(L+CR) Hibike! Euphonium [anime]

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Pocari_Sweat

Oh great. The shipping talk is back for this series. Ffs people lol.

Sorry. That’s totally my fault. I have been trying my best to steer the discussion beyond the ‘shipping lens’, which I consider pretty frustratingly narrow... But I’ll just respond to some of the comments before I bow out again.

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Originally Posted by Eragon

The characters behave very differently when its a romantic relationship compared to friendship. There are, awkward "hi's", lots of blushing when either one compliments the other, seem to think about each other, in a new relationship - at least in the media. I find it very endearing and makes me really happy to see them happy together(well, this goes for real life people too).

Well, that sounds a lot like ‘koi’ or ‘ren'ai’ (= 'young/romantic love') to me, which I've seen a lot of Japanese writers/creators differentiate from other stages of love (‘ai’) even in ‘romantic relationships’.

But for the purposes of this discussion, let’s run with that. What is it, then, that makes them happy to be together? Why that particular person and not someone else? Do you just accept ‘oh, they’re in love, that’s why they’re like that?’? To me, that’s a circular argument that really doesn’t get into what love is or what that particular couple’s love is based on. Can we really not talk about why two people really connect to each other, other than to say “Well, they’re just soulmates. That’s all there is to it”?

Maybe I missed it, but to me, a lot of the 'shipping' here seemed to be focused on 'wow, they're totally behaving like they're in love with each other, so KyoAni better not be baiting us again' rather than on the 'why'.

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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

Though as an aside, I find it pretty funny how much mental gymnastics is going on defining someone people's relationship. I'm just like, meh, whatever they want. It's not that big of a deal.

That’s the thing, isn’t it?

See, I couldn’t care less what the label is. In the case of Kumiko and Reina, their relationship is what it is, however you want to describe it. I’m far more interested in why they connect to each other, rather than in what their relationship is at this point in time.

But some people seem to want them to be in a “romantic relationship,” whilst others are adamant that they are “friends.” Why do we like putting relationships (and all manner of other abstract things) into such neat, well-defined boxes?

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@Triple_R

There are some other things that I think are best taken to PM, but to finish off what I want to say here:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

All of the above being said... I'm very confident that KyoAni knows about these tendencies of the anime industry and its fandom just as well as you and I do. They knew exactly what they were doing with Kumiko and Reina in this show. This wasn't a case of one small moment alone being blown up huge, and causing people to jump to conclusions. There's a definite pattern of interaction between Kumiko and Reina that mostly escalates throughout the Hibike anime, with several moments clearly crafted carefully for maximum yuri fandom delight. Well, if an anime studio consistently plays that game, it has to live by the predictable results of it.

*snip*

Anyway, the shipping discussion is just one side of Hibike. I'd like to think that most/all of us can appreciate its strong music drama aspect. And ultimately, karice, I think the various UFO shippings don't undermine the anime as is. If there is a 2nd season, I could see it causing some friction, but I think it's best to cross that bridge if/when we come to it. I personally doubt KyoAni will do another Hibike season, though I'd definitely watch at least some of it if we get one in the future.

Personally, I found the shipping discussion pretty detrimental to one of the key themes I saw in S!E, a theme that I believe is fundamental to Reina and Kumiko’s relationship. The relatively neglected theme that I found running through the series is about ‘societal expectations’. That was what Reina’s “I want to be special” speech to Kumiko in episode 8 was all about: it echoed what happened with the club’s vote around episode three, and what happened with Aoi a few episodes later. And then, it was reinforced again and again by the developments and related conversations leading up to the solo audition in episode 11. However, very few people seemed interested in that, as opposed to the ‘oh, that was so romantic’, ‘an intimate relationship with Kumiko is what she means by “special”’ and ‘KyoAni had better not be baiting us again!’ discussions that seemed to dominate here and elsewhere around episodes 8-10.

I could be remembering wrong, because people tend to remember what they don’t like, and those were the kinds of comments that were driving me crazy. And maybe I left prematurely — I don’t really know how things went after episode 10/11, though skimming through suggests that discussion about ‘band geekery’ and music drama did increase. But if so, what happened to the “youth” part of S!E (the PVs proclaim that this series is about “youth” and “music”)? Is ‘romance’ / ‘romantic love’ the only or the most important thing about youth? I know that people also started talking about how Kumiko found her passion for music, but surely that didn’t just show up in the last few episodes. And furthermore, rather than really exploring the basis of the Kumiko-Reina relationship, a lot of people seemed to just go ‘oh, that was disappointing’.

Speaking of expectations and how KyoAni should have known what would happen given what they did: perhaps they did know. But if so, then why did Yamada deliberately choose to colour their relationship in that way? The argument that most people seem to be making is that they were just ‘yuri-baiting’ the audience again. However, what if they were trying to make another point, one that required them to make the Kumiko-Reina relationship so ambiguous? Do people really not find some of the things mentioned in that Ishihara-Yamada-Takeda interview interesting, even if you might not agree with what they say? Have you tried putting down your own expectations and biases in order to consider what they have said they were trying to do? Like, really tried?

To be honest, I find it somewhat ironic that viewers were and are talking about how their expectations were dashed when what’s driving Reina is that very idea of going against expectations.

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To wrap up, I’m sorry if I seem confrontational in using this ‘Socratic method’ (as people at another forum termed it when they got annoyed at the questions I was throwing at them re: another series). I don’t have the answers to the questions I’ve posed, just my own answers based on all the time I’ve spent contemplating this series. However, I think that it is important for all of us to keep asking ourselves these types of questions, especially the ‘why did they do that?’ or ‘why did that happen’ ones, when something goes against our expectations.

In any case, I’ll think I’ve said enough on this topic here…and I’m sure some of you are thoroughly sick of me, too.

p.s. For the record, whilst I’m happy to take Takeda and the show’s word that Reina has a crush on Taki (~ ‘koi’/‘ren’ai’) at this point in time—and the suggestion that Kumiko has one on Shuuichi—I can totally see the two girls in a so-called ‘romantic’ relationship (based primarily on ‘ai’ as opposed to ‘ren’ai’) in the future, if their hearts take them down that path. Of course, you can believe me or not as you see fit.

[Liddo-kun]

Originally Posted by blakstealth

scans, baby

Spoiler:

Thanks for sharing! Nice scans. ^^
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Anyway, now on episode 9.. still having fun watching this series.

Hmm, their teacher is intense. Really filtering the good musicians, so that they could have a better shot at the nationals. A little sad Natsuki didn't get chosen.. she worked hard, and even Kumiko thought that Natsuki's playing is good. Unfortunately, not good enough for sensei. Well, she's only 2nd year - could try again next year,

I see a conflict coming up due to Reina being chosen for the trumpet solo part. Hopefully, the girl with the yellow ribbon (forgot her name) doesn't give Reina a hard time. ><

[spawnofthejudge]

Originally Posted by Akuma Kinomoto

That said, a relationship between Kumiko and Shuichi, or Reina and Taki, wouldn't undermine the musical focus of the show at all. Because romance can just happen naturally regardless of genre, while homosexuality should always be specifically addressed.

I'm really just here to point out that you just said that homosexual relationships can't be romantic.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by karice67

That’s the thing, isn’t it?

See, I couldn’t care less what the label is. In the case of Kumiko and Reina, their relationship is what it is, however you want to describe it. I’m far more interested in why they connect to each other, rather than in what their relationship is at this point in time.

But some people seem to want them to be in a “romantic relationship,” whilst others are adamant that they are “friends.” Why do we like putting relationships (and all manner of other abstract things) into such neat, well-defined boxes?

Yea, that's basically what I'm getting at as well. When I watched the show, I was far more interested in how the characters interact and I think the show did it quite well-- usually. It got a bit silly in a few parts like the prolonged but somehow still deadpan cheek squeezing scenes.

But yea, I'm just going with whatever the show is suggesting.

However, I would like to add that sometimes the desire to label a duo friends or romantic is to cause a dichotomy which means this possibility is mutually exclusive with other possibilities. This is what some would term "shippng" and which simply isn't true as one could be attracted to more than one person.

[Kamieichi]

Originally Posted by karice67

I can try to highlight them in another comment to him, if you like/don't mind (though it might be better for me to wait until I can order my own copy so that I'll be able to prove to him that I have it...).

Thanks, but it's fine. It's not like I seriously want him to rewrite the lines or want to know the intentions(if there are). Well, if you feel you want to after read it, I don't mind though.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I personally doubt KyoAni will do another Hibike season

I don't know why you think so, but they wouldn't betray my investment.

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[Liddo-kun]

Now on episode 12. Just one more to go.

Wow, Kumiko is really determined to improve. Surprised that she even had that nosebleed from the effort. Tough practice. O_o

A little difficult to introduce this anime to our cosplay group because of the subtle yuri... but will try >__<. If Karen or MJ-cat likes this anime, they might cosplay it.

Glad that this gem has been recommended by a friend. A little sad that just one more episode. Will miss this anime. Season two please. ;____;


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Originally Posted by Kamieichi

I don't know why you think so, but they wouldn't betray my investment.

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Nice collection. :3


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EDIT: Have now finished watching the anime. This is now one of my favorites.

Feeling inspired...

Just so beautiful when they performed, almost had tears in my eyes. ;___;

[wolfie74]

BD jacket contains all four post competition. Very fitting for the cover actually.

http://anime-eupho.com/sp/product/bddvd/07/

Contents include:
December 16, 2015 Release Date

- 2 episodes
- Ikeda Shouko design for digipak
- 16 page special booklet
> Character introduction: (Taki Noboru , Matsumoto Michie, Saito Aoi, Sasuki Azusa, Oumae Mamiko)
> Instrument Introduction (trumpet)
> Episode Commentary (last round, extra edition)
> Character design Ikeda Shouko character initial setting draft # 7
> Brass band Glossary
- Ogasawara Haruka illustration card by Ikeda Shouko
- Eye catch post cards

- Unaired short "everyday life of the brass band" #7


Cast Commentary
Kurosawa Tomoyo (Oumae Kumiko)
Asai Ayaka(Kato Hazuki)
Toyota Moe Kawashima Midori)
Anzai Chika (Kousaka Reina)

Staff Commentary
Ishihara Tatsuya (Director)
Hanada Jukki (series writer)
Yamada Naoko (series director)

[EroKing]

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Megami

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[Liddo-kun]

Originally Posted by TheEroKing

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Megami

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Thanks so much for the share King. They look nice in those outfits.

Currently hyped on this show.
Watching the specials. ^^

[ices]

https://mobile.twitter.com/anime_eup...11463912153093

that was announcement for Season 2, right?

[Nachtwandler]

Yes. S2 and the movie. Here's direct link:

http://anime-eupho.com/news/?id=69

[Marina2]

Wow, I did hope for the announcement but to think that it becomes real..........Season 2 and the movie on top of that. Good job Kyoani!!

So....the Second season for vol.2 and movie for vol 3 and Second season's OVA for vol.4 stories??

EDIT:
According to
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...-sequel/.94866

Look like the flim one will be recap (?)


.......................................

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"Look like this image came out with the annoucement

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[Liddo-kun]

Nice to know that a season 2 is already confirmed. A blessing indeed. )

[blakstealth]

Asuka looks so menacing in that pic.

[Akito Kinomoto]

Originally Posted by blakstealth

Asuka looks so menacing in that pic.

If that were a full body picture, the kanji for Messatsu would work so well here

[Marina2]

Visit http://anime-eupho.com/

There is a mini game. You can actually switch character postion in above picture around to make your OTP stay close to each other (Click on mascot and click on characer picture to switch position.)

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This is mine

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[wolfie74]

I'm actually amazed that the announcements came BEFORE the day of the Eupho events at the KyoAni-Do Fan Days Event but not complaining. Many Japanese tweeters and bloggers were already anticipating the news so it almost isn't a surprise.

Since they covered volume 1 in the first 13 episodes then my guess would be that volume 2 and 3 would be covered in the sequel and movie. There's so much material to cover. I wouldn't count the 4th volume. That's just a bunch of shorts and jarringly written because it didn't match up the prose of the brilliantly written first 3 novels. It almost seemed like an editorial mandate. But regardless, best news!


(Bringing this up since I don't think there IS a Eupho manga thread and no one would probably go there)

Also like to point out that we are getting a sequel to the manga as well. Konomanga just released the latest chapter of Eupho which takes after the trumpet re-auditions and straight to the competition. So it's behind. They post about 2 chapters per month.
but if anyone wants to check it out, the official manga is online at:
http://konomanga.jp/manga/euphonium



And after you finish the latest chapter you'll see the manga sequel announcement. Also it appears that the current mangaka for the Eupho series will continue. Some might remember the Eupho mangaka, Hami, from the yuri manga series called Girl Satellite published in the now defunct yuri publication called Tsubomi but Hami appears happy to continue the series.

By the way, here's an old interview with Hami. Hami points out that when first reading the novel she thought it was a yuri title lol. Not that I blame the mangaka. There's so much subtext in the novels that you'd think you were reading Marimite novels. At least this was my impression from finishing them. Some might interpret differently but just like Yamada Naoko had mentioned in the roundtable interview, I too was stimulated at some point which was weird.

Hami Interview
http://konomanga.jp/interview/35881-2

[I]Keep in mind that each chapter on the Konomanga website is posted for a short period of time. The only chapters that stay on permanently are the first 2 as they are there to introduce the reader to the series. Most of it is already compiled into 2 tankobans and a 3rd tankoban covering the remainder (up to the first competition) just got announced.

Eupho Manga Volume 1
http://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/480023968...=I1CWRPOHJ8VNJ

Eupho Manga Volume 2
http://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/480024183...I1TXPIC1OFB9OH



confirmation and congrats for a sequel decision from the Seiyuu

Tomoyo's tweet (Oumae Kumiko)
https://twitter.com/tomoyokurosawa/s...13697320312833

Ayaka's tweet (Kato Hazuki)
https://twitter.com/a_ayaka0511/stat...60474832547840

Moe's tweet (Kawashima Midori)
https://twitter.com/toyotamoe/status/660413811430572032


Other seiyuu like Chika (Kousaka Reina) and Yuri (Yuko-senpai) just did plenty of retweets.

--Wolfie

[BleedingUranium]

So excited!

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Hopefully the movie being a recap is like Sword Art Online's Extra Edition, which was a recap told in-universe as flashbacks from all the characters' perspectives, giving good character insight despite being a recap, then the last 20 minutes was a whole new episode.


I'm hoping these links work, here are the character pics from that new poster/minigame thing:

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[wolfie74]

Originally Posted by BleedingUranium

So excited!

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Hopefully the movie being a recap is like Sword Art Online's Extra Edition, which was a recap told in-universe as flashbacks from all the characters' perspectives, giving good character insight despite being a recap, then the last 20 minutes was a whole new episode.

This had me curious since I only read the official tweet but it does say the movie's a look back at the journey.
http://anime-eupho.com/news/?id=69

So I wonder if it's going to be more than 13 episodes. If they're are covering Nozomi/Mizore arc and Asuka's arc than they would need more than 13. Asuka's arc was pretty heavy and NOT worth skipping over. I'm pretty sure you of all people would LOVE to see Asuka's story. It's a doozy. And it took a whole 3 volumes JUST to get to the Nationals. So much material to cover.

--Wolfie

[BleedingUranium]

Originally Posted by wolfie74

This had me curious since I only read the official tweet but it does say the movie's a look back at the journey.
http://anime-eupho.com/news/?id=69

So I wonder if it's going to be more than 13 episodes. If they're are covering Nozomi/Mizore arc and Asuka's arc than they would need more than 13. Asuka's arc was pretty heavy and NOT worth skipping over. I'm pretty sure you of all people would LOVE to see Asuka's story. It's a doozy. And it took a whole 3 volumes JUST to get to the Nationals. So much material to cover.

--Wolfie

It's safe to say they're planning on finishing the story now, so it will either be a standard-length season for Volume 2, then another standard-length season for Volume 3 in 2017, or more likely it will be a double-length second season that covers both, à la K-ON!.

Don't say any more about Asuka's arc, I really want to watch it without spoilers.