Fate/Apocrypha - Episode 15 Discussion / Poll

[Klashikari]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Fate/Apocrypha, Episode 15.

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[Guido]

Seen the episode. Got to need to watch it a few more times to comprehend more on Shirous' motivations to bring mankind's salvation through the Grail, though.

Spoiler:

Yes, I'm awared as well that Ruler Jeanne worrying over Sieg likely is more than mere concern, but more as a result of developing feelings for him. The enigma is if those feelings are truly hers or Leticia's, the girl whose body Jeanne's spirit is inhabiting?

From the beginning of the first part to Apocrypha, I was dead sure that Gordes's death flag will eventually signaled his death sometime midway into the series, but boy was I wrong?

I could see faint hints that he may have a possible epiphany regarding Yggmillenia's current situation, and as well a sort of heel face turn at beginning to see and approach homunculi more than just tools and resources, but to treat them more as actual people even if right now does it grudgingly because Yggmillenia has no other moves left but teaming with Ruler Jeanne.

Meanwhile, we have Black Archer nailing right on the spot about Fiore's personality to be too kind and moral to cope with the strain to fit as leader for Yggmillenia, so Caules promises Chiron to support Fiore once the servant leaves for good after the war's over.

And, yes, Sisigo and Mordred carefully are planning separate moves away from team Jeanne in order to hog for themselves the Grail at the end, but, hey, Sisigo needs descendants to pass on his magical crest due to his family's curse, as well as Mordred pulling out the choosing sword in order to become Britain's King, that isn't bad of a deal.

Though, I'll have the Grail to wish the greatest cat fight in the annals of the Greater War: Jack the Ripper vs Mordred vs Astolfo vs Jeanne and let's just throw Semiramis and Atalanta into the mix to have all female servants duking it out in a mud fight wearing swimsuits.

[John117xCortana]

From what I read about Ruler and her host....perhaps both of them are developing feelings for Sieg?

[IceHism]

Wow Jeanne is really cute. Astolfo is as well but the Jeanne kabedon and the way she looks at sieg is lol.

Sisigo and Moedred are also fantastic. I think it needs to focus more of them. When they are on screen, things tend to happen but it slows down to a crawl when Jeanne/sieg are on screen.

[Kanon]

Given how much Jeanne insisted Sieg doesn't use his third seal, you just know he will.

Achilles and Atalanta got on board with Shirou's plan. I guess that means it isn't as bad as we were led to think. Or maybe they're just pretending to go along with it until they find the right time to turn against him.

Sisigo's past was pretty sad. It was good he shared that with Mordred, as it allowed them to grow closer. So far they're still by far the best Master/Servant pair.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Why does Shaekespear help Shirou? Cause it is fun!

Yeah Gordes is pathetic but is also tsundere. All he wanted was a typical grail war. 16 servants this isn't a typical grail war to begin with!

Jeane and Letecia may both have the hots for Sieg.

All Sisigo wants is to have a child to pass down his crest. An heir. While Mordred wants her inheritance. Not to mention be acknowledge by "daddy".

[Twi]

Review and Recap. I like how Kairi’s backstory shows why he’s the way he is. He takes things easy because he’s already lost everything, but he has a chance to at least correct it with the Grail. It also explains why he has such a good relationship with Mordred, who could never get the fatherly attention of Arthur yet receives it with him.

I kind of want them to win.

[HandofFate]

lol @ "Do not use the last command spell no matter what"
That only makes fate protags want to use it more.

So what do mage houses that keep a pet or animal in the house use them for? Was the dog just used as a core for something?

[bakato]

Originally Posted by HandofFate

lol @ "Do not use the last command spell no matter what"
That only makes fate protags want to use it more.

So what do mage houses that keep a pet or animal in the house use them for? Was the dog just used as a core for something?

A demonstration of a technique done improperly or some such.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by HandofFate

lol @ "Do not use the last command spell no matter what"
That only makes fate protags want to use it more.

So what do mage houses that keep a pet or animal in the house use them for? Was the dog just used as a core for something?

Blood rituals.

[Dengar]

From what I understand, magi are rather abnormal and their moralities are usually all over the place, but generally quite unlike that of the average muggle. Most of them would probably look at a domesticated animal and think "what could I use this for?".

That's how it works, right?

[bakato]

Originally Posted by Dengar

From what I understand, magi are rather abnormal and their moralities are usually all over the place, but generally quite unlike that of the average muggle. Most of them would probably look at a domesticated animal and think "what could I use this for?".

That's how it works, right?

No one's born a dick, but children of mages grow up indoctrinated with values that differ from the average joe. They're taught to prioritize bloodline in order to give birth to capable heirs and pass down the family crest to those heirs, all in pursuit the root. When they're children, they're victims of an obsession and by the time they're adults, they're perpetrators of the same crime.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Dengar

From what I understand, magi are rather abnormal and their moralities are usually all over the place, but generally quite unlike that of the average muggle. Most of them would probably look at a domesticated animal and think "what could I use this for?".

That's how it works, right?

Whereas we look at most domesticated animals and don't need to think about it - food. We use them for food. And textiles.

[Dengar]

And emotional attachment in lieu of (or in addition to) children.

[Anh_Minh]

That's a minority case. There are, what, a few hundred million pets in the US? They kill eight billion chicken each year. Not to mention all the cows, pigs, turkeys...

I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm definitely not a vegetarian. I'm saying that claiming magi are different because of the way they treat domesticated animals is either oblivious or hypocritical. The truth is that if it was a cost effective way to power our cars or heat our homes, we would blood sacrifice the hell out of animals. That would require no change to our morality.

But maybe not our children's pets. Because that would be cruel to the children.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

15 episodes in and my main source of fun is still Go Lion and Mordy . I also like this episode where the show actually paused all the tired 'splosions to give more character to its...well...characters . That said, I don't really give a shit about Tokisada's party aside from a little bit of curiosity. Right now, Toki's party is a compilation of cardboard characters compared to the Ygg-coalition. Heck, even fatty Gordy got a character development or something akin to that. Let's hope Toki is a better-written character and has a better-written plan than that Darnic guy.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

That's a minority case. There are, what, a few hundred million pets in the US? They kill eight billion chicken each year. Not to mention all the cows, pigs, turkeys...

I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm definitely not a vegetarian. I'm saying that claiming magi are different because of the way they treat domesticated animals is either oblivious or hypocritical. The truth is that if it was a cost effective way to power our cars or heat our homes, we would blood sacrifice the hell out of animals. That would require no change to our morality.

But maybe not our children's pets. Because that would be cruel to the children.

I'd argue that it's an error to compare a dog to a chicken. They occupy wildly different spaces in our society.

[Anh_Minh]

It's cultural. Some people keep chicken as pets, some people eat dogs. And in "our" societies, some dogs are lab animals.

Again - there may be differences in morality between the average mage and the average muggle. But our treatment of animals isn't it.

And hey, it's easy for us to say "No, I won't sacrifice countless innocent human lives in a mad bid to raise an undead army and conquer the world" or whatever the hell mages get up to, because to us it's a completely unrealistic scenario. There's no temptation.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Dengar

From what I understand, magi are rather abnormal and their moralities are usually all over the place, but generally quite unlike that of the average muggle. Most of them would probably look at a domesticated animal and think "what could I use this for?".

That's how it works, right?

They are Mad Scientists.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

It's cultural. Some people keep chicken as pets, some people eat dogs. And in "our" societies, some dogs are lab animals.

Again - there may be differences in morality between the average mage and the average muggle. But our treatment of animals isn't it.

And hey, it's easy for us to say "No, I won't sacrifice countless innocent human lives in a mad bid to raise an undead army and conquer the world" or whatever the hell mages get up to, because to us it's a completely unrealistic scenario. There's no temptation.

And clearly, a european girl tends to keep cute dogs as a pet, as was her intent... So I'm not sure what it is you're trying to say.