Mai Otome 0 ~S.ifr~ Episode 3 Discussion / Poll

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Sakuya

I believe Yuna was the alien thing in Zwei.

Oh that thing. Heh, could not have thought about it since the name suddenly came out of nowhere.

- Tak

[Same_Shark]

[QUOTE=Tak;2080328]
Yet, regardless of the similarities, she was no HiME. The only HiME in Otome was Mikoto. No matter how powerful Rena was, no matter how close she was to being a HiME, she was not HiME due to the simple fact that Alyssa came from a line of replicas. And I wonder how she'd match against Mikoto.[QUOTE]


You bring up a good point that no one seems to understand. Alyssa was not a HiME at all. An artificial creation does not make it the very thing it imitates. The only reason Lena is so powerful is because her artificial-HiME DNA bonded with the nanomachines, making her stronger than the normal Otome. Most of the Otome are just normal girls with nanomachines and that's all. The best thing to do is stop assuming that Lena is a HiME because she's not.

[NyxOne]

Lena'd mop the floor with Mikoto, before anyone answers...

[Tak]

Originally Posted by NyxOne

Lena'd mop the floor with Mikoto, before anyone answers...

Fanboyism detected! Warning! Warning!

Seriously though, you do understand that Mikoto is fully capable (as she proved in the series) of kicking the behinds of many an Otome in ways and speeds that even Rena would be astonished? The difference? Mikoto never done it while materialized or assisted by her child.

The closest we have ever seen Mikoto release even a fraction of her power was during the battle for Windbloom, when Mikoto summoned the Black Valley (now a famous amusement park near you) to shield the Windbloom forces and associated allies.

- - - - -

Hmm, I sometimes wonder about Mai's own abilities as an Otome. Apparently, she is fully capable of handling an entire armada (with defending Otome), or a child by herself without assistance while others are often required to have one or two backups just in case. Even Arika needed Nina's help in taking down Yuna. Of course, I do not claim to know just how powerful Yuna is compared to Kagutsuchi, but it does not make a good showcase for Arika's power.

- Tak

[NyxOne]

Oh, no, I'm being entirely serious.

[Highman]

Originally Posted by Tak

Fanboyism detected! Warning! Warning!

Seriously though, you do understand that Mikoto is fully capable (as she proved in the series) of kicking the behinds of many an Otome in ways and speeds that even Rena would be astonished? The difference? Mikoto never done it while materialized or assisted by her child.

The closest we have ever seen Mikoto release even a fraction of her power was during the battle for Windbloom, when Mikoto summoned the Black Valley (now a famous amusement park near you) to shield the Windbloom forces and associated allies.

- - - - -

Hmm, I sometimes wonder about Mai's own abilities as an Otome. Apparently, she is fully capable of handling an entire armada (with defending Otome), or a child by herself without assistance while others are often required to have one or two backups just in case. Even Arika needed Nina's help in taking down Yuna. Of course, I do not claim to know just how powerful Yuna is compared to Kagutsuchi, but it does not make a good showcase for Arika's power.

- Tak

You know what I don't know If I'm taking Otome seriously on these kind of thoughts like these but anyway a good episode overall.

[Same_Shark]

Has anyone ever stopped to consider that the angel thing is the same thing as the giant naked Otome that appears during the materialising scenes? That's what I think it was, not a CHiLD.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Highman

You know what I don't know If I'm taking Otome seriously on these kind of thoughts like these but anyway a good episode overall.

I can't help it, I find certain aspects of Otome... fascinating...

- Tak (And the way Natsuki managed to exploit loopholes was just pure gold... Now, the question is, who gets which side of the bed?)

[Keroko]

I'd lake to take a moment to remind people that while Rena defeated an android by pile driving her into the earth, Arika defeated a weapon far surpassing M-9 in power. Schwartz considered a giant Ion Cannon and M-9 expendable in comparison to the Harmonium, and yet Arika won that battle while saving Nina at the same time.

She's not as weak as you all make her out to be. Sure, her battles were less flashy, but she's not any less powerful.

Originally Posted by Amaiko

her possible Child was able to hold off M-9 until she regained consciousness and M-9 was an enemy who was only killed after Rena piledrived her into Earl from several thousand miles above in space I have a really hard time seeing how anything short of Yuna would be capable of taking out Rena's Child. This woman practically eats Meister GEMs for breakfast and she's only sixteen: think of how powerful she'll probably become once she has a few more years of experience under her belt.

*shrug* That's what retcons do, they throw in contradictions to fix contradictions. In this case it would mean upping the power of her adversaries. Either that, or have a scene which shows Rena stopping her Child coming out (for whatever reason she stopped it in the first place).

Originally Posted by Amaiko

And who's to say that Shiro was or ever is Rena's "most precious person"? If that was a Child she manifested against M-9 there, I seriously doubt that Shiro was her "most precious person" because at that point she'd known him for all of a day and a half. Not only that, if he is Arika's father, she waited over ten years to get together with him, which doesn't exactly scream out that Shiro was the most important person to her: I'd put Bruce and Sifr far higher on Rena's personal "most precious" scale than him. Remember that Rena is insanely dutiful: this was the woman who put Nina's life ahead of her own daughter's even though she was no longer the official Otome for Windbloom.

Well, of course Shiro isn't Rena's most precious person in Sifr (or rather, I don't believe that either) but if Shiro = Arika's daddy, then it's obvious he very much will be. And as Mai showed in HiME, the most precious person powering the Child can change over time.

Originally Posted by Amaiko

I have a really hard time seeing Rena making anyone more precious to her than her "masters", since she couldn't even do that with her own daughter.

So you are saying Bruce is Arika's father?

Originally Posted by Amaiko

I've also see the Japanese use "Oh hory night" for "Oh holy night" and "Blookryn" for "Brooklyn", (and let's not forget "Materiarise" from the first episode of Otome) so I tend to take any Japanese spellings with a huge grain of salt. Since both "Lena" and "Rena" are actual names, it's hard to tell which one is actually "correct", "evidence" aside.

Let's not forget 'Ban Windbloom' while 'Van Windbloom' makes much more sense. <_<

Originally Posted by Amaiko

I've always taken that scene as evidence that the whole "sperm destroys nanomachines!" thing isn't exactly true: it renders Otome powerless, but because it changes the nanomachines into something different, not destroys them entirely and that bit was at least partially due to Arika being the child of a former Otome: Rena somehow passed the "altered" nanomachines down to her child. That would also explain Yohko's comment about how well Arika was adjusting to the nanomachines, unlike some of the other girls, and also the whole Shinso thing, since only an Otome who has given birth can be one.

Inherited nanomachines? Why go the long route? This is Rena's child, remember? If her mother can break every rule put forward by Otome, then I'd say her child can manage this too. So rather then say Arika inherited her mothers nanomachines, I'd say she inherited her mothers powers.

Originally Posted by Amaiko

Maybe, and maybe not. Remember how John Smith mocked her in episode 16 or 17, saying that Arika hadn't even unlocked the full power of the robe and that she was basically using it on it's lowest setting? Then again, Rena's body being captive might have also had something to do with that, because of Miyu's comment about Rena's soul finally being set free after Arika destroyed the Valkyrie crypt. You could probably make it go either way.

I'm actually a supporter of the 'Rena's being alive sealed off the abilities of the Souten'

Originally Posted by Amaiko

Rena was breaking GEMs on a regular basis before she found the BSS, which Arika never has (remember that Rena burned through her Coral GEM in a month: Arika never showed any signs of anything like that)

On this point, do note that Arika signed a contract with Mashiro using the Souten very quickly. While it's weak, it may explain why she didn't break GEM's on a monthly basis. Most of her powers were already being funneled through the Souten. It's also possible that by simply carrying the Souten, it acted as a suppressor.

And remember, while she didn't burn through a GEM, she did burn through a Coral robe in her very first fight with Nina.

Originally Posted by Amaiko

and now we have Rena manifesting incredibly strong HiME powers as well, with Arika never showing a single sign of the above before getting the BSS and only then with the "glowing golden hair" bit.

Which is something Rena didn't manage to do. This may mean that Arika doesn't lack her mother's powers, just that they are concentrated in a different area.

Originally Posted by Amaiko

Sifr really sent the whole balance of power out of whack and I don't think it was such a good idea.

As I pointed out on the top of my post, it's not as out of whack as you think.

Originally Posted by Same_Shark

You bring up a good point that no one seems to understand. Alyssa was not a HiME at all. An artificial creation does not make it the very thing it imitates. The only reason Lena is so powerful is because her artificial-HiME DNA bonded with the nanomachines, making her stronger than the normal Otome. Most of the Otome are just normal girls with nanomachines and that's all. The best thing to do is stop assuming that Lena is a HiME because she's not.

Alyssa may not have been a true HiME, but for all intents and purposes she was one. This is even focused on by Reito to explain why Mikoto is still there.

So no, I won't stop calling Rena a HiME. Concidering I never stated she was a true one to begin with anyway. Artificial or not, for all intents and purposes a HiME is a HiME.

Originally Posted by NyxOne

Lena'd mop the floor with Mikoto, before anyone answers...

Mikoto? As in 'Mai cheerfully announced she couldn't win even with a Robe' Mikoto?

I doubt Rena would wipe the floor with her. Rather, I think we've found an even match for Rena.

Originally Posted by Same_Shark

Has anyone ever stopped to consider that the angel thing is the same thing as the giant naked Otome that appears during the materialising scenes? That's what I think it was, not a CHiLD.

There's a few key problems with that theory though.

First, the 'giant naked Otome' thing is always colored in the same color as the resulting Robe. When Rena used it outside of the transformation, the first time to save everyone from the Ion Cannon, and the second time to wield the massive Akatsuki, this didn't change. So obviously, this was something different.

Second, the design of the bow the hands were holding were a vastly different design and color then Rena's weaponry. The Hope of the Blue Sky and Akatsuki all share a similar design, yet this one differed completely. Once again showing this was not something done by the Souten.

Third, Rena did not want this power to materialize. If it was a manifestation of herself, she already used it twice at that point. Why wouldn't she want it to manifest a third time to kick M-9'of her?

Fourth, her mark was specifically shown glowing, if it were normal Souten powers there would be no reason to do this. The only reason to do so would be to highlight this wasn't her normal Otome powers being used.

[NyxOne]

I keep saying that she'll mop the floor with Mikoto because, by all intents and purposes, Lena is the most bloody broken combatant I have ever seen. The most we see of Mikoto, though my memory is vague, is her facing Nina, and Mai making that comment. Plus, Mai is nowhere near the level of Lena.

[Brandt]

With regards to the hand we see firing the bow and arrow, let's not forget the mythological origins of Artemis. In Greek mythology, Artemis was the goddess of "the wilderness, the hunt and wild animals, and fertility" and was "armed with a bow and arrows" (Encyclopedia Mythica). That Rena's first robe, the Lofty Crimson Jade, seems appropriate, if not a nod towards Artemis, given Rena's main weapon was a bow.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by NyxOne

I keep saying that she'll mop the floor with Mikoto because, by all intents and purposes, Lena is the most bloody broken combatant I have ever seen. The most we see of Mikoto, though my memory is vague, is her facing Nina, and Mai making that comment. Plus, Mai is nowhere near the level of Lena.

Actually, Nina never fought the real Mikoto, and even had a somewhat difficult time pacifying Mikoto's shadow.

I would not say Mai is nowhere near the level of Rena, because Mai by herself is actually quite powerful. Now, am I saying Mai is as powerful as Rena? Definitely not. But is Mai at least able to slow Rena down? Thats a big probability. One has to remember that although Mai saw very little screen time, she was the most powerful Otome of her generation and possibly still is. At least until Arika's full potential is awakened. Moreover, judging by her performance in Zwei, where she actually took down a Child by herself while every other Otome (including the 5 columns) either had to tag team or rely on backups simply conveys to me that Mai is far more than just what meets the eye.

As for power comparison between Rena and Mikoto, while it is true Rena quickly took down her former colleagues, she had done so in a robe, and an insanely upgraded one at that. Mikoto on the other hand, pretty much took out Otome the same way and speed that Rena did. The difference? As I have illustrated before was that she done so without robes or even releasing a fraction of her power. Never mind the fact that Mikoto was half a sleep when she did that.

- Tak

[NyxOne]

Slowing down does not equate to defeating, and I say without a doubt that Lena could probably rack up a tally of solo Child kills far beyond Mai's.

As for Mikoto...my belief's unchanged.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by NyxOne

Slowing down does not equate to defeating, and I say without a doubt that Lena could probably rack up a tally of solo Child kills far beyond Mai's.

You are not reading my posts correctly. I mentioned nowhere on the post that Mai was able to defeat Rena nor did I equate slowing down to defeat. I specifically stated that she was not as powerful as Rena, but Mai was certainly more powerful than any of the Otome encountered by Rena during her full transformation.

Originally Posted by NyxOne

As for Mikoto...my belief's unchanged.

The facts are there, you refuse to review it. Fine by me, you have the right to be wrong.

- Tak

[NyxOne]

And I said that what you said- Mai being able to slow Lena down- doesn't equate to her winning.

And Mikoto can have all the power in the world. Artemis is as broken as hell.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by NyxOne

And I said that what you said- Mai being able to slow Lena down- doesn't equate to her winning.

This does not change the point that is being made though. Mai, the strongest Otome of her generation, says she has no chance of wining against Mikoto. From what we've seen of Mai, she could at least hold her ground for a while against Rena. Mikoto is stronger then Mai, and judging by her voice when she explains that, quite a bit so. Going by this, we know there is a hell of a lot Mikoto did not show us, and the things she did show us (summoning an entire valley) weren't all that shabby. So simply saying 'Rena would wipe the floor with Mikoto' is a stretch to say the least.

Originally Posted by NyxOne

And Mikoto can have all the power in the world. Artemis is as broken as hell.

So are Mikoto's true HiME powers.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Keroko

This does not change the point that is being made though. Mai, the strongest Otome of her generation, says she has no chance of wining against Mikoto. From what we've seen of Mai, she could at least hold her ground for a while against Rena. Mikoto is stronger then Mai, and judging by her voice when she explains that, quite a bit so. Going by this, we know there is a hell of a lot Mikoto did not show us, and the things she did show us (summoning an entire valley) weren't all that shabby. So simply saying 'Rena would wipe the floor with Mikoto' is a stretch to say the least.

I kept on recalling the conversation between Mai and Natsuki during Arika's imminent duel with Mikoto. Although short, it revealed a great deal about the Otome's relative strength.

When Mai spoke of how Mikoto is fully capable of taking her out even with her robes on, she was basically stating *Sigh* Good luck, Arika.

Natsuki on the other hand, had an expression that was simply priceless. When Mai told her she was unable to match Mikoto's powers, Natsuki had a no fucking way look written all over. It was hilarious, but also indicated one thing: Mai was easily far more powerful than Natsuki, Shizuru and the rest of the 5 Columns. The Legendary Otome was terribly strong, even if she was not as powerful as Rena.

- - - - -

Though here is an interesting bit: In the Mai-Otome fighting game, if Rena and Mai happen to be up against each other, in their pre-duel conversation, Rena would comment on Mai for being an extraordinary individual due to her capacity to inherit the legendary Fire Stirring Ruby.

- Tak

[Same_Shark]

Originally Posted by Tak

Though here is an interesting bit: In the Mai-Otome fighting game, if Rena and Mai happen to be up against each other, in their pre-duel conversation, Rena would comment on Mai for being an extraordinary individual due to her capacity to inherit the legendary Fire Stirring Ruby.

- Tak

So apparently, the Fire Stirring Ruby is also a Super Meister GEM along with the Pure White Diamond, the Blue Sky Sapphire, and the Ultimate Black Diamond.

Do you think this could be a sign that Fumi was not the only Otome to stop that war?

[Keroko]

I think you may be on to something there, Same. It does not sound unlikely (in fact, it sounds far more likely) that more powerful Otome were involved in the ending of the war.

[Same_Shark]

Originally Posted by Keroko

I think you may be on to something there, Same. It does not sound unlikely (in fact, it sounds far more likely) that more powerful Otome were involved in the ending of the war.

I mean sure, Fumi may have been the first Otome and all, but that war was surely fought by more than two factions. Fumi was going to need all the help she could get. That's where all the other Super Meisters come in. I guess Sikon and I had a similiar idea about that.