Gundam 00 Movie: A wakening of the Trailblazer - Discussion

[SonicSP]

I've forgotten all about that. That was such an awesome compilation.

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Regarding the Drive discussion.

The big problem for them be that they're GN Drive supply is cut by a further 50% if Harute's is destroyed. That's going to put a strain on their recharging schedule given how they're plan was to bet on the new Twin Drive with most of their leftover resources. Harute and Zabanya being badly damaged probably doesn't help considering how stretched they're resources are. They might have to start asking Tieria to do "bad" stuff for them, like Ian was reluctant to do,

But I'm thinking they might have to rely more on Tau Drives now maybe in addition to some Large Condensers. They're already using one with GRM Gundam, so they don't really have a philosophical aversion to it and would have a way to handle the maintanence. And I guess if we were to count Tieria's faction as part of them, we would even have a combat intervention exampls in the Innovator Wars. Tau Drives also seemingly have a higher operational time than Large Condensers.

Of course using their NGN series machines isn't a bad either if its sufficient. That would be less of a burden in the particle supply since they use less GN Particles than Large Condenser suits,

[Mad Pierrot]

By the way, did we ever get an explanation to why the ELS took the form of Ribbons?

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by amaterasu4

By the way, did we ever get an explanation to why the ELS took the form of Ribbons?

It wasn't Ribbons, but another Innovade that had been a part of the Jupiter expedition's crew. His name was Sky Eclipse, as revealed in supplementary info and in a freeze-frame bonus when CB discusses the attack on Louise--among the info they list on the crewmember is the Innovade's name. Presumably, it took on his form due to it infecting his corpse when they assimilated the ship.

[AnimeFangirl]

The movie was a bit too long. Too many scenes just flying around fighting those metal thingies. We get it, they're scary, they're implacable, now can we move on? Captain Shaman was wasted too. No character epilogues? Billy and the Mina girl? Patrick and Kati? Did Lyle ever find a new girl? Did Feldt wait for Setsuna forever? Those are the important details!

On the other hand the guy that sent Sergei to his death got his just deserts. Sweet. And Aeolia's theory that if humans turn into Innovators then they'll be able to communicate with alien life and save the earth turned out to be kinda true, kinda not true. You'd have to give everyone Gundams and a Veda terminal to make it possible. But it's a start.

I got the "we can understand each other" message way back in the original series, not sure I needed a movie to hammer it home. But it is what it is and it does wrap up the series nicely. Phew. I'm all Gundammed out.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by AnimeFangirl

I got the "we can understand each other" message way back in the original series, not sure I needed a movie to hammer it home.

I agree with you on that part. The movie really shove that idea down the audience throat, and you'll notice it more when you rewatch it.

Originally Posted by AnimeFangirl

But it is what it is and it does wrap up the series nicely. Phew. I'm all Gundammed out.

What's your impression about the post-credit scene with Setsuna & Marina?

[AnimeFangirl]

"Ah so."

....Is what I wanted to post, but Animesuki said my message is too short so here's some padding.

I mean after 50 years Setsuna pops up just to tell her "Hey girl, you were right." Even though most of the anime and all of the movie had been dedicated to Marina's message of understanding each other so we all knew that already. What else can I say but "Ah, so."

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by AnimeFangirl

"Ah so."

....Is what I wanted to post, but Animesuki said my message is too short so here's some padding.

I mean after 50 years Setsuna pops up just to tell her "Hey girl, you were right." Even though most of the anime and all of the movie had been dedicated to Marina's message of understanding each other so we all knew that already. What else can I say but "Ah, so."

I personally think the scene implies that Setsuna is about to take Marina with him after so long. To a better and more peaceful and beautiful (alien) world. And probably make her young again somehow (the manga supported that idea, more or less ).

[AnimeFangirl]

I haven't read the manga so I wouldn't know. I didn't get that implication at all, nor any indication that she would want to leave the Earth and go space traveling. And the Earth is plenty beautiful and peaceful in the ending so what's the need to take her away? But if she does want to go and they do go, good for them. The show sank the Marina x Setsuna ship with all the force of a colony drop so it's hard for me to get excited about it now.

[Rising Dragon]

It wasn't really a ship in the first place. Just fandom's insistence that any meaningful interaction between a man and woman must involve or imply romance.

[AnimeFangirl]

Either way Marina and Setsuna repeatedly deny that there's anything special between them. So when he shows up at the end to give her a hug, all I can say is "Ah so."

[SonicSP]

I'm not sure what has been discussedbut one of the things the movie does a really poor job on is how exactly Innovation is happening. The movie only mentions that Innovations (like Setsuna's) are happening but doesn't explain the cause.

The movie also did a poor job explaining the ELS culture and thought process, which is elaborated in 00N. It's more than just finding another planet to live.

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Wait, surely humanity aren’t naïve enough as to explore the vastness of space without military technology, right? No matter how peaceful your mission is, you still need to defend yourself from unexpected threats. Even the Starfleet from Star Trek (which is arguably a very peaceful organization at its core) believes in “violence when necessary”. You can't just rely on hopes. What would you do if the aliens totally intend to blast your ass in the first place?

What we can confirm is that they threw most of their military away or at least minimized them to an extreme degree. I might need to reread the 00N final chapter translation but basically military machines are mainly a thing of the past I recalled which is why they are a collector's items.

That doesn't mean they don't have the technology to make them again (the Sakibure for example can quantum teleport and it's a glorified workloader) and that also doesn't mean they have zero capability of self defense but the part about giving up the military speaks a lot about the mindset.

The ESF dialing down their military even further after the movie (it was already nerfed between Season 2 and the Movie for obvious political reason) is confirmed in one of the 00V Senki chapters because the ELS gave them a star charts of all the nearby civilizations in the sector chances of another encounter is close to 0.

It should also note that the ESF is mentioned to be actively implementing the plan now after they started having access to Veda (though obviously Tieria locks some parts down). The military drawdown is premably part of it.

I assume the exploration expedition to meet other starts around the movie epilogue's time where humanity is actively going out and finding new ones.

However, one thing to keep in mind is that humanity is allies with the ELS now. The ELS on Earth and around there during the initial first contact period more or less stayed in Earth. The good thing about having ELS is that they can "become" weapons. I assume that's the rational justification behind using self defense as needed thing. This strategy isn't mentioned in any of the supplementary materials I recall but seems to be one of the obvious advantages of having ELS around.

They really are pretty nice and the "conflict" in the movie only happened because humans are the first race they encountered where mass assimilation is a BAD thing and they stopped when Setsuna got in and said "Forced full assimiliation is NOT cool for us, bro" and they were like "Sorry my man, we mean no harm".

What Aeolia specifically had in mind for his own colony ship is hard to decipher though. The Celestial Being colony ship had plenty of weapons but it was also under Ribbons control for awhile. Based on the way the sourcebooks speaks of the third phase of the plan (post Innovation and deep space exploration followed by Dialogues to Come), his first priority is very much getting rid of human warlike tendency and preventing a war with aliens by using the Quantum Brainwave Field to establish communications and emphathy sharing between the species. Military is at the very least secondary or a minimal factor.

I assume humanity has some method of self defense method because it's reported that Setsuna fought later war with Billy's son after the movie epilogue. I presume at a minimum ELS Qan(T) and the rest of the ELS can transform into a weapon.

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Usually I'm a hardcore citation person and I like to be very specific about what info comes from what book but it's been years (OMG I can't believe it's been 7 years since this movie came out) and my old sourcebook translation files that I copy pasted are not on a cloud drive and is.......somewhere in one of the gazillion plus storage devices I own. If so ever find it again, I'm soooooo Dropboxing it.

Might need to go back to the old Gundam 00 forums and salvage some text but the Photobucket shutdown has led to a lot of old forums being nigh unreadable.

[AnimeFangirl]

Originally Posted by SonicSP

However, one thing to keep in mind is that humanity is allies with the ELS now. The ELS on Earth and around there during the initial first contact period more or less stayed in Earth. The good thing about having ELS is that they can "become" weapons.

Interesting. So part of the reason why Earth demilitarized is that in a pinch they can count on the ELS to zergrush the enemy to death? That does make sense.

I wish 00 wasn't so dependent on supplementary material though. All the other Gundams I've seen made perfect sense on their own and the supplements were just that, supplements.

[SonicSP]

Originally Posted by AnimeFangirl

I wish 00 wasn't so dependent on supplementary material though. All the other Gundams I've seen made perfect sense on their own and the supplements were just that, supplements.

I agree, Gundam 00 is my favorite Gundam show and I love it to death but this is one of it's huge weaknesses.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by SonicSP

I assume humanity has some method of self defense method because it's reported that Setsuna fought later war with Billy's son after the movie epilogue. I presume at a minimum ELS Qan(T) and the rest of the ELS can transform into a weapon.

Did you mean the Innovator War? Didn't you say that ELS remain neutral in that war in the past pages? If the Federation is demilitarized and war is obsolete, how can that Innovator war happen? What do they use to wage war other than Setsuna's ELS Qan(T) & Tieria's Raphael? Do they use those Sakibures to battle?

[Rising Dragon]

The ELS did remain neutral during the Innovator War, yes. Setsuna is still at least partially human though, and if he still holds true to his ideals then he would intervene in some manner, likely through use of the Quantum System.

The full demilitarization of the Federation likely happened after the Innovator War, because we know they were involved in the fighting, as was Celestial Being (seeing how the Raphael Dominions showed up during one battle). And we know the Innovator War only ended when it became apparent to everyone that the evolution of mankind into Innovators was going to happen where they liked it or not.

But only the whole, the Innovator War was a human conflict. If another extraterrestrial threat happened to humanity, then it's likely that the ELS would step in to protect their allies, since they're now familiar with the biological differences between humans and themselves. That's likely the angle Sonic's working from.

[SonicSP]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Did you mean the Innovator War? Didn't you say that ELS remain neutral in that war in the past pages? If the Federation is demilitarized and war is obsolete, how can that Innovator war happen? What do they use to wage war other than Setsuna's ELS Qan(T) & Tieria's Raphael? Do they use those Sakibures to battle?

Also a good time to mention that the ESF Army was really really gutted at the start of the movie compared to what we it was during Season 2 where there was a total of 1000 GN-XIIIs and 100 Aheads in the entire government arsenal. Final Mechanic book gives us some detail I recall of the fleet comparison in the movie.

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The Innovator War happened relatively soon after the movie (which took place in 2314), so the ESF was more or less still armed. In fact, it was a rebellion by minority Anti-ELS/Anti-Innovator faction in the ESF Army.

A Gadelaza piloted by a Pseudo Innovator was involved in that war on the Anti ELS side. We also saw GN-XIV equipped with Core Fighters, since many pilots died in the ELS conflict and it was used for better survivabilitt.

The part where there is no more war on Earth and demilitarilization was more far into the future, around the movie epilogue's time in 2364.

There is supposedly another war after that too, that Setsuna fought alongside Billy's son but I say supposedly because I'm iffy about the sourcing or the way the translation was presented to us. It noted to have come from the novelization but I recalled something about the translation or the way the info came to was that was made me suspect so I don't speak with 100% confident of it being true. I'm not saying it isn't true either but I like to add this caveat when I mention it.

I was never able to get to the bottom of it. Might need to check J-Wiki and see what it says. One of those times where I wish we can just get the actual page itself and have someone look it over.

[AnimeFangirl]

I can read Japanese just fine. Post the relevant J-wiki page and I'll try to get to the bottom of it.