.
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Old 2016-10-31, 14:44   Link #1940
ImperialFlameGod8190
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Originally Posted by Vegard Aune View Post
This being said in a thread where everyone seems to be complaining about the anime being utterly stagnant, repetive and boring. Looks to me like most of you already have grown out of it.

...Of course, so did I, then I tried getting back into it again because I heard that this series was suposed to be really good, and you know what? Personally I've quite enjoyed it. Again, I never went into this series expecting a masterpiece. I just wanted to see the Pokémon from X and Y animated, some elaboration on some of the more underdeveloped aspects of the game, and some good action. As far as I'm concerned, the show delivered just fine on all of those. Like, say what you will about the overall plotting, but if anyone here can honestly say that Mega Sceptile VS Ash-Greninja was not an incredibly fun battle... well then I just have to wonder how much it'll take to please you.
You misunderstand heavily. The audience they are aiming for with this reset is 10 year old kids. At 10 years old the logic that an older person like me would use is absolutely nonexistant. We like pokemon but we're more critical of the things that made it bad. The things that somebody whose 20+ like me can ignore are far less

Mega Sceptile vs Ash-Greninja is one of the greatest proofs of that. Most young kids would ignore the fact that within the game Greninja is a glass cannon of glass cannons and that thing "endured" 3 Leaf storm attacks plus leafblade and somehow won the battle with Water shuriken one of the weakest water attacks in existence against a Water/Dragon
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