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[Tsuyoshi]

Originally Posted by Irenicus

Do you really want to judge the standards of Liberté, égalité, fraternité through the baseline of an oppressive Medieval theocratic state?

And if I do?

But no, my point is that considering they always complain about how we expose them to our culture in our own country when they do exactly that in theirs (and we don't utter a word of complaint about it), I don't think it's fair that they come in Europe and walk like they own the place. Granted, I'm not saying they shouldn't be given the freedom to do as they please, but they should respect the fact that this is not their home so they don't have a right to say how we should run our country.

Originally Posted by Irenicus

That said, full body veils are public safety concerns, so I would agree with the results of the decision, though not necessarily the motives.

This is also very true.

[Irenicus]

Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo

But no, my point is that considering they always complain about how we expose them to our culture in our own country when they do exactly that in theirs (and we don't utter a word of complaint about it), I don't think it's fair that they come in Europe and walk like they own the place. Granted, I'm not saying they shouldn't be given the freedom to do as they please, but they should respect the fact that this is not their home so they don't have a right to say how we should run our country.

They actually do own the place, by the standards of most European concepts of citizenship. A large number of Muslims in European countries including France are second-, third-generation immigrants or even earlier, with the watershed being the wave of immigration during the decolonization process. They are your citizens, Muslims, Christians, or hardcore secularists. That France failed miserably to integrate them and caused persistent social problems to this day is hardly the fault of Islamic doctrine but rather an issue of policy failure on a grand scale. The huge apartment housing built in the Parisian banlieues during the 70's and 80's and inhabited largely by the poor and the immigrated, for example, created isolated areas with limited opportunities that resemble the American ghettos. If those kids riot, it's not Islam, it's socio-economic.

Rather, I distrust the French far-right's portrayal of all non-white "foreigners" as immigrants and visitors at least as much as I despise the patriarchal oppression expressed in "Islamist" values. They share, after all, a terrible, terrible heritage with certain ostracized groups across the Rhine.

[Tsuyoshi]

I won't say I know much about France and I'll leave that to someone else to talk about. But we have a very similar problem in Italy, though I wouldn't blame the government and economic failings of policy making on Islamic doctrine. Those two are entirely separate matters to me. What I'm saying is, be they European citizens or not, they have to understand they live in a free country where people are allowed to practice virtually anything they want. So complaining about a crucifix in an elementary school within a country where the dominant religion is Christanity is out of place, for example. They have to expect that sort of symbolism around in various places.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Irenicus

They actually do own the place, by the standards of most European concepts of citizenship. A large number of Muslims in European countries including France are second-, third-generation immigrants or even earlier, with the watershed being the wave of immigration during the decolonization process. They are your citizens, Muslims, Christians, or hardcore secularists.

Which doesn't give them the right to break our laws. They have to put up with the same kind of restrictions as the rest of us do, and if their neighbors do something legal that annoys them (like eating pork)... well, tough break. If they want to live under Islamic law, they've picked the wrong country, but we aren't keeping them here. They can go away and send us postcards.

I'd also like to note that most immigrants are actually fine with the whole "living in France under French law" thing. I don't see the need to dignify a vocal, destructive minority with much consideration.

That France failed miserably to integrate them and caused persistent social problems to this day is hardly the fault of Islamic doctrine but rather an issue of policy failure on a grand scale. The huge apartment housing built in the Parisian banlieues during the 70's and 80's and inhabited largely by the poor and the immigrated, for example, created isolated areas with limited opportunities that resemble the American ghettos. If those kids riot, it's not Islam, it's socio-economic.

Rather, I distrust the French far-right's portrayal of all non-white "foreigners" as immigrants and visitors at least as much as I despise the patriarchal oppression expressed in "Islamist" values. They share, after all, a terrible, terrible heritage with certain ostracized groups across the Rhine.

Eh. Screw that shit. The children of Arab immigrants get the same free education and various opportunities that I did (son of Vietnamese immigrants that I am). It's up to them to make the most of it. Some did, more power to them. As for those who didn't... Well, I'm not going to blame it on their religion, or their origins. But I'm not going to blame it on the government either.


It's funny. A white guy sets a car on fire, he's just a vandal. A member of an "ethnic minority" does it, and he's either "representative of the dangers of immigration" or "a symptom of the malaise created by the fascist policies of the tyrannical, reactionary government". Personally, I prefer to think of him as a vandal either way.

[Irenicus]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Which doesn't give them the right to break our laws. They have to put up with the same kind of restrictions as the rest of us do, and if their neighbors do something legal that annoys them (like eating pork)... well, tough break. If they want to live under Islamic law, they've picked the wrong country, but we aren't keeping them here. They can go away and send us postcards.

I'd also like to note that most immigrants are actually fine with the whole "living in France under French law" thing. I don't see the need to dignify a vocal, destructive minority with much consideration.

I think you're misunderstanding me if you believe that I think somebody -- citizens, immigrants, Venusians -- just because of their beliefs should be able to tell you that you can't eat pork or put on bikinis at leisure.

Now of course there are some things that I think France as an institution should never compromise -- the sovereignty of secular laws as opposed to imported tribal behavior codes for one -- and I've just mentioned that I agreed with this measure. I'm just very, very wary of the kind of rhetoric that backs it up.

Besides, the way I read Yoko Takeo's post it feels as if he's dismissing the entire Muslim community as a subversively foreign, element. My post in response to that was to tell him that no, many of these aren't foreign people, they are as European as any even if their ancestors don't say Ave Maria. It doesn't mean that just because they really are as European he is I'll excuse them for supporting questionable things.

Eh. Screw that shit. The children of Arab immigrants get the same free education and various opportunities that I did (son of Vietnamese immigrants that I am). It's up to them to make the most of it. Some did, more power to them. As for those who didn't... Well, I'm not going to blame it on their religion, or their origins. But I'm not going to blame it on the government either.

It's funny. A white guy sets a car on fire, he's just a vandal. A member of an "ethnic minority" does it, and he's either "representative of the dangers of immigration" or "a symptom of the malaise created by the fascist policies of the tyrannical, reactionary government". Personally, I prefer to think of him as a vandal either way.

A single vandalism is the vandal's fault. A whole situation of vandals involve looking deeper into underlying causes. I'm not saying that just because one is slightly oppressed one has the license to burn everything of the bourgeoisie, but rather if you isolate people in ghetto-ized communities, you get angry aimless young men doing stupid shit. That kind of problem isn't solved by laying blame on someone's original culture or demonizing them as hopeless cases to be thrown in a cell somewhere and forgotten -- not, at least, if you actually want to solve the problem in the long run. Carrot and stick, etc., etc.

Yours hardly strike me as an unreasonable opinion. My antagonism is really directed more at those nativist types (I'm not including Yoko Takeo in there) who seem to have a disproportionately loud voice (if fortunately not nearly loud enough) in European politics. You know, BNP, Vlaams Belang, that fucker Le Pen. Those guys.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Irenicus

I think you're misunderstanding me if you believe that I think somebody -- citizens, immigrants, Venusians -- just because of their beliefs should be able to tell you that you can't eat pork or put on bikinis at leisure.

Now of course there are some things that I think France as an institution should never compromise -- the sovereignty of secular laws as opposed to imported tribal behavior codes for one -- and I've just mentioned that I agreed with this measure. I'm just very, very wary of the kind of rhetoric that backs it up.

Yeah... Bit of a vicious circle, there. Part of the reason that rhetoric's used and is so effective is that agitators demand more "respect" for their beliefs. I mean, France has been eating pork since before there was a France, but they come here and all of a sudden it's provocation and pork meat shops must close? And of course, the reason those agitators have an audience is that there are all those racists out there who want to force women to dress indecently. And so on.

A single vandalism is the vandal's fault. A whole situation of vandals involve looking deeper into underlying causes. I'm not saying that just because one is slightly oppressed one has the license to burn everything of the bourgeoisie,

They're not attacking the bourgeoisie's possessions. They're attacking their neighbors'. Also immigrants and poor, but, you know, hardworking. It's not the rich or the police who trash their places, their "ghettoes". It's them.

but rather if you isolate people in ghetto-ized communities, you get angry aimless young men doing stupid shit.

Isolate? We have a very good public transportation system. Which would be even better if they didn't stone buses or assault drivers.

That kind of problem isn't solved by laying blame on someone's original culture or demonizing them as hopeless cases to be thrown in a cell somewhere and forgotten -- not, at least, if you actually want to solve the problem in the long run. Carrot and stick, etc., etc.

It's not going to be solved by forgetting their personal responsibility and demanding they be coddled, either. The fact it's every bit as patronizing aside, we just can't afford it. If they want to succeed - and I'm talking about having a reasonably paying job success, not incredible amount of money for little work success - they'll just have to be hardworking and disciplined, like the rest of us.

Yours hardly strike me as an unreasonable opinion. My antagonism is really directed more at those nativist types (I'm not including Yoko Takeo in there) who seem to have a disproportionately loud voice (if fortunately not nearly loud enough) in European politics. You know, BNP, Vlaams Belang, that fucker Le Pen. Those guys.

Meh. Le Pen's a non issue. People vote for him mostly to say "screw you" to the big parties... and these days, they've found other guys to do that.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Isolate? We have a very good public transportation system. Which would be even better if they didn't stone buses or assault drivers.

Which quickly turned into isolation back when there was rioting, resulting in the public transit workers refusing to go into the ghettos.

[Joojoobees]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

Miyazaki: iPad Users “Nothing But Chronic Masturbators”

That I just don't get. I mean that is as much an argument against going to a movie theater as anything else. Who is going to know exactly what it was like to work a trireme? Does watching Kiki's Delivery Service in a movie theater give you the knowledge of what it is like to grip a broomstick and fly through the air?

[0utf0xZer0]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Meh, Miyazaki and Prince are sitting on the prairie banging their rocks together while the rest of tribe is taking up archery. Seriously, ... *read* what Miyazaki says and it make no sense at all. This guy was annoyed when people started *reading* (manga) on trains.

I remember the first time I saw a "touch/glide" input ... and yeah, I make the same jokes about "stroking your device" (and I still think its a stupid way to input) but sheesh, I don't use whale oil lamps either and we've got indoor plumbing.

Amusingly enough, I think that statement resulted in the first time I've ever heard Miyazaki referred to as "this guy" - HardOCP gave him a "quote of the day" news post.

(Edit: I wonder if Miyazaki realizes that Steve Jobs is the largest shareholder in his US distributor.)

Also, I remember waiting for a train with my best friend from high school and discussing how the iPad's capacitive touchscreen would make it possible to operate with various body parts... let's just say that Apple is missing out on a goldmine by not allowing porn in the app store.

[chikorita157]

Miyazaki is simply out of touch with technology since he has a strong hate for technology in general. I think the strange gestures can also apply to other touchscreen devices, not just iPads such as touchscreen smartphones like the iPhone/Blackberry Storm/Droid phones that have the same exact gestures. Also, how about laptops? Most laptops have multitouch gestures... are he against laptops too?

It doesn't help his dislike towards all modern anime/manga either. I really wished that he would lighten up and give technology a chance. Surely, technology had its up and downs, but hating it because its different is wrong. Also, society shouldn't depend so much on using technology to socialize as we getting away from the traditional face to face conversation and using Facebook or texting instead. Not much of an issue since I don't keep in touch with my real life friends anymore. I only talk to my fellow anime bloggers, but I would be better I could meet them in person, but different locations prevent that.

Don't get me wrong, I like and enjoyed Miyazaki's works... I just don't agree with his beliefs in general.

[Joojoobees]

Originally Posted by chikorita157

I think the strange gestures can also apply to other touchscreen devices, not just iPads

LOL, when you think about it that way, even writing on paper (gently rubbing its surface with a stick) sounds kinky.

I would like to say Miyazaki has a point about rebalancing our priorities or something, but the techno-antagonism just doesn't mesh with humanity's nature as a tool-user.

[0utf0xZer0]

Originally Posted by chikorita157

It doesn't help his dislike towards all modern anime/manga either. I really wished that he would lighten up and give technology a chance. Surely, technology had its up and downs, but hating it because its different is wrong. Also, society shouldn't depend so much on using technology to socialize as we getting away from the traditional face to face conversation and using Facebook or texting instead. Not much of an issue since I don't keep in touch with my real life friends anymore. I only talk to my fellow anime bloggers, but I would be better I could meet them in person, but different locations prevent that.

To be fair to the guy, I do hear the rest of the article that line is from has some valid points about things like how people don't strike up conversations on transit anymore and how many new technologies are more consumption than creation oriented. However, he failed to realize that sort of provocative language tends to overshadow any point you might be trying to make with all but the most reasonable people. I imagine the fact that the article is apparently originally from a company newsletter had something to do with the lack of diplomacy.

[Kamui4356]

George Steinbrenner, owner of the NY Yankees died today of a massive heart attack.


http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/07/13/ste...ex.html?hpt=C2

George Steinbrenner: Baseball's 'Boss' leaves behind a legend

(CNN) -- Demanding, vilified, legendary. "The Boss" of baseball, George Steinbrenner, turned 80 on the Fourth of July.

The birthday of the New York Yankees' owner passed without much fanfare, at least according to sports reporters who were covering an exhibition game at Steinbrenner Field in Tampa, Florida. It was a sweltering day and Steinbrenner sat in his air-conditioned suite.

Well-wishes flashed on the JumboTron: "Happy 80th!"

It brought scattered applause. The game resumed.

Yankees pitcher Andy Pettitte, a five-time champion and legend in his own right, went to check on Steinbrenner, The New York Times reported. The two talked about how the Yankees were doing. The Boss was simple and direct, as usual.

Steinbrenner, the owner of seven World Series trophies and 11 pennants, told Pettitte that the Yankees needed to step it up. They needed to win more games.

The pitcher recounted to The Times:

"We were losing 1-0 or 2-0, and he said, 'We need to score some runs,'" Pettitte said. "So I said, 'Well, it's early, we might score some runs.'

"He said, 'We'd better.' To me, that summed it up right there. OK, it's him."

Steinbrenner died Tuesday of a massive heart attack in Tampa, his adopted hometown.

[FDW]

Originally Posted by Kamui4356

George Steinbrenner, owner of the NY Yankees died today of a massive heart attack.


http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/07/13/ste...ex.html?hpt=C2

YAY!!! Maybe the Yankee's will start sucking.

[Nosauz]

Originally Posted by chikorita157

Miyazaki is simply out of touch with technology since he has a strong hate for technology in general. I think the strange gestures can also apply to other touchscreen devices, not just iPads such as touchscreen smartphones like the iPhone/Blackberry Storm/Droid phones that have the same exact gestures. Also, how about laptops? Most laptops have multitouch gestures... are he against laptops too?

It doesn't help his dislike towards all modern anime/manga either. I really wished that he would lighten up and give technology a chance. Surely, technology had its up and downs, but hating it because its different is wrong. Also, society shouldn't depend so much on using technology to socialize as we getting away from the traditional face to face conversation and using Facebook or texting instead. Not much of an issue since I don't keep in touch with my real life friends anymore. I only talk to my fellow anime bloggers, but I would be better I could meet them in person, but different locations prevent that.

Don't get me wrong, I like and enjoyed Miyazaki's works... I just don't agree with his beliefs in general.

He was talking about translating experiences from digital to the real, he wants people to not just look at zeroes and ones, he wants people to actually feel, undergo the experience of living, and to "create" those moments for ourselves and not let technology dictate our lives. Even from just the excerpts found on SankakuComplex it was no way as negative as some have implied. He was talking about a trieme, and without ever having experiencing that instance, he would never be able to describe those facts, and how they felt.

[TinyRedLeaf]

Originally Posted by chikorita157

Miyazaki is simply out of touch with technology since he has a strong hate for technology in general. I think the strange gestures can also apply to other touchscreen devices, not just iPads such as touchscreen smartphones like the iPhone/Blackberry Storm/Droid phones that have the same exact gestures. Also, how about laptops? Most laptops have multitouch gestures... are he against laptops too?

It doesn't help his dislike towards all modern anime/manga either. I really wished that he would lighten up and give technology a chance. Surely, technology had its up and downs, but hating it because its different is wrong. Also, society shouldn't depend so much on using technology to socialize as we getting away from the traditional face to face conversation and using Facebook or texting instead. Not much of an issue since I don't keep in touch with my real life friends anymore. I only talk to my fellow anime bloggers, but I would be better I could meet them in person, but different locations prevent that.

Don't get me wrong, I like and enjoyed Miyazaki's works... I just don't agree with his beliefs in general.

First and foremost, I'm sceptical about the extent to which I can consider Sankaku Complex a credible "news source". I am unable to find alternative sources corroborating what Miyazaki allegedly said and that alone should ring some alarm bells.

And people complain about biased media. Hmm... I contend that people get the news they deserve.

Secondly, I highly suspect that Miyazaki has been quoted out of context. Like Nosauz suggested, he was likely frustrated by how an increasing reliance on technology is isolating us from real-life experiences, and that is a trend that psychologists have been trying to study of late. There are increasing cases of people who are choosing simulated experience over real-world experience and Internet addiction is, in fact, becoming a noticeable phenomenon.

Whether or not that is a source of concern is, of course, up for debate. However, being a person who has dedicated his entire life to a very specific, backbreaking craft — animation — Miyazaki is understandably angry at how technology is undermining the art.

This is a familiar issue that we've come across whenever new communication technologies clash against established media traditions. We could, for example, argue that the advent of Twitter and text messaging is undermining the art and craft of long-form writing. It's not just print or handwritten essays, but also blogs that are suffering from this emerging trend.

So, when put in context, Miyazaki is not as much as a luddite as Sankaku Complex is making him out to be.

[killer3000ad]

Dancing Auschwitz survivor and family at the death camp sparks outrage

So a man who survived Auschiwtz returned there with his Australian grandkids, and they made a video of them dancing at the place to the tune of "I Will Survive" obviously to symbolise his survival and subsequent descendants. Some however have found it tasteless and offensive.

[TinyRedLeaf]

Sanyo launches world's first rice-bread cooker

Let's brew~~~

[chikorita157]

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

To be fair to the guy, I do hear the rest of the article that line is from has some valid points about things like how people don't strike up conversations on transit anymore and how many new technologies are more consumption than creation oriented. However, he failed to realize that sort of provocative language tends to overshadow any point you might be trying to make with all but the most reasonable people. I imagine the fact that the article is apparently originally from a company newsletter had something to do with the lack of diplomacy.

I had mentioned the effects of tech and face to face conversations in my last post. It's true that people are doing it less these days since there is stuff like texting and social networks. It seems that most teenagers and college students spend way to much time on their phones checking the Facebook and text people continulously. The addiction of social networks and texting is a problem since there is less real life interaction and more on the cellphone or computer.

I think the outrageous language pretty much gave a negative overall perception on the issue, but he has valid points.

And yes, I do own a iPad (which is jailbroken) and I create blog posts on it. If you seen other people drawing stuff on these devices, content creation is possible as long you have the software.

Secondly, I highly suspect that Miyazaki has been quoted out of context. Like Nosauz suggested, he was likely frustrated by how an increasing reliance on technology is isolating us from real-life experiences, and that is a trend that psychologists have been trying to study of late. There are increasing cases of people who are choosing simulated experience over real-world experience and Internet addiction is, in fact, becoming a noticeable phenomenon.

Whether or not that is a source of concern is, of course, up for debate. However, being a person who has dedicated his entire life to a very specific, backbreaking craft — animation — Miyazaki is understandably angry at how technology is undermining the art.

This is a familiar issue that we've come across whenever new communication technologies clash against established media traditions. We could, for example, argue that the advent of Twitter and text messaging is undermining the art and craft of long-form writing. It's not just print or handwritten essays, but also blogs that are suffering from this emerging trend.

It's not easy to avoid technology since it's all over the place. I do think that people should not overuse technology and experience the outside world. It's understandable that he is angry about technology, but he shouldn't shun it since there is no avoiding it. People need to use it in moderation and not let it control them. For example, do you really need to text every minute of your life or check your Facebook/Twitter every 5 minutes? I don't. While easy accessibility to communication and social networks is useful, it can potentially harm the person in the end. This is the reason I don't rely on it, except Twitter, which I only make a few updates a day.

Besides, I would rather blog about Anime than tweeting about it on Twitter since I always have lots to say about it.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

First and foremost, I'm sceptical about the extent to which I can consider Sankaku Complex a credible "news source". I am unable to find alternative sources corroborating what Miyazaki allegedly said and that alone should ring some alarm bells.

And people complain about biased media. Hmm... I contend that people get the news they deserve.

I do believe that Sankaku quotes of their sources from Japanese newsblogs, and in this case, it is said to come from Studio Ghibli's in-house mag.

And Outfox might be right : I believe Steve Jobs holds most of Ghibli's US distribution rights.

Secondly, I highly suspect that Miyazaki has been quoted out of context. Like Nosauz suggested, he was likely frustrated by how an increasing reliance on technology is isolating us from real-life experiences, and that is a trend that psychologists have been trying to study of late. There are increasing cases of people who are choosing simulated experience over real-world experience and Internet addiction is, in fact, becoming a noticeable phenomenon.

Whether or not that is a source of concern is, of course, up for debate. However, being a person who has dedicated his entire life to a very specific, backbreaking craft — animation — Miyazaki is understandably angry at how technology is undermining the art.

This is a familiar issue that we've come across whenever new communication technologies clash against established media traditions. We could, for example, argue that the advent of Twitter and text messaging is undermining the art and craft of long-form writing. It's not just print or handwritten essays, but also blogs that are suffering from this emerging trend.

Not quite....with cellphone light novels being circulated and written in Japan, I would think of modern communications as a new media of distribution. The "side effects on the industry", however (and from my observation), seems to come from "study groups" hedging to keep "piracy in check". The core suspicion of such an action, is of course, profit protection.

To sidetrack a little to the topic of "dependence" and "addiction" to "new media", one thing I hear most people ranting about is "internet addiction", and even certain "community psychiatrists" (I seriously wonder where they get their accreditation from) classifying introverts and "knowledge addicts" under that category. It is true some of them spend up to 13 hours a day playing online games with no real benefit to their mental well-being, but I would like to contest the percentage significance of the overall net-users demographic in which this test is carried out.

Similarly with the previous generation since the inception of TV, and way before that of radio, "addiction" is just another word used out of context in the modern world. Proof? Google "Great depression" with "radio" and "world cup" with "television".

And yes. I have seen more and more blogs written in the Primary 1 way of "describe the picture". I wish they are much less annoying to read than my nephew's homework.

If technology is undermining art, why don't he make an animation like "Thief II" crossed with the "dark ages" ending of Deus Ex 1?

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

Sanyo launches world's first rice-bread cooker

Let's brew~~~

You know, this phrase :

SANYO is aiming to contribute to improving the reliability of food and rate of self-sufficiency in Japan by proposing a concept of "Healthy, happy rice life for all people in the world" for the future.

reminds me of :


For those who don't know, she's Keena Soga from Ichiban Ushiro No Dai Maou. She's a rice addict.

Then again, thank goodness it isn't marketed through a anime character or people will start replacing the first letter of the product with "N".

Growth outlook cut running into next year

(Reuters) - Recent evidence the economic recovery may be slowing has prompted analysts to scale back their expectations for the pace of growth into next year, a Reuters poll showed.

Persistently high unemployment, along with disappointing May retail sales data and evidence that the housing market continues to struggle have contributed to a significant reining in of expectations compared with just a month ago.

The median of forecasts in a survey of almost 100 economists taken in the past week pegs annualized U.S. second-quarter gross domestic product at 3.3 percent, down from 3.5 percent in the last Reuters poll taken in June.

GDP growth is expected to ease to 2.6 percent in the third quarter (from 3.0 percent), 2.7 percent in the fourth quarter (2.8 percent), and 2.6 percent in the first three months of next year (2.7 percent).

For the full year 2010, the median of forecasts for growth was chopped to 3 percent from 3.2 percent in the June poll. That was the first downgrade in the last eight polls but the range of forecasts was narrower, indicating a hardening view.

"There has been some concern about a tightening in financial conditions and how that is filtering through to consumer and business confidence and the economy," said Jonathan Basile, economist at Credit Suisse in New York.

"And those tighter financial conditions are part of the reason why there is a scaling back of expectations for growth."

There is also widespread uncertainty about how the second quarter just ended will look. Out of 51 common contributors, 27 downgraded their GDP forecasts and only 8 upgraded them.

For the third quarter, the situation was similar. Out of those same 51, 24 downgraded and five upgraded.

U.S. data on housing, employment and sales have generally disappointed over the past two months, undermining U.S. stocks and bolstering lower risk Treasury debt prices, sending yields plummeting.

Slower economic growth and subdued inflation will likely mean the Federal Reserve will be in no hurry to raise interest rates from their current ultra-low level near zero, according to the results of the survey.

The median of forecasts called for a fed funds rate of 0.125 percent -- the middle of the U.S. central bank's current range of zero to 0.25 percent -- through the third and fourth quarters of this year, and then for the rate to be fixed at 0.25 percent in the first quarter of next year.

Last month, the median forecast called for the Fed to fix rates at 0.25 percent in the fourth quarter of this year, then boost them to 0.50 percent in the first quarter of next year.

"It is going to require a lot more growth to start to move the economy forward on a basis that feels acceptable," Basile said.

"Even if we are moving forward but we are not moving forward fast enough to bring unemployment down, then that is not going to feel like we are out of recession."

The poll showed the U.S. unemployment rate will average 9 percent or above for all but one quarter in the forecast horizon. It is expected to average to 8.7 percent in the final three months of 2011.

Despite scaling back growth forecasts, economists still ascribe only a minimal median 15 percent chance the U.S. will experience a double-dip recession.

"A double-dip is unlikely, but the risks are tilted toward the downside," said Scott Brown, chief economist at Raymond James & Associates in St. Petersburg, Florida.

Indeed, the outlook for next year is shaky. The range of forecasts provided for 2011 GDP was in a spread of 3.2 percentage points, the widest since polling for this began in January.

Expectations for price inflation are also being pulled back, with the median of forecasts calling for the consumer price index to rise by 1.6 percent in 2010, down from a forecast 2010 CPI rise of 1.8 in the June poll.