Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 17 Discussion / Poll

[Workworkwork]

Originally Posted by Luxa

Considering Nanjo was threatened by Evatrice when he mentioned his grandchild, I wasn't sure the child even existed. (Like please, please, please, don't kill me, I've got to live, I've got a sick grandchild, please, please...) But considering you talking about her, she might be real. (Of course, you have VN information.)
But I don't think she's that important. (At least so far.)

Keep in mind that while Jessica HEARD Nanjo pleading at someone to not kill him, she did NOT see who. Therefore, with that info, you can deduce that while he WAS killed by someone, you cannot know for sure WHO, assuming you're anti-fantasy.

[Bureiku]

Originally Posted by Workworkwork

Keep in mind that while Jessica HEARD Nanjo pleading at someone to not kill him, she did NOT see who. Therefore, with that info, you can deduce that while he WAS killed by someone, you cannot know for sure WHO, assuming you're anti-fantasy.

Unless you can deduce that jesica killed him and that whole scene was a fake... DX i really hope jesica isnt the murderer but you never know in this situation

[Luxa]

Originally Posted by Workworkwork

Keep in mind that while Jessica HEARD Nanjo pleading at someone to not kill him, she did NOT see who. Therefore, with that info, you can deduce that while he WAS killed by someone, you cannot know for sure WHO, assuming you're anti-fantasy.

Heh, you are getting a longer answer than I expected when I started writing.
I was thinking about the "shown" plane of the gameboard. I usually keep my thoughts to that plane for two reasons.
If we take the anti-fantasy approach then we have got no solid things to believe. I think that most people assumes that what piece-Battler sees can be considered true. (With certain limits, someone mentioned something about him being drunk, was he drunk during the leash scene?) Also we believe the red truth to be correct. This approach is a bit arbitrary for me, why can't we accept what Jessica experiences, or what anyone experiences unless these things contradict the anti-fantasy approach? Or a pet theory of ours. So how do we know that Nanjo was even killed or someone talked? Until I can figure out a way to find out who to trust and what to trust (or until someone shows me a convincing argument in this matter), I'm simply enjoying a plot and try to guess what will happen.
Also you assumed that I was anti-fantasy. Actually, I think that anti-fantasy on the board level is a pretty elegant way of approach, and sometimes I like thinking about possible mundane ways to explain things. But for now I'm for a mixed solution: I think that the supernatural is involved on the board level, but not in the way it is shown. But as I haven't put enough effort into the show to actually come up with a possible alternative, I simply lay back and watch...

[Bureiku]

the only things i beilive you can trust is A. what batora witnesses to a certain extent B. Red Truth C.the end game results other than that everything else could be a lie

[rogerpepitone]

Regarding Nanjo, it could also be that he was, for some reason, playacting a scene to fool Jessica.

[Alair]

Nobody's wondering about the numbers? Weird...

No complaints whatsoever about the episode. Really, I thought they handled it just about perfectly from start to end. It gets my first 10.

[Crontica]

Originally Posted by Alair

Nobody's wondering about the numbers? Weird...

No complaints whatsoever about the episode. Really, I thought they handled it just about perfectly from start to end. It gets my first 10.

Thanks for reminding me of LOST... Trapped on a island, everyone ditching each other, a unknown force that can cause earthquakes, mysterious number.

[maximilianjenus]

Nanjo obviously left the company of useless jessica to join strong batler.

[Bureiku]

what could 07151129 MEAN!?!?!?!?!?! maybe it not two dates but something to do with july 15 thru november29th ?

[Marion]

Originally Posted by Bureiku

what could 07151129 MEAN!?!?!?!?!?! maybe it not two dates but something to do with july 15 thru november29th ?

July 15th is Battler's birthday so you can start from there.

[k//eternal]

151129 obviously stands for "th Expansion", it's an advertisement!!

[Strange]

Originally Posted by k//eternal

151129 obviously stands for "th Expansion", it's an advertisement!!

0715 most likely refers to Battler's birthday, but 1129--what could it be?

* January 13 – Council of Troyes: The Order of the Knights Templars is ordained by the Pope.
* Emperor Toba begins his cloistered rule, sharing power with Sutuku, ex-Emperor Shirakawa's son.
* Burgsteinfurt Castle is built in what is now Steinfurt, Germany.
* Henry of Blois becomes bishop of Winchester.

[edit] Births

* Henry the Lion, Duke of Saxony and Bavaria

[edit] Deaths

* January—Ranulph le Meschin, 1st Earl of Chester[1]
* March 8—Queen Urraca of Castile (b. 1082)
* July 24—Emperor Shirakawa of Japan (b. 1053)
* Prince Álmos of Hungary
* Constantine II of Armenia
* Thoros I of Armenia
* Symeon of Durham, English chronicler
* Margrave Leopold of Styria

It could just be Ryu using his own universe, but maybe there are some historical implications to the number/date. Eh, who knows, most likely not but it's driving me nuts.

[MarthX]

1129 might not stand for anything. It might be there to throw you off and only 0715 has any real significance.

[Arbane the Terrible]

Originally Posted by MarthX

1129 might not stand for anything. It might be there to throw you off and only 0715 has any real significance.

Conversely, it could have nothing to do with Battler's birthday. What it does mean, then, I have no idea.

[jeroz]

it means that in 11 years he's turning 29~

[k//eternal]

Just my own take, but I'm pretty convinced the 0715 date is a red herring--it suggests too obviously the "pair of dates" hypothesis, and if the second date is a piece of character info that we don't know, the puzzle of the numbers is unsolvable by the audience. If 11/29 was historically significant and relevant, someone would have dug it up by now for sure.

Not sure what it might be instead, though. Distances pointing to a geographical location? Something related to special constants (e, pi, phi)? 07th Expansion? You tell me

[Tsuyi]

It could be a play on number pronunciations. I wouldn't know how to arrange them to make sense, though this kind of thing is pretty common in anime. Japanese fans probably have logical sentences for the numbers already xD

07151129

Rei na higo ii tsuku
Rei na higoi itsuku

Shiz like that?

It might also have something to do with some sort of math puzzle or Roman letters that correspond to the numbers.

[Auria]

Originally Posted by Tsuyi

It could be a play on number pronunciations. I wouldn't know how to arrange them to make sense, though this kind of thing is pretty common in anime. Japanese fans probably have logical sentences for the numbers already xD

07151129

Rei na higo ii tsuku
Rei na higoi itsuku

Shiz like that?

It might also have something to do with some sort of math puzzle or Roman letters that correspond to the numbers.

Oh, I remember when I first took down the number I played aroung like hell with these pronounciations xD But unfortunately my japanese is very limited, so the only "lol I get something" words were Ichigo (for 15) and Reina for 07 (but only because you can randomly associate it with 07th expansion /Ryuukishi/Rena/Higurashi plays in July lawl/and so on that much.)

[Tsuyi]

Originally Posted by Auria

Oh, I remember when I first took down the number I played aroung like hell with these pronounciations xD But unfortunately my japanese is very limited, so the only "lol I get something" words were Ichigo (for 15) and Reina for 07 (but only because you can randomly associate it with 07th expansion /Ryuukishi/Rena/Higurashi plays in July lawl/and so on that much.)

Haha my Japanese is also really limited to just knowing a few words, phrases, number pronunciation, and hiragana/katakana recognition from watching anime and stuff... I have no grammar or language structure knowledge whatsoever D': I thought of 'Ichigo' but really now, what might strawberries have to do with Umineko? lol (Then again you never know....xDD)

[Auria]

Originally Posted by Tsuyi

Haha my Japanese is also really limited to just knowing a few words, phrases, number pronunciation, and hiragana/katakana recognition from watching anime and stuff... I have no grammar or language structure knowledge whatsoever D': I thought of 'Ichigo' but really now, what might strawberries have to do with Umineko? lol (Then again you never know....xDD)

There were strawberries in the meal which were poisoned.
The culprit kills for strawberries.
The culprit IS a strawberry. D: