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Old 2017-04-15, 11:03   Link #101
BWTraveller
Azure Dragon reborn
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Texas
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicky. View Post
I'm quite certain that "your conception of writing is beyond awful.". is a personal attack.
If you don't believe so, Tong, then that means you do not know the definition of 'personal attack'.. "lol" right back at you.

Oh believe me, I'd love a civil debate. On that note, is anybody able to explain to me why this episode 1 was "good" or perhaps "well-done"? I really want to hear something, but it appears nobody can.
Dude, the point that I get from their responses is that you're asking for stuff in the first episode that frankly doesn't belong in the first episode, as well as ignoring the visuals. One of the biggest complaints in large-scale stories is the author spending too much time on exposition, particularly exposition through conversation that sounds unnatural as it was twisted to include all the necessary information. A run through the town and a montage (with a beautiful rendition of Scarborough Fair) as the pair wanders does a great job at providing all sorts of visual evidence about the culture, the economy, the architecture, and more. This allows more focus to be placed where it's most important on the first episode. Generally, the first episode must first provide a sufficient hook, demonstrating the reason the story's worth following further, and then INTRODUCE the most basic information on the primary characters and their setting. It's the next couple of episodes where you can expect some real explanation of the situation, things like the setting and deeper aspects of the characters. You're seriously jumping the gun.

Anyway, I too felt that this was a great first episode to what looks to have a lot of potential as a series.

And while I don't think it was polite to just say "you have terrible writing sense", I must agree that placing thorough explanations of so many details so early in the story would indeed be very poor sense. If a story gave a fraction of the amount of detail you're talking about, the first episode would have no time to really delve into the characters and their situation, leaving it boring from the lack of action and also overwhelming with way too much information.
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Old 2017-04-15, 15:54   Link #102
Chosen_Hero
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If this is anything like Grimgar I won't be sticking around for long, not going to suffer through that kind of bore again.
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Old 2017-04-15, 16:07   Link #103
BWTraveller
Azure Dragon reborn
 
 
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Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero View Post
If this is anything like Grimgar I won't be sticking around for long, not going to suffer through that kind of bore again.
We'll have to wait and see. The music and style is pretty good at least. I won't mind if it gets a little long at times. The only reason I didn't stick around with Grimgar is because of the paper-thin plot armor and the extreme depression. This one doesn't seem to have that. There isn't that sort of air of "no matter what we do, we're doomed" here, so as long as the guy doesn't find most of his weapons murdered within the first few episodes I for one will stick around.
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Old 2017-04-18, 07:53   Link #104
Zefyris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueknight78 View Post
actually another note about "trolls" they are originally from the norse myth which already describing then as monster like appearance, not because of "tolken, he only get the reference from here, like many others references, he didin't created them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll
even there they also where described as being both "good and evil" like some could be good and friendly and others means and evil.
also others races which come from norse myth where the dwarfs and elvens(that i don't know for suce also they described as party of germany myth), actually a lot of fantasy creatures come from they myth, other part come from greece and others come scattered from others places like ireland(the lepprechaus and gonomes if i'm not wrong) and others places.
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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
So John Bauer took inspiration from Tolkien decades into the future, huh?

Images
trolls
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

That's some funny revisionist history you have there.

You have made me curious about where on earth you get your information from. So where are these pre-Tolkien "legends" where trolls were commonly portrayed to have attractive humanoid bodies like Niagrat?
Uh what? I never said Tolkien invented the monstruous trolls. And I never had such wrong idea either. Just that he made that version popular and we almost only see what he made popular nowadays in fantasy settings. Most dwarves, elven tribes, orcs, trolls and so on look like what Tolkien described or just slight variation from it. Even though many of those fictional races had several different appearance depending of the tales. That's why I called it "Tolkien type". It's Tolkien that made this type of troll overly popular in modern fantasy. Not anyone else.

As for your question, Harry Dresden made a nice post last page already :
Quote:
Friendly reminder that plenty of folk tales about trolls involve the detail about them being able to adapt their appearance to trick their targets, to lure them to their doom - the victims either being imprisoned by trolls or eaten when their guard is down. Quit a few cautionary tales also involve trolls masquerading as people and giving out advice or gifts that lead to misfortune and mischief. Its the reason why witchcraft in norse is called trolldomr. In fact, trollkona the Scandinavian equivalent of a female troll is pretty much depicted as a witch. A norwegian type of female troll known as huldra is pretty much a seducer than ensnares and eats men.

So yes, Nygglatho fits the troll lore in that she is akin to the Witch from Hansel and Gretel tale, which coincides with depictions of troll behavior too.
So I'm not coming back on it, this should be more than enough as an answer.

Attractive or not is not the problem btw, it's human looking or not that is important. Why? Because attractive looking will come by itself with the change of environment they suffered in this precise verse. I'll answer that in detail below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueknight78 View Post
ok you must remember which peoples have different tastes and blabla bla.

but for now, while old legends talked about humans bein called trolls or ogres, the reason the modern ogres and trolls and others humanoids where turned in "monster like creatures" is exactly because of they behavious and looks, what i means is which while "human trolls" where still humans, they where not described as "hot girls and hot guys" they where described as rustic peoples which normally they houses where dirty and they have some features like scars dirt nailfingers and things like that which where what was changed to make then look more and more ugly until them look like monsters.
You should have been able to answer this yourself with this episode. As I said, all of what Nyglatho said points out toward trolls being a race that was feeding on humans by pretending to be humans and living as outcasts, giving hospitality to human travellers before eating them. For anyone who read that and don't undestand why that conclusion, read back my post two pages ago.

Right, so let's start from here.

Well then, what happened 525 years ago? Humanity was wiped out. This is a complete change for the troll race. They can no longer live the way they lived, at all. Not only because they can't feed on human, but because without the human race, they can't pretend to be human to fool peoples on entering their house and feasting there. Especially since there's racism around about disfeatured races who look like human, no one is going to stay in their house that way, and even disfeatured will know they're not human so the "what race are you" will be a natural question. If ahuman traveller were to stop ona house with human-looking inhabitants during its travel, such question wouldn't pop up that naturally. On top of this, they live on floating islands, the place is limited, you can't avoid being listed as troll, anyone will know it. So they can't eat peoples freely anymore, they would be quickly found out, with nowhere to really hide, and accused of murder right away.
The key point is "500 years". They had 500 years to evolve. they HAD to evolve. 500 years ago, our ancestors were a lot more "rustic", and many more had things like "scars dirt nailfingers and things like that ". We changed due to our environment changing.
They changed just the same, due to not being able to live the same way as before.
They had to adapt living here. And Nyglatho clearly said what is needed to understand how can troll still manage to feed on sentient races even now, in this situation. "if you say it's okay to eat you[...]"
As long as they get the "okay" from their victim, they can do it. There's plenty of way to achieve that, but for a female troll like Nyglatho, just looking at various comments on youtube and various boards from many peoples saying they would be "okay to be eaten", you can guess one of them easily.
is that so hard to understand what are the kind of ways trolls had to change their appearance in order to adapt? I mean it's not like they had to change physically. just look more proper, attractive, sexy maybe, behave in a more playfull or cool and attractive way, that kind of things. All of this is plenty doable for any race, especially over 500 years.

You could say that in reverse, considering how much their environment changed 500 years ago, it would be ILLOGICAL to have the troll still be very rustic and not taking the time to look proper and attractive.

Note that Nyglatho is huge for a" human woman". Wilhelm isn't especially short, and she's taller than him. So the troll are still more massive than human. They didn't evolve physically, they evolved through those 500 years in their behaviour and the way they dress/take care of their outward appearance.

That's what you can conclude from the various things Nyglatho said to Wilhelm about Trolls. We already can pretty much reconstitute what they were and what the yare from the first episode. So much for the first episode not giving a lot of info, btw.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueknight78 View Post
the trouble exactly here is when you where in a fantasy set wher all the others races are showed being animal like and "only one female character is showed as a "hot young human girl which is obvious (fanservice) reason not because the writer wanted them being based on realistic human or she could not look like that, as your typical hot girl, while i can understand that argument about need a "human like race", but the fact which her look is more like "fanservice reason" still true.
That's irrelevant. Once again you should have been able to deny such conclusion by yourself from this episode.
Didn't you see how folks reacted to seeing ONE disfeatured in town? Can you imagine the reaction of those folks if they had to be in Nyglatho's job? Well you don't even need to imagine it, since Nyglatho described it. 3 as if I could remain here!" they said, as she quoted them. They didn't even remain for one single day inside the warehouse. And that's why this time around the military side asked for a disfeatured, and got Wilhelm for the job. Because only another disfeatured race would say "okay" to live in a place with DOZENS of ominous disfeatured children running around all days.

So even if trolls in that verse were NOT human like, you would have had another disfeatured race instead.
And since obviously wilhelm will have the role of the "father" it feels more natural for the story to have a woman for the other side.
If anything, choosing to have a giant woman like Nyglatho that look at wilhelm as a nice looking dinner is going away from any possible fanservice a more waifu-like petite and cute woman caretaker would have given.
Furthermore, I 'd point out once again that you're wasting your time trying to find fan service in a story that has no action, no harem, no ecchi to begin with. That's because a story that discard most of the genre that would make it easier to appeal to a larger audience and sell more is a story that isn't going for fanservice to begin with.
Let's be real, if the author wanted fanservice, with such a setting, it would have been very easy for him to have action, harem AND ecchi happening all the time. I mean the synopsis itself can easily be misinterpreted as such type of story and I'm sure many anime watchers made the mistake at first.
Instead he didn't. So yeah, you're wasting your time with the whole fanservice idea.
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Old 2017-04-18, 10:26   Link #105
Blueknight78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zefyris View Post
Uh what? I never said Tolkien invented the monstruous trolls. And I never had such wrong idea either. Just that he made that version popular and we almost only see what he made popular nowadays in fantasy settings. Most dwarves, elven tribes, orcs, trolls and so on look like what Tolkien described or just slight variation from it. Even though many of those fictional races had several different appearance depending of the tales. That's why I called it "Tolkien type". It's Tolkien that made this type of troll overly popular in modern fantasy. Not anyone else.

As for your question, Harry Dresden made a nice post last page already :

So I'm not coming back on it, this should be more than enough as an answer.

Attractive or not is not the problem btw, it's human looking or not that is important. Why? Because attractive looking will come by itself with the change of environment they suffered in this precise verse. I'll answer that in detail below.


You should have been able to answer this yourself with this episode. As I said, all of what Nyglatho said points out toward trolls being a race that was feeding on humans by pretending to be humans and living as outcasts, giving hospitality to human travellers before eating them. For anyone who read that and don't undestand why that conclusion, read back my post two pages ago.

Right, so let's start from here.

Well then, what happened 525 years ago? Humanity was wiped out. This is a complete change for the troll race. They can no longer live the way they lived, at all. Not only because they can't feed on human, but because without the human race, they can't pretend to be human to fool peoples on entering their house and feasting there. Especially since there's racism around about disfeatured races who look like human, no one is going to stay in their house that way, and even disfeatured will know they're not human so the "what race are you" will be a natural question. If ahuman traveller were to stop ona house with human-looking inhabitants during its travel, such question wouldn't pop up that naturally. On top of this, they live on floating islands, the place is limited, you can't avoid being listed as troll, anyone will know it. So they can't eat peoples freely anymore, they would be quickly found out, with nowhere to really hide, and accused of murder right away.
The key point is "500 years". They had 500 years to evolve. they HAD to evolve. 500 years ago, our ancestors were a lot more "rustic", and many more had things like "scars dirt nailfingers and things like that ". We changed due to our environment changing.
They changed just the same, due to not being able to live the same way as before.
They had to adapt living here. And Nyglatho clearly said what is needed to understand how can troll still manage to feed on sentient races even now, in this situation. "if you say it's okay to eat you[...]"
As long as they get the "okay" from their victim, they can do it. There's plenty of way to achieve that, but for a female troll like Nyglatho, just looking at various comments on youtube and various boards from many peoples saying they would be "okay to be eaten", you can guess one of them easily.
is that so hard to understand what are the kind of ways trolls had to change their appearance in order to adapt? I mean it's not like they had to change physically. just look more proper, attractive, sexy maybe, behave in a more playfull or cool and attractive way, that kind of things. All of this is plenty doable for any race, especially over 500 years.

You could say that in reverse, considering how much their environment changed 500 years ago, it would be ILLOGICAL to have the troll still be very rustic and not taking the time to look proper and attractive.

Note that Nyglatho is huge for a" human woman". Wilhelm isn't especially short, and she's taller than him. So the troll are still more massive than human. They didn't evolve physically, they evolved through those 500 years in their behaviour and the way they dress/take care of their outward appearance.

That's what you can conclude from the various things Nyglatho said to Wilhelm about Trolls. We already can pretty much reconstitute what they were and what the yare from the first episode. So much for the first episode not giving a lot of info, btw.


That's irrelevant. Once again you should have been able to deny such conclusion by yourself from this episode.
Didn't you see how folks reacted to seeing ONE disfeatured in town? Can you imagine the reaction of those folks if they had to be in Nyglatho's job? Well you don't even need to imagine it, since Nyglatho described it. 3 as if I could remain here!" they said, as she quoted them. They didn't even remain for one single day inside the warehouse. And that's why this time around the military side asked for a disfeatured, and got Wilhelm for the job. Because only another disfeatured race would say "okay" to live in a place with DOZENS of ominous disfeatured children running around all days.

So even if trolls in that verse were NOT human like, you would have had another disfeatured race instead.
And since obviously wilhelm will have the role of the "father" it feels more natural for the story to have a woman for the other side.
If anything, choosing to have a giant woman like Nyglatho that look at wilhelm as a nice looking dinner is going away from any possible fanservice a more waifu-like petite and cute woman caretaker would have given.
Furthermore, I 'd point out once again that you're wasting your time trying to find fan service in a story that has no action, no harem, no ecchi to begin with. That's because a story that discard most of the genre that would make it easier to appeal to a larger audience and sell more is a story that isn't going for fanservice to begin with.
Let's be real, if the author wanted fanservice, with such a setting, it would have been very easy for him to have action, harem AND ecchi happening all the time. I mean the synopsis itself can easily be misinterpreted as such type of story and I'm sure many anime watchers made the mistake at first.
Instead he didn't. So yeah, you're wasting your time with the whole fanservice idea.
ok, you are "misunderstand "fanservice(attractive and some poses and maybe some skin esposure) with ecchi and harem and all others cliche, they are "different things" not every anime with attractive fanservice must be obligatory ecchi and harem and have crap mc, not really, i never told which this anime is ecchi harem and bla bla bla, i told which one of the reasons she look like that is also to be used as fanservice, specially in the lewd way she acted, a good exemple is spice and wolf, you had a lot of horo naked and still not ecchi but still have "fanservice" it's just while some animes still have that sort of fanservice this is not the "sales point of it", but still having a hot waifus with large breasts and a hot look and act a little lewd can still be a fanservice not just a over the top ecchi one.
have some fanservice don't automatically turn a serie in "ecchi or harem or whatever you want", you can have bath scenes and some lewd actions and excessivly attractive characters and do fanservice and still not a ecchi serie because that is not the focus is just a "attractive' or eyecandy for peoples, ecchi series are the ones where "exposure" and that things are one of the focus like the girl appearing naked a lot, pants shots and things like that this is what make a serie ecchi and it's also don't automatically means also "harem" which is another different thing, not every ecchi automatically means "harem", while a huge majority of the LN are harem and also are ecchi this don't means which all of then gonna be.

it's obvious which the writer used that "tale about attractive" female trolls" not only for "plot but also to get some fanservice here and there, unless you have really big issues with accepting somethings which you gonna say which the way she look and act is just "for plot reasons" and don't have any fanservice included on it.

about the prejudice, ok as we know in that village not everyone is "racist" the peoples which knew the mc well already threated him good even he being a "human" as we see, then this means which is possible for trolls to live around the beast look ones, they just need to gain the trust in the same way the mc gained, it's just some peoples are it" not everyone as we see, then for trolls being disfeature could not be a so big deal as long everyone already aware of then.

now thinking better based on that logic of eating peoples and use tricks and sex appeal, using a troll to "take care of somehow innocent childrens" is even more dangerous, she could easy trick the little girls and eat then, why for mc she can't hold back too much but for the girls she can???, plot convenience she only want to eat mc, when you have another "race which look like humans" at her side which in most of cases are little innocent kids which could easy be tricked by her to be eaten.

and another note again not was "tolkien fault" for that trolls being popular, that already was the most popular in the most modern tales on that time, if you even look at last the "troll movie" you could see which they where different from the tales, which is normally about then have big noises and ears while at last in movie they where opposite with small noises and ears.

what he did was just pick what was the most popular look and added on his tales, this not was "tolken fault" for that look being the most knowed.
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Last edited by Blueknight78; 2017-04-18 at 11:13.
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Old 2017-04-18, 11:33   Link #106
Stark700
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From this week's episode, we now learn why the kids aren't afraid of death. Still for kids, they really do act like kids with their behavior especially in front of Willem.
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Old 2017-04-18, 11:51   Link #107
sparhawk1610
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A nice opening. Geez, so much feelings when I watch it. That kiss on Kutori forehead was really nicely animated. I just want to watch more.
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Old 2017-04-18, 11:53   Link #108
AB079
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Oh man, here we go with the beginning of the suffering but let's say the good points first.

The VA choices for Ithea and Nephren was perfect, really fit their personalities. Nygglatho as always one of those characters that makes you smile a lot, and Kutori the best, just the best.

Now, as for the hard part. Basically the leprechaun are the kids that can wield these special weapons to defeat the beasts, for them, their lifes doesn't matter and all what they do is fulfilling their role as weapons. That moment when Almite went to find the ball... I understand Wilhelm's feelings and I'm so glad he choose the painful path, trying to give them a little light in their lifes, especially Kutori. The kiss scene, damn that was so perfectly done and the mix with Wilhem's memories showing more of the past give that scene a perfect balance.

Always when I watch this I remember one thing, "do not get attached to the characters".

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Old 2017-04-18, 11:58   Link #109
sparhawk1610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AB079 View Post
Oh man, here we go with the beginning of the suffering but let's say the good points first.

The VA choices for Ithea and Nephren was perfect, really fit their personalities. Nygglatho as always one of those characters that makes you smile a lot, and Kutori the best, just the best.

Now, as for the hard part. Basically the leprechaun are the kids that can wield these special weapons to defeat the beasts, for them, their lifes doesn't matter and all what they do is fulfilling their role as weapons. That moment when Almita went to find the ball... I understand Wilhelm's feelings and I'm so glad he choose the painful path, trying to give them a little light in their lifes, especially Kutori. The kiss scene, damn that was so perfectly done and the mix with Wilhem's memories showing more of the past give that scene a perfect balance.

Always when I watch this I remember one thing, "do not get attached to the characters"
.
That is what I keep saying to myself. But then I see Kutori and...damn, I canīt
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Old 2017-04-18, 12:04   Link #110
AB079
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Originally Posted by sparhawk1610 View Post
That is what I keep saying to myself. But then I see Kutori and...damn, I canīt
Impossible to not get attached when this is the potential AOTS (not AOTY tho, as someone from this forum is saying even on youtube channels ) especially when you have so many likeable characters and a good story.
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Old 2017-04-18, 12:26   Link #111
Harry Dresden
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Episode 2
OP is decent. I still don't like the song but the visuals convey the setting of the show(frantic slice of life which will eventually be cut short by bloody battle) well as well as foreshadowing stuff without being too obvious about it.

Overall if the first episode set up the characters, this episode gives a nice amount of lore, as well as setting up the "main conflict" of the story(Importance of Life) as well as ongoing plot threads. We are off to a good start so far. Hopefully the quality of the show remains good.

I hope people don't take the massage scene the wrong way.
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Old 2017-04-18, 13:49   Link #112
Flower
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Ep 02

Another interesting episode ... so much of it felt spot on to me. I am really, really liking what I see so far!

The OP and ED are only okay for me, while the BGM is excellent thus far.

And yes ... this is definitely heading for painful and tragic territory it seems.
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Old 2017-04-18, 14:33   Link #113
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The ones sending them to fight aren't very smart.
They only have 4 weapons. I don't see how they can afford to blow one of them up.

I would like to call out this anime and the LN it comes from for cheating though. We all know the girls fighting are dead girls walking. It's not fair to make them so goddamn adorable. It's just not fair. Why do they have to be so great? Not getting attached to them is im-freaking-possible. I CALL HAX!
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Old 2017-04-18, 14:39   Link #114
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It was said that only the girls and the beasts get blown up, the weapons end up being left behind. Quite convenient, right?
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Old 2017-04-18, 14:41   Link #115
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.....F***! I misunderstood. Shouldn't watch without subs...

And now I fell WORSE about it. The girls are completely expendable.
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Old 2017-04-18, 14:58   Link #116
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That scene where Wilhelm was concerned over Almite bleeding, while everyone else just looked at him in confusion really sums these girls situations. They're weapons to pretty much everyone else, so there is no real point to them valuing their own lives. They are pretty much expendable.

It's a good thing that their newest care taker is someone like Wilhelm would still sees them as people and wants to them the value of life.
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Old 2017-04-18, 15:26   Link #117
Zefyris
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Originally Posted by xrick View Post
It was said that only the girls and the beasts get blown up, the weapons end up being left behind. Quite convenient, right?
Thinking of which, this pretty much means that they're more of expendable ammunitions rather than weapons, the precious weapons being the swords.
That's even creepier than considering them as weapons
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Old 2017-04-18, 15:26   Link #118
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I would hate to be Wilhelm in that situation. He has the power to use those weapons but not the ability...
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Old 2017-04-18, 15:36   Link #119
AB079
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Originally Posted by DmonHiro View Post
I would hate to be Wilhelm in that situation. He has the power to use those weapons but not the ability...
He has neither of them, did you saw the flashback at the end of the episode?
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Old 2017-04-18, 15:51   Link #120
blakstealth
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oh shit, man. oh shit, man. oh shit, man.

I'm all in on this one. Really interested to see what's gonna happen from here on out.

So are emniwhats just a different name for humans?
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