Madoka Magica - General Discussion

[Hypernova]

IMO overall they should all try work toward a system that is friendly to repeat business...

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by ThereminVox

I think that the witch I linked was created largely as a result of long nights editing that very page.

Spoiler for Dramatic Re-enactment:

Dramatic re-enactment:

Sayaka:
My articles did help a few people, but in exchange, confusion and frustration filled me.
I even did Matlab simulations...

Kyoko:
Sayaka... you-

Sayaka:
Someone has to do population modeling for the sake of others.
That's how Magical Girl Calculus works.
I'm such a fool.

Kyoko:
Sayakaaa!!

Kyubey:
Being mathematician is suffering...

...and scene.

Thanks for bringing back memories of high school......

[B2-Lancer]

Originally Posted by ThereminVox

I think that the witch I linked was created largely as a result of long nights editing that very page.

Spoiler for Dramatic Re-enactment:

Dramatic re-enactment:

Sayaka:
My articles did help a few people, but in exchange, confusion and frustration filled me.
I even did Matlab simulations...

Kyoko:
Sayaka... you-

Sayaka:
Someone has to do population modeling for the sake of others.
That's how Magical Girl Calculus works.
I'm such a fool.

Kyoko:
Sayakaaa!!

Kyubey:
Being mathematician is suffering...

...and scene.

That was very good work tho', and logically consistent. If you're gonna be a deep fan don't do things halfway! Good work.

[B2-Lancer]

Originally Posted by kaigan

this might sound a little absurd, but i think enma ai (jigoku shoujo) presents her contract accurately, clearly, and briefly like no other salaryman. no strings attached (no pun intended), no hidden agenda. you get what you wished for and equally suffer the curse, knowing fully aware of the consequences.

QB should learn a few trade tricks...

What Madoka's scammed crew needs is some kind of astral Daniel Webster...

[omimon]

NSFW
http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2011/0...ite-promising/

I loled more than I should have when I read the "head" comments.

[applejuice]

^ Goro-aniki as rapist Kyuubey!

[omimon]

Originally Posted by applejuice

^ Goro-aniki as rapist Kyuubey!

The fact that he had a residing hairline always got me.

[applejuice]

Well, I'm currently seeing some interview articles in 2ch from Urobuchi, and they are all assuming that you all watched both episode of Madoka Magica. There were no spoilers, but some hints;

1. Urobuchi said that he was tormenting himself, EDITED: "After finishing last episode script, I thought when I saw Heart-Catch precure's beautiful story-line, 'is my heart really that dirty, ". From his way of saying, bad ending is almost inevitable.
2. All the action scenes were never written by Urobuchi, it was all done by Shaft's conti. Also, Urobuchi said 'battle scene in 11th episode' (aka. last battle) was entirely done by Shaft staff's creativity.
3. Someone said that there is possibility that Kyuubey at the end actually say 'SORRY' to the characters. Of course, response to that is mostly negative. "KYUUBEY CANT BE FORGIVEN".
4. Urobuchi said he might have to apologize to the fans... >_>... for what, for the UROBUCHI ENDING?...
5. I don't know why, but 2ch guys are talking about Movie Sequel possibility.

[Snork]

4. Urobuchi said he might have to apologize to the fans... >_>... for what, for the UROBUCHI ENDING?...

Let's be strong... two more cast funerals is the MOST we may see.... right? >_<

[Endscape]

Won't be surprised if it ends badly, it is Urobuchi, after all.

[hyperborealis]

He would have to apologize if it were a happy ending, just for trolling us for 12 episodes.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by hyperborealis

He would have to apologize if it were a happy ending, just for trolling us for 12 episodes.

I thought we went over this before?

Thus far, Madoka Magica's plot structure is not terribly out of the ordinary. It's darker than most, but that's it.

Should it have a bittersweet/happy end, it would be quite comparable to dozens of other animes out there (comparable in plot structure, even if it is better than most in overall execution).

I would be very displeased with a total bad end... although I have to admit that such an end is sounding increasingly likely now.


Not everybody who's watching this anime is doing so because of the name "Gen Urobuchi". Some of us, including myself, are magical girl anime fans, and were drawn to this anime in large part for that reason (along with the curiosity of how SHAFT would handle magical girl anime).

[Reckoner]

Gen doesn't partake in pointless blood bath endings. There's usually something more than that. He usually goes for bittersweet.

[hyperborealis]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I thought we went over this before?

Of course. But wouldn't it be amusing if Urobuchi had a happy ending simply to confound all those people who expect the exact opposite just since he's writing the show?

It's funny you now think a "total bad end" is "increasingly likely." Like you, I've re-watched the series, and I'm moving in the exact opposite direction, to think that a happy ending is likely after all. I base this largely on my sense of Madoka's character. She reminds me more than a little of Ashitaka from Princess Mononoke: an incorruptible figure, burdened by tragedy, who is trying to sustain a world in which the spiritual and the magical are at war with human society, technology, and needs. I think the values Madoka represents--friendship, compassion, courage--are themselves already a substantial victory amidst the tragedy, and that however the plot ends, with Madoka living or not, the anime will still affirm those values. As I keep saying, we have already had several happy endings: Madoka represents another, and the most important.

The other reason I think a happy ending is likely is due to some of the odd little hints and signs that Urobuchi packs into the anime. How about this one: there are two incidents in which characters interject--completely out of left field--a retrospective comment into the narrative. The first one occurs at the close of Episode 2, where Madoka is thinking of Mami's heroism, and says to herself, "If I could become such a helpful person.../ That sounds wonderful," which is then followed by the completely discontinuous reflection, "Or so I thought." The second occurs at the beginning of Episode 4, where Sayaka is thinking over her selfish motives for wanting to help Kyosuke, and then suddenly interjects in a voice-over: "Looking back on it, I was clueless. / I didn't know about miracles or the price you had to pay for them." At these moments, we have the characters speaking from some future standpoint, looking backwards at themselves and standing outside the narrative itself. When and where are Madoka and Sayaka making these comments? We assume the episodes are narrated as they happen, but that may not be true after all. Are they instead the characters' retrospective reflections? If so, then the story we are watching is already possibly being told from the future standpoint of the happy ending.

What do you think?

[B2-Lancer]

Originally Posted by hyperborealis

The other reason I think a happy ending is likely is due to some of the odd little hints and signs that Urobuchi packs into the anime. How about this one: there are two incidents in which characters interject--completely out of left field--a retrospective comment into the narrative. The first one occurs at the close of Episode 2, where Madoka is thinking of Mami's heroism, and says to herself, "If I could become such a helpful person.../ That sounds wonderful," which is then followed by the completely discontinuous reflection, "Or so I thought." The second occurs at the beginning of Episode 4, where Sayaka is thinking over her selfish motives for wanting to help Kyosuke, and then suddenly interjects in a voice-over: "Looking back on it, I was clueless. / I didn't know about miracles or the price you had to pay for them." At these moments, we have the characters speaking from some future standpoint, looking backwards at themselves and standing outside the narrative itself. When and where are Madoka and Sayaka making these comments? We assume the episodes are narrated as they happen, but that may not be true after all. Are they instead the characters' retrospective reflections? If so, then the story we are watching is already possibly being told from the future standpoint of the happy ending.

What do you think?

Those "hints" present an "escape hatch for resurrections" willfully or unwittingly suggested by the sharp fellow with the theroums a few post back. (very difficult to define this exactly) but are you suggesting that everything that's taken place is only part of a base-event/time "super reality" which is your originall timeline/reality? Wherein (say) Homura's time travel tinkering or Madoka's "wish it all never happened" wish finally "get it right" like straightening out the knots on a cord which retrieves Mami and Sayaka from those "inner timeline fates" which they can all look back on from the same place they originated from, death not withstanding. It's a circumstance suggestively permissible in string theory, where you can (were you or wishes god-like enough a'la "2001") "graft" different event/timelines onto any other (as an extended continuum as it were) you chose, including your base ("original") timeline. In a almost literal way you'd have all the satisfaction and relief of it all being a dream without being inconsistent or "cheating" with dozens of different-outcome parallel timelines but coming back to your original "super reality" -- the one that first occurred before Kyubey made the scene. (Hope that translated well enough).

In any case, yes, I could live easy with that scenario where everyone can look back upon experiences (with memories carried over) from other eventlines like they were last summer's vacation in the same reality it all started from, but the studio might not take this route because you'd need a Carl Sagan to properly explain the technical plausibility.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by hyperborealis

What do you think?

Well, I think that I hope you're right, lol. You raise good points about how Madoka and Sayaka briefly take on narrator voices as though they were future selves describing what are past events for them.


You can never know for sure with Gen.

I will say that if this tale ends up being genuinely heartwarming (due to the end), that would be rather delicious in a way.

The real joke would then be that Gen actually did mean it when he said he was writing a heartwarming tale, and these more recent tweets are the ones that are done to trick the audience.


And in all seriousness, I could see Gen feeling like he needs to apologize to his personal fanbase for writing an ending that might be totally unusual for him.

[applejuice]

I can see there are huge misunderstanding, when I said it is 'bad ending', it is bad ending for 'US', but Urobuchi will still think it had hope and dream. Thus, it is neither happy nor bad ending actually; it is 'UROBUCHI ENDING'.

Something like Saya no Uta where;

Spoiler:

The supposed 'GOOD' ending was Saya and Protagonist becoming one or whatever and every single organism in the world perishes.

kind of thing.

Thus, knowing Madoka-the-witch's description, here is my prediction;

1. Homura witchifies
2. Madoka wishes 'everyone to be happy'
3. becomes witch and sucks every person in this world into her new heaven
4. Kyuubey says evilly 'You humans said I had no moral value. Now, you guys have no emotion other than false 'happiness', thus you guys are same as having no emotion, like us'
5. "Now, I should find another planet to get more enagyyy~~"

(*Another thing from the Interview was;

Miyamoto Yuukihiro: Kyuubey was Kyuubey until the end.)

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by applejuice

I can see there are huge misunderstanding, when I said it is 'bad ending', it is bad ending for 'US', but Urobuchi will still think it had hope and dream. Thus, it is neither happy nor bad ending actually; it is 'UROBUCHI ENDING'.

Something like Saya no Uta where;

Spoiler:

The supposed 'GOOD' ending was Saya and Protagonist becoming one or whatever and every single organism in the world perishes.

kind of thing.

Thus, knowing Madoka-the-witch's description, here is my prediction;

1. Homura witchifies
2. Madoka wishes 'everyone to be happy'
3. becomes witch and sucks every person in this world into her new heaven
4. Kyuubey says evilly 'You humans said I had no moral value. Now, you guys have no emotion other than false 'happiness', thus you guys are same as having no emotion, like us'
5. "Now, I should find another planet to get more enagyyy~~"

(*Another thing from the Interview was;

Miyamoto Yuukihiro: Kyuubey was Kyuubey until the end.)

Yeah, I see your point here.

And I'd be fine with this.

Could be a more clear-cut version of the End of Eva ending.


Some people have said that, thus far, Madoka Magica is Mai HiME done right. And even though I liked Mai HiME a fair bit, I will say that Madoka Magica handles its plot more smoothly than Mai HiME did.


But what if, instead, it's End of Eva, only more clear-cut? Now that would be something.

[Archon_Wing]

Hmm, I don't see the End of Evangelion relationship here, besides maybe the apocalyptic thing, but that's not unique to Eva, IMO.

This is another story.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpIw44JQ_CQ

[Solace]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

And I'd be fine with this.

I wouldn't be. I don't want to see an ending that I have already seen in episode 10. I want to see the ending do something different. If it's good or bad, oh well, but seeing a "completed" version of an ending we already know about (that Homura's previous loops were futile and this one is too) is just not interesting to me.

It's the same thing I feel about the predictions that Homura is Walpurgis. So what? What does it change in the story? Oh, you mean Madoka might have yet another tragic moment? Haven't we seen enough of these characters being tragic?

Kyubey is still Kyubey in the end? That could mean anything. It doesn't automatically equate to a good or bad end.

I do not want to see an ending that can be summed up as "They struggled and struggled to change their fates, but in the end they lost, nothing was changed, and the villain got away with it. The End." We already saw that multiple times in episode 10, and seeing it again is not interesting.