Guilty Crown - Episode 12 Discussion / Poll

[Xeones]

Since when Shu is a clone too? Mechalord, where are you getting this info?

[mechalord]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

What, you think that him ( Gai ) being shown with pants and ( after Manas breakdown ) bound and with no pants is not a big hint?



Uh, could you please source that? Because to me it looks like you just pulled that from nowhere.

I think she took advantage of his lust and got him to compromise himself. She then took the opportunity to subdue him in order to threaten him. He found out the infection would make her go crazy and he was confronting her. This is when he got tied up because she feared he would go tell Shu.


Keido was cackling about how "marrying/mating" with Mana would wipe out the human race and lay the foundations of a new one. He was excited about being the father of the next human race. He implied that having sex with her would put the "Lost Christmas" stuff in its final stage... the virus would go global, people would turn into ash to make way for her child.

When Triton first met Mana, she was already in the final stages of infection.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Manic

well not like theres any source that says she raped triton either. I agree with mechalord, theres no way she had sex with him since the whole plot is that she chooses a partner and they mix their genes to make a new race.

<shrug> Hints were there. Or do you think she just took his pants off to tease him? The Japanese love to give visual clues to what happened off-screen.

Anyway, I think nobody wins by further going into further details of a possible female on male rape between what appear to be a 12 year old girl and a ten year old boy.

Originally Posted by mechalord

When Triton first met Mana, she was already in the final stages of infection.

That's actually difficult to say, since she basically is patient zero. She did not show the signs of the disease to the amount of current patients, it could have been that she still was in the early stages, but due to her being the original carrier she had a stronger connection to whatever the Apocalypse virus really is. We don't have enough information yet to make definite statements.

[mechalord]

Originally Posted by Xeones

Since when Shu is a clone too? Mechalord, where are you getting this info?

It's being implied. The way Gai, Haruka, Inori, etc. treat him. They treat him as something "special."

- Haruka is not his real mother but looks like him.
- Gai calls Haruka, Shu's "new mother."
- Daath calls him by another name and sort of treats him like a "failure."
- Segai plays both sides but always seems to watch Shu's back
- The void genome took to him rather nicely
- never infected with the apocalypse virus even though he was at ground-zero just like Triton. Triton got infected, Shu didn't.

[mechalord]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

<shrug> Hints were there. Or do you think she just took his pants off to tease him? The Japanese love to give visual clues to what happened off-screen.

Anyway, I think nobody wins by further going into further details of a possible female on male rape between what appear to be a 12 year old girl and a ten year old boy.



That's actually difficult to say, since she basically is patient zero. She did not show the signs of the disease to the amount of current patients, it could have been that she still was in the early stages, but due to her being the original carrier she had a stronger connection to whatever the Apocalypse virus really is. We don't have enough information yet to make definite statements.

Hints were there that nothing happened, as Mana was fully dressed and Gai was scared. Any sort of sexual encounter is not likely since this is not that "type of show." She either took his pants off to tease him or suckered him into pulling them down in order to tie him up and the beat him into submission so he didn't snitch.

When he didn't listen, she rigged a gun explode on him.

[Manic]

yeah i dont think mana was infected when they 1st met, and i also doubt that shu is a clone.

i still stand firm that she didnt rape triton either, A lil S play to make him her puppet and do as she says, sure, but i doubt she went all the way since she was doing all of this to be with shu.

- Daath calls him by another name and sort of treats him like a "failure."

i believe this comes from his 1st lost xmas experience. Back then shu could have been the new adam and ruled along side mana as a king of a new race. But what did they really expect from a 7 year old who didnt even know what mana was talking about most of the time

[Soji]

Yeah,she probaly use the pants to restrain him.

i believe this comes from his 1st lost xmas experience. Back then shu could have been the new adam and ruled along side mana as a king of a new race. But what did they really expect from a 7 year old who didnt even know what mana was talking about most of the time

Agree.

[Xeones]

Originally Posted by mechalord

It's being implied. The way Gai, Haruka, Inori, etc. treat him. They treat him as something "special."

- Haruka is not his real mother but looks like him.
- Gai calls Haruka, Shu's "new mother."
- Daath calls him by another name and sort of treats him like a "failure."
- Segai plays both sides but always seems to watch Shu's back
- The void genome took to him rather nicely
- never infected with the apocalypse virus even though he was at ground-zero. Triton was infected, though.

It sure is a possibility, but it's better not assume that it's something certain... this series is know for pulling stuff out of nowhere . Like I said, it's possible that they're natural... but have something in their genes that made them special or suffered genetic therapy to become compatible with the virus, there are a lot of other possible explanations. But I like the scenario where both Shu and Inori are "artificial" humans and love each other... it would be something almost poetic.

The only thing that we can be 100% sure is that Shu is not a normal human. Let's see how they're going to explore this on the second season of the anime.

i believe this comes from his 1st lost xmas experience. Back then shu could have been the new adam and ruled along side mana as a king of a new race. But what did they really expect from a 7 year old who didnt even know what mana was talking about most of the time

Agreed [2]

[Narzia]

Originally Posted by mechalord

Any sort of sexual encounter is not likely since this is not that "type of show.".

It does strike me as that type of show, since that's exactly what she wants to do with Shu and the old man seemed to want to do with her.
Still, I don't believe she raped him.

[mechalord]

Originally Posted by Manic

yeah i dont think mana was infected when they 1st met, and i also doubt that shu is a clone.

i still stand firm that she did rape triton either, A lil S play to make him her puppet and do as she says, sure, but i doubt she went all the way since she was doing all of this to be with shu.



i believe this comes from his 1st lost xmas experience. Back then shu could have been the new adam and ruled along side mana as a king of a new race. But what did they really expect from a 7 year old who didnt even know what mana was talking about most of the time

Gai (Triton) would do anything for her since she saved him and gave him mouth to mouth, except betray Shu. Shu was his bro, the kid he looked up... his best friend. He hung out with Shu more than he did with Mana. It was Shu who saw him lying on the beach, I believe.

Gai was incredibly close to Shu, closer than he was to Mana. The only person he would ever snitch Mana out to was Shu.

I believe Mana either pulled his pants down and beat him up to put him in his place, assert dominance or suckered him into lowering his pants in order to beat him up and tie him up.

Anyhow, Gai adhered to "bros before hoes" and went to Shu shortly after that to tell Shu about Mana.

Gai would never be a puppet to Mana.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by mechalord

Hints were there that nothing happened, as Mana was fully dressed and Gai was scared. Any sort of sexual encounter is not likely since this is not that "type of show." She either took his pants off to tease him or suckered him into pulling them down in order to tie him up and the beat him into submission so he didn't snitch.

When he didn't listen, she rigged a gun explode on him.

Now you are just making things up in your mind which are not even slightly supported by the visual evidence. ^^

And, while I was also quite shocked where the show went this week, it definitely is this kind of show, with Mana trying to do her ten year old brother in a church, while having Gais blood smeared on her lips. So, uh, sorry if I assume that a scene with pretty clear visual hints actually had pretty depraved things happening in it.

[mechalord]

Originally Posted by Narzia

It does strike me as that type of show, since that's exactly what she wants to do with Shu and the old man seemed to want to do with her.
Still, I don't believe she raped him.

But it's not that type of show because horny teenage girls and dirty old men die horrible deaths.

White knights like Gai and Shu do heroic stuff, keep their purity.

[Manic]

The only thing that we can be 100% sure is that Shu is not a normal human. Let's see how they're going to explore this on the second season of the anime.

maybe i am in the minority but i always thought he was normal aside from gaining the void genome. Him gaining that ability i thought was more from mana interfering and wanting to protect shu, as the genome started to resonate with him once he began to act on his feelings to save inori.

Gai (Triton) would do anything for her since she saved him and gave him mouth to mouth, except betray Shu. Shu was his bro, the kid he looked up... his best friend. He hung out with Shu more than he did with Mana. It was Shu who saw him lying on the beach, I believe.

Gai was incredibly close to Shu, closer than he was to Mana. The only person he would ever snitch Mana out to was Shu.

I believe Mana either pulled his pants down and beat him up to put him in his place, assert dominance or suckered him into lowering his pants in order to beat him up and tie him up.

Anyhow, Gai adhered to "bros before hoes" and went to Shu shortly after that to tell Shu about Mana.

Gai would never be a puppet to Mana.

not sure why you posted this, ive been saying the whole time that she didnt rape him. I said all she was prolly doing is a lil S play to force him to do as she said, not that hed actually do it cus we already know her lil play didnt work on him.

[Xeones]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

And, while I was also quite shocked where the show went this week, it definitely is this kind of show, with Mana trying to do her ten year old brother in a church, while having Gais blood smeared on her lips. So, uh, sorry if I assume that a scene with pretty clear visual hints actually had pretty depraved things happening in it.

Yeah, that scene was particularly creepy... it looked like a scene out of Bible Black or something (maybe one could call it: "What happens when porn meets gore movies")

maybe i am in the minority but i always thought he was normal aside from gaining the void genome. Him gaining that ability i thought was more from mana interfering and wanting to protect shu, as the genome started to resonate with him once he began to act on his feelings to save inori.

I thought that as well at first. It was this particular episode that changed my mind... and when I say the he is not normal, I only mean that he has a deeper connection to the virus-event than most people and things are much more complicated than what we saw so far.

[Soji]

Originally Posted by Manic

maybe i am in the minority but i always thought he was normal aside from gaining the void genome. Him gaining that ability i thought was more from mana interfering and wanting to protect shu, as the genome started to resonate with him once he began to act on his feelings to save inori.

I have to agree again here. I thought the same thing

I thought that as well at first. It was this particular episode that changed my mind... and when I say the he is not normal, I only mean that he has a deeper connection to the virus than what we saw so far.

Can you explain better what you mean?

[mechalord]

Originally Posted by Manic

not sure why you posted this, ive been saying the whole time that she didnt rape him. I said all she was prolly doing is a lil S play to force him to do as she said, not that hed actually do it cus we already know her lil play didnt work on him.

It was for Magnus who said evidence points the other way.

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Now you are just making things up in your mind which are not even slightly supported by the visual evidence. ^^

And, while I was also quite shocked where the show went this week, it definitely is this kind of show, with Mana trying to do her ten year old brother in a church, while having Gais blood smeared on her lips. So, uh, sorry if I assume that a scene with pretty clear visual hints actually had pretty depraved things happening in it.

The blood was to point out she is "vampiric" in nature or a black widow... a man eating monster. She didn't want to have sex with Shu in the church. Gai asked Shu to meet there. Mana showed up before Shu arrived in order to shut up Gai. She wanted to kiss Shu, get him to love her back... not do him. She had just been caught by Shu trying to murder Shu's best friend. She got rejected and went berserk.

Remember, she has sex... world dies. She's become that sort of female that will bite off the head of the male she mates with... more like consume the entire human race her belongs to.

Blood on mouth = predatory nature, in nature to want to destroy human race... vampiric, a monster

[Xeones]

Can you explain better what you mean?

I'm not saying that he is a clone, genetically engineered or anything like that (although those are possibilities)... When I say he is not normal, it's just a form of saying that he is more connected to what happened that anyone else (especialyl now that Keido, Mana and Gai are dead)

The way I see it, he had a deep relationship with Mana, regardless of the love/incest content, they had a strong link with each other. Since she was the original host of the Virus, that probably is reflected on how the virus interacts with him. Not only that, but he was the first one to be chosen as a partner. That probably has an effect on how the virus and the void reacts with him (as posibly explaining why he wasn't infected, even being on "ground-zero" of the Lost Christmas).

Also, when the Daath kid (that name always reminds me o Tales of the Abyss ) saw that Shu had assumed his position as "King", he didn't hesitate to eliminate Keido... that's also a reason why I say that he is not normal anymore. I'm not saying that he is like a "Newtype" of the GC universe or anything like that... I only think that from now on, he's different from a ordinary human. This is probably something that will be explored in the second half of the series.

But hey, I can be completly wrong and Shu turns out to be just an ordinary guy in the wrong place at the wrong time... it's not like I can predict the future or anything

[Soji]

^Thanks is more clear to me now and I have to say, that after reading what you wrote...I agree on this.(more than on the other one).

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by mechalord

It was for Magnus who said evidence points the other way.

In case that sex = apocalypse, then you are obviously right. But I'm still iffy if that is completely the case. Anyway, she surely did do something to him, otherwise why show him pantsless in the first place?

Originally Posted by mechalord

The blood was to point out she is "vampiric" in nature or a black widow... a man eating monster. She didn't want to have sex with Shu in the church. Gai asked Shu to meet there. Mana showed up before Shu arrived in order to shut up Gai. She wanted to kiss Shu, get him to love her back... not do him. She had just been caught by Shu trying to murder Shu's best friend. She got rejected and went berserk.

Remember, she has sex... world dies. She's become that sort of female that will bite off the head of the male she mates with... more like consume the entire human race her belongs to.

Blood on mouth = predatory nature, in nature to want to destroy human race... vampiric, a monster

Uh, again, I think you are interpreting a ton into that scene. Sorry, but this is turning a bit too fan-fictiony for me.

[mechalord]

Originally Posted by Xeones

I'm not saying that he is a clone, genetically engineered or anything like that (although those are possibilities)... When I say he is not normal, it's just a form of saying that he is more connected to what happened that anyone else (especialyl now that Keido, Mana and Gai are dead)

The way I see it, he had a deep relationship with Mana, regardless of the love/incest content, they had a strong link with each other. Since she was the original host of the Virus, that probably is reflected on how the virus interacts with him. Not only that, but he was the first one to be chosen as a partner. That probably has an effect on how the virus and the void reacts with him (as posibly explaining why he wasn't infected, even being on "ground-zero" of the Lost Christmas).

Also, when the Daath kid (that name always reminds me o Tales of the Abyss ) saw that Shu had assumed his position as "King", he didn't hesitate to eliminate Keido... that's also a reason why I say that he is not normal anymore. I'm not saying that he is like a "Newtype" of the GC universe or anything like that... I only think that from now on, he's different from a ordinary human. This is probably something that will be explored in the second half of the series.

But hey, I can be completly wrong and Shu turns out to be just an ordinary guy in the wrong place at the wrong time... it's not like I can predict the future or anything

Daath sort of reminds me of Willhelm in Xenosaga. Anyhow... good points.

I think he's either a clone or how you said, a "special."