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Old 2018-11-30, 12:47   Link #21
Kanon
Kana Hanazawa ♥
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
I honestly never understood this complaint. The supernovas were introduced as Luffy's rivals/peers from the very beginning, so why is it so odd that they're roughly equal at this point in the story? Just because the rest of the supernovas didn't stop to train? Could they not have just as easily have gained strength and experience merely from their own adventures in the NW during that period? I mean, it's not like any of them became Pirate King during the skip, did they? Hell, the fact that they themselves are still struggling in light of all their infamy and schemes makes it pretty clear that their time in the NW wasn't exactly a picnic, either.....


....of course, you could also blame this on Oda himself being unaware of the supernovas' importance to the plot when he first introduced them (he confessed as such not that long ago), but I can definitely see some in-story justification for their continued prominence in the NW.
We were told the Straw Hats had to stop their journey for two years to train or they wouldn't survive the New World, yet the Supernovas went in head first and they all ended up being just fine. Besides Capone and Drake who were beaten early and forced to join a Yonkou to survive, the others seemed to have been able to forge their own paths until recently. It makes you wonder why the SHs couldn't have done the same, and undermines the importance of their training.

I know it's not Oda's style, but it would have been more realistic if a couple supernovas had kicked the bucket.
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Old 2018-11-30, 16:02   Link #22
teejmo
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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
We were told the Straw Hats had to stop their journey for two years to train or they wouldn't survive the New World, yet the Supernovas went in head first and they all ended up being just fine. Besides Capone and Drake who were beaten early and forced to join a Yonkou to survive, the others seemed to have been able to forge their own paths until recently. It makes you wonder why the SHs couldn't have done the same, and undermines the importance of their training.

I know it's not Oda's style, but it would have been more realistic if a couple supernovas had kicked the bucket.
While I kind of understand why it's annoying how it doesn't seem the Straw Hats are that much stronger than the rest of the Supernovas, there are two in-universe explanations to that. One, unlike the rest of the Supernovas, the Straw Hats had a target on them the size of a freaking ocean. Luffy's actions leading up to the time skip were making waves that the government were not going to ignore: declaring war on the Marines and getting blamed for the destruction of one one of the government's most important Paradise bases, breaking into and escaping a previously considered impregnable prison, punching a Dragon, getting publicly outed as the son of the world's most dangerous man - and all of that in a very small timeframe. You could make a pretty good argument that the two-year-long time skip was less for training and more to let the heat on the Straw Hats off - it explains why, two years later, they were rumored to all be dead.
And that leads into the second explanation: in the One Piece world takes fighting stronger foes to get stronger - yes, it might've been stated specifically for Haki, but the Law-Smoker-Vergo fight might hint it to be true with Devil Fruits as well. Yes, training gave the Straw Hats better quality in their techniques, but while Luffy was hiding on a remote island taking on giant animals, the rest of the Supernovas were challenging Yonko - not exactly the most even of opponents. You could make an argument that Luffy and co. have been playing catch-up ever since they finally left for the New World.
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Old 2018-11-30, 16:46   Link #23
marvelB
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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
We were told the Straw Hats had to stop their journey for two years to train or they wouldn't survive the New World, yet the Supernovas went in head first and they all ended up being just fine. Besides Capone and Drake who were beaten early and forced to join a Yonkou to survive, the others seemed to have been able to forge their own paths until recently. It makes you wonder why the SHs couldn't have done the same, and undermines the importance of their training.

I know it's not Oda's style, but it would have been more realistic if a couple supernovas had kicked the bucket.

I dunno..... to me, it feels sorta like a tortoise and hare-type of situation: The other supernovas may have gotten a head start, but Luffy and co. decided to take things slow and steady, and became the better-prepared for it (for the most part, at least). I mean, if we don't focus solely on strength here, look how much they accomplished by delaying their journey to the New World: They gained the favor of the fish-people by taking down what was essentially fish-ISIS, toppled a massive underworld empire run by Doflamingo (which resulted in cutting off the primary arms supply of the current arc's villain), learned of the proper path to reach Raftel upon reaching Zou, and most recently, dealt a huge blow to an emperor's reputation during what was essentially meant to be a rescue mission. None of the other supernovas certainly raised enough hell during the skip to make their bounties jump past a billion, have they? So what does it matter if they all rushed ahead and still managed to survive to this day? In the end, it's still gonna be the "tortoise" (Straw-Hats) who beats all those napping "hares" (supernovas) to the throne!


....Though in the end, none of that is gonna matter since Buggy will undoubtedly become Pirate God by the series' end. What use would a mortal ruler's title have for him?
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Old 2018-12-01, 14:24   Link #24
Kanon
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Join Date: Jun 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teejmo View Post
While I kind of understand why it's annoying how it doesn't seem the Straw Hats are that much stronger than the rest of the Supernovas, there are two in-universe explanations to that. One, unlike the rest of the Supernovas, the Straw Hats had a target on them the size of a freaking ocean. Luffy's actions leading up to the time skip were making waves that the government were not going to ignore: declaring war on the Marines and getting blamed for the destruction of one one of the government's most important Paradise bases, breaking into and escaping a previously considered impregnable prison, punching a Dragon, getting publicly outed as the son of the world's most dangerous man - and all of that in a very small timeframe. You could make a pretty good argument that the two-year-long time skip was less for training and more to let the heat on the Straw Hats off - it explains why, two years later, they were rumored to all be dead.
And that leads into the second explanation: in the One Piece world takes fighting stronger foes to get stronger - yes, it might've been stated specifically for Haki, but the Law-Smoker-Vergo fight might hint it to be true with Devil Fruits as well. Yes, training gave the Straw Hats better quality in their techniques, but while Luffy was hiding on a remote island taking on giant animals, the rest of the Supernovas were challenging Yonko - not exactly the most even of opponents. You could make an argument that Luffy and co. have been playing catch-up ever since they finally left for the New World.
You make some very good points.

I doubt Luffy actually took his situation regarding the government into account though. He was mostly traumatized after helplessly watching the members of his crew vanishing one by one before his eyes, and obviously Ace's death. He decided they needed to train because he was scared of losing them. Which is totally understandable, of course.

That said, regardless of whether Luffy thought about it or not, no doubt the SHs did benefit from letting the heat die down in the end, so your point stands. If they had entered the New World immediately, they would have started out with a massive disadvantage compared to the other rookies. I suppose the supernovas surviving could also be attributed to the fact the whole world was in turmoil back then. Under normal circumstances, they may not have been so lucky.

Marvel's right, too. The SHs have accomplished more in their few months in the New World than the rest of the supernovas in two years when I really think about it. However, they still had to struggle a hell of a lot to get there. Their training should have been a bit more beneficial than that IMO. It would be boring if everything was a cakewalk for them like Fishman Island, but something more inbetween would have been nice. Well, there's still Zoro who hasn't broken a sweat since the timeskip.
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Old 2018-12-01, 20:28   Link #25
Tuor
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Join Date: Apr 2013
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Why are people saying that Kid and Luffy are equal? They're possibly equal while wearing cuffs that prevent them from using their devil fruit powers, but that doesn't mean they are when they *not* both wearing them. Also, we don't know how much or what kind of Haki Kid possesses, so we can't say if Kid is equal to Luffy in that regard, either. It *might* turn out to be true, but I think it's too early to make that claim.

Regarding the necessity of the two year time-skip... From what I've seen, only the Captains of the other Supernova crews have done much of note in the New World. But even a "regular" crewman of the SH Pirates is pretty darned capable now. I think, as a crew, the SH pirates are #1 among all of the other Supernova crews, and that is in part because of their extra training. They've had to reestablish themselves after being out of the game for two years, but they've done that. Luffy couldn't have made it through Big Mom's territory if the rest of his crew hadn't stepped up their game, and that's true of the other situations he's been in, too: Fishmen Isle, Punk Hazard, Dressrosa, etc. I mean, Law kept his crew out of both Punk Island and Dressrosa entirely; Luffy did not.

Additionally, when they were on Seabody, it was the Straw Hats that had to fend off both a Navy Admiral and Kuma. The other crews ran like crazy from the Admiral, but the Straw Hats tried to fight, and they got whooped. What else was Luffy to think besides the fact, brutally delivered, that they needed more training. This is what Raleigh convinced him of as well.

Law has said that the Straw Hats are capable of doing the impossible, and I think that this was helped by them growing stronger to the point that several of them know Haki now, as well as other extreme skills. I think they came to the New World better prepared and have made much more of an impact in the short time they've been there than any of the other Supernova crews have managed.

Last edited by Tuor; 2018-12-01 at 21:58.
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