(CR) Shuumatsu no Izetta

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Ghostfriendly

She seemed to be getting a little more self-confident and accepting of Fine's appreciation this ep? It seems come from her ability to blow up battleships rather than loving herself for who she is, though.

Izetta's always more self-assured in the battle field. She lacks self-esteem but she doesn't lack confidence in her abilities. Which makes sense because she has used her powers all her life. She's perfectly aware of what she's capable of.

Izetta hasn't had any positive experience with Germanians, so interesting for her to meet Rickert socially.

It's not like Ricket is gonna reveal he's a Germanian.

[Botan_TM]

Originally Posted by drobertbaker

Corsair F4-U fighters

What, where

[Ghostfriendly]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

It's not like Ricket is gonna reveal he's a Germanian.

Sorry, I assumed Izetta would find out at some stage. If she never does, I guess it would just be ironic if they met and got on okay.

[Auxilism]

Oh wow this series... Guys supporting yuri

Images

Huge gif, episode 7 about 20min in

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More seriously, free gifs below.

Images

episodes 1-7

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[Faux Mecha]

is Burns meant to be the Churchill stand in or expy? he's pretty chill for a guy meeting super natural beings or the first time its like everyday normal for him, unless Britannia has their own super hero back home in the vein of Marvel's Captain Britain,

also what is up with Izetta acting like she's a harem protagonist guy who slept in the same room with a girl for the first time?

also what kind of silly plan is to use an expensive & irreplaceable aircraft carrier as a bait just to lure one girl with super powers? that along with equipment & the personnel on board the thing, Tekkadan will cringe, & Besler is slowly becoming a Gundam rival pilot to Izetta, is his new plane three times faster compared to other planes now?

[Arya]

Originally Posted by Ghostfriendly

One of my favourite things about this series is A/Z healing. A Princess saves a persecuted innocent, who swears to serve and protect her. And receives love and protection (Izetta), instead of being ignored until he goes crazy (Slaine).

Having shown in S1 that a well-intentioned Princess is no substitute for sane government and child-protection laws, S2 of Aldnoah ruins it all by presenting the monstrously regressive and dishonest idea that a Princess can end an interplanetary war by giving a speech, and marrying a chap she doesn't much care for. In Izetta, Fine attempt to do much the same thing in episode 1, and completely fails. Because rightly history belongs to economic, political realities, and people who fight, work and vote, not the good intentions of Princesses. Fine understands her dependence on her people's goodwill (after 1917, how could she not?). All her speeches and efforts are to inspire people and nations, not command them as Asseylum did. This is the true role of a Princess. And it is also the role of Izetta, the individual hero. Alone, she can't complete destroy the Nazi, but she can inspire others to do exactly that. That's a great and mature message.

While I didn't like it in the slightest, the marriage was very realistic, I mean intermarriage for strategic diplomacy, even if very underwhelming. That's why I couldn't complain as I would. On the other hand Asseylum and Fine settings are quite the opposite to make them comparable.
And as a side note, not because you swear to save and protect someone, you can pretend anything back, Izetta on that front is right her behavior (letting aside her personal issues). She doesn't ask anything back.

Speaking of marriages, that could be a possibility for Fine too (it will never happens, because she has Izetta, but Asseylum didn't have any witches, Inaho was not a mage nor a royal).
But I agree Fine is the finest princess I've seen in a while (where my personal top is Lacus).
She is well known and loved of course, but I like that she has been tutored, that she knows about the world, for this same reason, and I'm sure that if she had to do it she would marry that prince the name I don't remember right know as well.
Sure they could have expanded a bit more her character, that's becoming a bit of an issue for me, generally speaking not just Fine.

[Kazu-kun]

I think Alisha from Zestiria the X is a far better princess character than Fine. Fine is a bit too one-dimensional (all the characters in this show are like that to some extent, expect Sieg maybe), more a symbol than an actual character.

Alisha was strong and determined but not unbreakable. She could inspire others, but unlike Fine she wasn't so saintly that she was the center of attention of everyone around her. She was idealistic but there was also a touch of naivety to her. And even though she was loved by her people, she also had her detractors, which is realistic as no political figure is universally loved by their people and political peers no matter how great they are. Her characterization was an overall better package than Fine's.

[Arya]

Yeah, characterization here fell a bit short in comparison to the rest. Fanservice also doens't help.
I started watching Zestiria but stopped for some reason I don't remember (probably due to that two episode spin-off break). Well I could resume it.

[Harry Dresden]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I think Alisha from Zestiria the X is a far better princess character than Fine. Fine is a bit too one-dimensional (all the characters in this show are like that to some extent, expect Sieg maybe), more a symbol than an actual character.

Alisha was strong and determined but not unbreakable. She could inspire others, but unlike Fine she wasn't so saintly that she was the center of attention of everyone around her. She was idealistic but there was also a touch of naivety to her. And even though she was loved by her people, she also had her detractors, which is realistic as no political figure is universally loved by their people and political peers no matter how great they are. Her characterization was an overall better package than Fine's.

While Alisha was the only bearable character in Zestiria(and the only character who was actually developed) let's not pretend she was THAT well written. It was still nothing to write home about.

Fine is fine. Around same level. Could use some nice development and the relationship could use some actual progressing, but Fine serves her purpose just fine.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Harry Dresden

While Alisha was the only bearable character in Zestiria(and the only character who was actually developed) let's not pretend she was THAT well written. It was still nothing to write home about.

She was better written than Fine. She had both flaws and strengths. She was pretty well balanced. Besides the context around her was better written too.

Fine is fine. Around same level.

Not even close.

[SeijiSensei]

For a revealing presentation about a real princess, I recommend The Crown which is currently airing on Netflix. It follows Elizabeth II from about 1947 to 1957. The scenes where the novice queen holds her weekly audiences with Churchill are especially good.

YouTube

https://youtu.be/JWtnJjn6ng0

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We'll see whether the pace picks up next season. At this rate Charles and Diana won't even marry before season four.

[Ghostfriendly]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I think Alisha from Zestiria the X is a far better princess character than Fine. Fine is a bit too one-dimensional (all the characters in this show are like that to some extent, expect Sieg maybe), more a symbol than an actual character..

Hmm, we found enough to say about Izetta and Fine a few pages ago, didn't we? But they are very much what they appear to be, rather than enigmas like Seig. Fine does have to make tough decisions, against her own heart, such as sending Izetta away, even if we don't see her agonising twixt and tween.

Haven't seen Zestrina, is it on Funimation? Though between this, Aldnoah and MLP I'm getting a little bit Princessed out.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Ghostfriendly

Hmm, we found enough to say about Izetta and Fine a few pages ago, didn't we?

We talked about the problems with their characterization.

Fine does have to make tough decisions, against her own heart

They aren't really her decisions though. Izetta decided on her own. Remember Fine actually tried to stop Izetta back in episode 3, but she couldn't. After that she can only respect Izetta's decision and do her best to support her. She still doesn't like it, but she knows not to let a situation that is out of her hands affects her too much. That shows strength, but the problem with Fine's character isn't lack of strength and virtues. It's lack of flaws.

[SPARTAN 119]

On an unrelated note, anyone know if Bergmann's figher is a real aircraft? The aircraft has gull wings like a Corsair, a propeller cowling and parts of the fuselage similar to an Me-109, but with an air intake on the bottom and additional ones similar to the Fw-190 on the sides, and a canopy like an Fw-190. For armament, it appears to have a (presumed) MG-151 20mm cannon in the propeller cowling like an Me-109, two more guns in the wing roots like an Fw-190 (possibly 20mm like the Fw-190, and two more guns (possibly 20mm or 13mm machine guns) in the nose like the Mitsubishi Zero and some early models of the P-40. Am I right in thinking that this is some kind fictional design?

Also, did the Germans really use green tracers in World War II? The only use of green tracers that I was aware of were postwar Soviet bloc weapons.

[Ghostfriendly]

Originally Posted by Global Sword 2

is Burns meant to be the Churchill stand in or expy? he's pretty chill for a guy meeting super natural beings or the first time its like everyday normal for him, unless Britannia has their own super hero back home in the vein of Marvel's Captain Britain,

also what is up with Izetta acting like she's a harem protagonist guy who slept in the same room with a girl for the first time?

also what kind of silly plan is to use an expensive & irreplaceable aircraft carrier as a bait just to lure one girl with super powers? that along with equipment & the personnel on board the thing, Tekkadan will cringe, & Besler is slowly becoming a Gundam rival pilot to Izetta, is his new plane three times faster compared to other planes now?

Burns just has the true stiff upper lip. Though his name is a bit plebian for a descendant of the Duke of Marlborough.

Sacrificing the Drachenfels was a bit of a stretch, but Otto seemed to have realised, as Hitler did, that he couldn't possibly beat the Royal Navy on the surface. Or very possibly Otto's judgement is slipping due to his fixation on witches.

We talked about the problems with their characterization.

Yes, you did, but I suppose in truth there are problems. Fine's failure to grasp the extent of Izetta 's trauma is hardly a gaping flaw.

[Darthtabby]

I'm pretty sure that Prime Minister Burns was in on Redford's game. Notice the hint of a smile that creeps onto his face when Redford announces his special guests.

Going by what we've seen so far, I'd say Fine's biggest flaw is her recklessness.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Darthtabby

Going by what we've seen so far, I'd say Fine's biggest flaw is her recklessness.

I wouldn't call Fine reckless. Izetta does seem a bit reckless when she fights.

[Harry Dresden]

Originally Posted by Ghostfriendly

Yes, you did, but I suppose in truth there are problems. Fine's failure to grasp the extent of Izetta 's trauma is hardly a gaping flaw.

Actually pretty much A LOT of the issues with characterization would solve themselves if Fine and Izetta would be allowed to progress and talk and reflect and develop instead of being stuck in loop of same ambiguous scenes of "being close".

Elements, the "puzzle pieces" for character progression ARE there. The show just needs to stop being afraid having them truly interact and change. The show should stop with ambiguous baiting pieces and allow the pieces of the characterization for each character fall into place and "bounce off" each other so to say. there's enough for them to start developing(way more than with Alisha who was pretty much one dimensional in story focus), the show should just actually allow that to happen. To have them develop as people via all the build up and events available for them. Yet again the show suffers form treating two characters interacting as bait/fanservice instead of an actual relationship. And it does not mtter the type of relationship - the difference between relationship and bait is that relationship affects characters and makes them change from interactions with each other, while bait is ambiguous enough to be ignored.

Alas we are most likely heading towards facing some artificial witch as endgame instead and the writer most likely thinks that "they care for each other a loooooooot" is enough of development for that.

[Kazu-kun]

Never gonna happen though. These character never really interact. Never really talk to each other. Sure they talk about irrelevant shit like pies and boobs, or some plot-related stuff. But interaction to develop the characters, to make them change... that never happens.

[Ghostfriendly]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Never gonna happen though. These character never really interact. Never really talk to each other. Sure they talk about irrelevant shit like pies and boobs, or some plot-related stuff. But interaction to develop the character, that never happens and at this point it's pretty obvious it never will.

We've seen a little character development, in a 'shown not told' way. In ep 5 Izetta was quite uncomfortable with Fine's shoulder massages and compliments. Ep 7 bed scene, she breaks through her nervousness, and ends up absolutely chill with Fine's emotions. We can guess that Fine might be nervous about effectively betting her kingdom on the Nord mission, but she seems most concerned about the huge burden she's placing on her friend. Izetta can reassure her that she can sink the Bismark, or 'anything else', and happily accepts Fine's gratitude without symptoms of low-self esteem. Because how high a pedestal can you put a tickle-monster on?

There probably isn't enough of this, between all the flying/explosions/fanservice, though. And it is very ambiguous/heavily reliant on audience-goodwill, so I completely understand why you're not happy with it.