[Jap-Manga] Claymore Statistics, Power Levels, and Theories

[azurie]

well 7 years of living in the ice and snow would cool anyone's hot head off some geesh.

. . . . . hmm wonder if she needs a warm body now . . .*ponders* LADIES!!!!!

[Fenrir_valindri]

Hey! Miria is mine

You can have your pick from the rest :P

[Tempest35]

*swoops in on Fenrir* EHHHH!? *gnaws*

I've let you have the thread but that's taking it tooooo far, buddy. XP~~

And Clare's still very much a hot-head - just a bit stronger and more focused. Miria and Deneve even set up a buddy system with Yuma for Clare so they can keep track of her. awww. I think Miria watches her more than anyone though and no, that's not speaking from a shoujou-ai perspective (although it wouldn't hurt...)

She's probably the only one who can take Clare out without getting sliced to bits anyway.

[Fate_Archer]

Originally Posted by Flar

Teresa was probably superior in range too, when she was still a trainee she sensed Raphaella from one town away. I don't see any reason she couldn't be the eye of her generation.

Little Teresa often gone rogue and fled from her training. So she could just be around or passing by.
That forest where Teresa tracked Raphaela's yoki was around the closest town from the Org, in a moderate distant, as stated by Raphaela.
But it's still amazing how she tracked such low amount of Yoki from Raphaela, who's nobody-knows how much time repressing her yoki.

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

This entire theory here is shot down by the simple fact that Riful's words were for directed towards the partially awakened only hence the "half-way there."

Priscilla unlocked all here latent potential, but partially awakened Claymores increase there natural potential, making themselves stronger then they were before.

Ok, so lets say that instead of Priscilla awakening after that tragic episode where Teresa lost her head, she somehow managed to go back to her Claymore form.
Now she is a partially awakened Claymore, and naturally, is even stronger than before.

And then, drastically, she awakens a few days later.

So, this new Priscilla would be stronger than the Priscilla that awakened right after killing Teresa, isn't it?

See, that's the point.
If Priscilla could be stronger, she haven't unleashed all her latent potential. Priscilla unleashed all the powers that she had at that very moment, and maybe, something more. (Like why only her yoki jumped from A+ to Ex?)
Rubel's statement would be right only if he meant this.
But he used the word potential.

Potential is the ability or possibility to evolve and develop.

Anyway, maybe we better wait for the next statement regarding this subject.
These databooks might have some information about that, especially in the pages about Priscilla and the process of awakening.

That may be true, but the problem is, there are two types of potential we have now;

Normal Warrior's Potential
and
Partially-Awakened Potential

A normal warrior unlocks all there potential by awakening while a partially-awakened warrior gains more and more strength the longer she goes without awakening, because she is "half-way there."

I'm not sure if there are really two types of potential as you say.
I just think potential is potential.

Regarding this, both half-awaken and regular Claymores can develop their strength, speed, mental resistance and willpower, and most of their other traits in the same way. (training, fighting, hunting)
Yoki is the only trait that would be more difficult for regular Claymores to develop, since Yoki is greatly increased only when they pass their limits.

So, I don't see any difference beyond that.

Maybe overall, but not Yoki-manipulation wise.

Ok, but note that it becomes much easier to make someone awake when you have the yoki of an AB, as stated by Clare.
Aligning yoki directly with an AB, like that guy did, would make the yoki level of a Claymore go very high or by aligning the yoki, he could manipulate the flow as he wanted, making a Claymore attack her comrades or even making her awake.

Teresa's ability was superior, because only someone with Priscilla's level off power, (in other words no-one else in the series) can produce that much power to overwhelm Teresa's senses.

It is better, but not in all circumstances. For example, lets pick that small and very limited place and the opponent being Duff, who can fire projectiles.
With the little space for running and evading, Teresa's skill in that situation, wouldn't be the best suited.
Duff could just fire his poles all the day long against Teresa and she would be able to just try to avoid the poles or reflect them, in that tight place, I guess. (Well, one time Duff would be tired and would stop producing his poles, but even so...)
In the other way, Galatea can just change the place of the target or simply shut Duff's mouth, avoiding the poles without moving a muscle.
Yeah, there was a time where Galatea's technique became useless, but when it worked, she was seriously kicking Duff's ass.
Heck, Galatea could just give her back and walk away while she laughs (internally) of Duff's miss.
Clare, who inherited Teresa's technique, could just have her legs squashed by Duff's pole.
All in all, Teresa's ability is better for most scenarios, I guess, but it really depends.

And also, besides Priscilla, there are serious candidates for this level of yoki, like Alicia and Beth, probably Miata and the way the things are going, there are probably more mental-disturbed but powerful girls waiting too.

While with Galatea, anyone with a decent amount of Yoki could overwhelm her ability simply by focusing their energy.

Theoretically yes, you are right.

It is quite possible, on the reverse side Teresa could learn the exact same skill Galatea has, and could probably do it better.

It's possible I think, but it would be much more complex to learn, I believe. If she could make better, I won't try to guess.

Not sure how Galatea would train up a "danger-sense" Yoki skill without any help though.

In the same way Teresa developed hers. All alone and Killing lots of yomas, I guess. Teresa was known as the type of Claymore who doesn't like to be along with others.
And there isn't the really need of comrades. Yomas and AB are perfect for this kind of training, they have yoki after all.

When the opponent is coming for the blow, she just need to predict the opponents move by sensing the yoma flow, and evade it.
The prediction is not quite the problem, I would say that speed and reflexes are the points that Galatea should train.
Galatea has the profile needed for such technique. But it becomes stupidity evading an attack that you could just make don't hit you.
Anyway, if Galatea really wants this technique, she would have to do this.

Just Yomas are fine, the things Teresa mostly killed (or what we have seen Teresa killing) were Yomas. The only time we saw Teresa facing an AB was against Rosemary, and it was supposed to be just a black card.

She is quite the looker i'll admit, but Miria is my preffered type.

I see.

BTW for the Clare's Yoki-sensing range thing, Clare may be superior to Cynthia at Yoki-sensing detail but Cynthia could indeed have longer range.

I think you meant Tabitha.
Cynthia is the defensive number #14 with double pony-tail.

----------------

About the Clare's low stats thing:

Well, she is the Organization's number #47.
This should answer most of the questions.

[Flar]

Originally Posted by Fate_Archer

But it's still amazing how she tracked such low amount of Yoki from Raphaela, who's nobody-knows how much time repressing her yoki.

Yeah, especially when intensity and range of perception are linked, as we see when Galatea senses Isley and Luciela. It seems to be like sound: the fainter it is, the closest you have to be. I guess it also applies to Yoki perception and Yoki sense: you can hear a sound from afar without understanding what it means, and you can be near deaf yet still understand what the sound means.

So, this new Priscilla would be stronger than the Priscilla that awakened right after killing Teresa, isn't it?

Yes, that's what Riful has been saying. This is consistent with the fact that single digits make strong AB, yet low number claymores can start from a low number, improve and become single digits.

Rubul could lie or be wrong, he's not the author.

About the Clare's low stats thing:

Well, she is the Organization's number #47.
This should answer most of the questions.

So, what would Clare's stats be right now? And what about the other Ghost 7 after these seven years of hellish training?

I say For Clare

Yoki: A+
Agility: A
Strength: B
Mental: B
Sensing: A+
Leadership: E

[dee32]

Originally Posted by Flar

So, what would Clare's stats be right now? And what about the other Ghost 7 after these seven years of hellish training?

I say For Clare

Yoki: A+
Agility: A
Strength: B
Mental: B
Sensing: A+
Leadership: E

I think after 7 years of hard training everyone at lease should have at lease one "A" in there stats all execpt Yuma of course. Everyone Mental and Sensing should be up. Since it would take great mental strength to erase Yoki auras and with there auras erased there senses should be sharper.



Miria

Yoki: A
Agility: A+
Strength: B
Mental: A
Sensing:B
Leadership: S
------------------
Deneve

Yoki: B+
Agility: A
Strength: A
Mental: B
Sensing: B
Leadership: B+
--------------------
Helen

Yoki: C+
Agility: A
Strength: B+
Mental: B
Sensing:C+
Leadership: D
--------------------
Cynthia

Yoki: C+
Agility: B
Strength: B
Mental: A
Sensing: B+
Leadership: B+
---------------------
Tabitha

Yoki: C
Agility:B+
Strength: C+
Mental: B+
Sensing: A
Leadership: E
------------------------
Yuma

Yoki: D
Agility: D
Strength: C
Mental: C
Sensing: C
Leadership: E
------------------------
Clare

Yoki: A
Agility: A
Strength: B
Mental: B+
Sensing: A+
Leadership: C

[brutalman]

Originally Posted by Fate_Archer

About the Clare's low stats thing:

Well, she is the Organization's number #47.
This should answer most of the questions.

The point is that the Org rates her as 47, it's that these were the Org's ratings for her just before Pieta. She was obviously a whole lot stronger than 47 by then.

[Imba]

I rely wonder , who will win Duff or Rigardo. We all saw how powerfull Duff is , and the spines that he shoots are devastating , but we did not had a chance to see if he is fast and agile enough to match Rigardo`s speed ... if he needs to match it at all.
Sorry for my english.

[NoSanninWa]

Originally Posted by Imba

I rely wonder , who will win Duff or Rigardo. We all saw how powerfull Duff is , and the spines that he shoots are devastating , but we did not had a chance to see if he is fast and agile enough to match Rigardo`s speed ... if he needs to match it at all.
Sorry for my english.

Honestly, I can't see how this is really in question. Galatea + Jean + Clare totally beat Duff.

By Contrast Miria + Helen + Deneve + Clare were all totally getting their butts kicked without a prayer of even scratching Rigardo until Clare Awoke. You can argue that Galatea is stronger than Mira if you want to, but honestly Miria was being so totally pwned by Rigardo. Even if Galatea is stronger than Miria, she isn't enough stronger to make Miria look weak.

No contest.

[brutalman]

The only way I could see Duph having a chance is if Rigardo couldn't actually penetrate his armour. Rigardo always seemed to be more about speed than strength, and Duph's skin was pretty tough.

Even if he couldn't cut straight through Duphs's skin, I'd still bet on Rigardo. He had a functioning brain.

[NoSanninWa]

Duff has a functioning brain also! It's his girlfriend's. As long as she's around he's happy to let her do his thinking for him.

[azurie]

Originally Posted by Tempest35

*swoops in on Fenrir* EHHHH!? *gnaws*

I've let you have the thread but that's taking it tooooo far, buddy. XP~~

And Clare's still very much a hot-head - just a bit stronger and more focused. Miria and Deneve even set up a buddy system with Yuma for Clare so they can keep track of her. awww. I think Miria watches her more than anyone though and no, that's not speaking from a shoujou-ai perspective (although it wouldn't hurt...)

She's probably the only one who can take Clare out without getting sliced to bits anyway.

you have a point there since Miria was (while active in the org.) the higher ranked warrior thus making her the more skilled so to speak. she stood the better chance against what clare is now which as i can tell is beyond what any of them are. Clare that i would hazard a guess is closer to an AB than any of the other 6 who are either just normal claymores or half awakeneds plus clare did follow Rifil's advice though she did so without meaning to.

[Imba]

But Galatea was owned by Duff (when Clare went to rescue Jean). And Duff did not want to kill them and he did not have space to move around and dodge their atacks and so. And Undine was able to block Rigardos atack so he may have hard time causing any damage to Duff

[Fenrir_valindri]

Originally Posted by Fate_Archer

Little Teresa often gone rogue and fled from her training. So she could just be around or passing by.
That forest where Teresa tracked Raphaela's yoki was around the closest town from the Org, in a moderate distant, as stated by Raphaela.
But it's still amazing how she tracked such low amount of Yoki from Raphaela, who's nobody-knows how much time repressing her yoki.

Rafaela was still amazed by Teresa's immense range when she was still just a trainee though, and a town away is still a town away, especially in a medieval setting.

Ok, so lets say that instead of Priscilla awakening after that tragic episode where Teresa lost her head, she somehow managed to go back to her Claymore form.
Now she is a partially awakened Claymore, and naturally, is even stronger than before.

And then, drastically, she awakens a few days later.

So, this new Priscilla would be stronger than the Priscilla that awakened right after killing Teresa, isn't it?

Yes, something along those lines.

See, that's the point.
If Priscilla could be stronger, she haven't unleashed all her latent potential. Priscilla unleashed all the powers that she had at that very moment, and maybe, something more. (Like why only her yoki jumped from A+ to Ex?)
Rubel's statement would be right only if he meant this.
But he used the word potential.

Potential is the ability or possibility to evolve and develop.

Let me rephrase that, partially awakening is unnatural potential when Priscilla awakened she unleashed all her natural potential and went from a A+ Yoki to EX, which is higher then anything else in the series.

Anyway, maybe we better wait for the next statement regarding this subject.
These databooks might have some information about that, especially in the pages about Priscilla and the process of awakening.

Think this will be the last data book for a while.

I'm not sure if there are really two types of potential as you say.
I just think potential is potential.

I explained it above, what the partially-awakened are doing is something BEYOND the norm, something that should not be possible.

Regarding this, both half-awaken and regular Claymores can develop their strength, speed, mental resistance and willpower, and most of their other traits in the same way. (training, fighting, hunting)
Yoki is the only trait that would be more difficult for regular Claymores to develop, since Yoki is greatly increased only when they pass their limits.

So, I don't see any difference beyond that.

Up to a certain point, but strength, speed, agility, yoki, are all affected by the partial awakening, as we have seen with Deneve, and Helen; partially-awakening affects there physical abilities as well.

Clare did not start to advance in any of her physical areas till after she partially awakened, so we can assume that she had hit her limit in that department.

Not to mention Yoki is probably the most important stat of all, because it increases all other physical stats when used.

Ok, but note that it becomes much easier to make someone awake when you have the yoki of an AB, as stated by Clare.
Aligning yoki directly with an AB, like that guy did, would make the yoki level of a Claymore go very high or by aligning the yoki, he could manipulate the flow as he wanted, making a Claymore attack her comrades or even making her awake.

Considering the experience gap between that AB and Galatea, I am being pretty generous in saying that Galatea was about as skilled as he was, but he was able to manipulate multiple Claymores at once as well, something we are not sure if Galatea is capable of.

It is better, but not in all circumstances. For example, lets pick that small and very limited place and the opponent being Duff, who can fire projectiles.
With the little space for running and evading, Teresa's skill in that situation, wouldn't be the best suited.
Duff could just fire his poles all the day long against Teresa and she would be able to just try to avoid the poles or reflect them, in that tight place, I guess. (Well, one time Duff would be tired and would stop producing his poles, but even so...)

As Clare demonstrated in her first battle against an AB, it only takes minimal effort to dodge a large amount of attacks with Yoki-sensing, Teresa could probably simply walk up to Dauf through the storm of projectiles. Not to mention that limited space also affected Dauf's ability to fight effectively.

In the other way, Galatea can just change the place of the target or simply shut Duff's mouth, avoiding the poles without moving a muscle.
Yeah, there was a time where Galatea's technique became useless, but when it worked, she was seriously kicking Duff's ass.
Heck, Galatea could just give her back and walk away while she laughs (internally) of Duff's miss.
Clare, who inherited Teresa's technique, could just have her legs squashed by Duff's pole.
All in all, Teresa's ability is better for most scenarios, I guess, but it really depends.

As I said, it is specialization, it will works great when it works, but it works far less often, and in fewer scenarios.

Clare is also no were near as good as Teresa in the Yoki-sensing thing, or anywhere near as powerful as even Galatea at the time.

And also, besides Priscilla, there are serious candidates for this level of yoki, like Alicia and Beth, probably Miata and the way the things are going, there are probably more mental-disturbed but powerful girls waiting too.

There are other candidates yes, but we have no confirmation of any of them being stronger then 70%+ Priscilla, as at this point, Priscilla was generating more Yoki then a #2 AB (Rosemary) judging by Teresa's reaction to Priscilla at that point.

My money is on Miata :P

Theoretically yes, you are right.

It's possible I think, but it would be much more complex to learn, I believe. If she could make better, I won't try to guess.

I would just think it would be more time consuming, and not really necessary for someone of Teresa's level, although Clare could stand to learn it I would think, if she has calmed down enough for it.

In the same way Teresa developed hers. All alone and Killing lots of yomas, I guess. Teresa was known as the type of Claymore who doesn't like to be along with others.
And there isn't the really need of comrades. Yomas and AB are perfect for this kind of training, they have yoki after all.

When the opponent is coming for the blow, she just need to predict the opponents move by sensing the yoma flow, and evade it.
The prediction is not quite the problem, I would say that speed and reflexes are the points that Galatea should train.
Galatea has the profile needed for such technique. But it becomes stupidity evading an attack that you could just make don't hit you.
Anyway, if Galatea really wants this technique, she would have to do this.

Just Yomas are fine, the things Teresa mostly killed (or what we have seen Teresa killing) were Yomas. The only time we saw Teresa facing an AB was against Rosemary, and it was supposed to be just a black card.

True enough, but I wonder if Galatea has the time to do that with the Organization breathing down her neck.

I see.

Rawr, I'll even fight tempest35 off for her, i'm a martial artists and not afraid to use my training

I think you meant Tabitha.
Cynthia is the defensive number #14 with double pony-tail.

Right, i'm bad with names sometimes >.<

About the Clare's low stats thing:

Well, she is the Organization's number #47.
This should answer most of the questions.

Indeed, but they obviously knew about Clare's quick sword judging by her profile, so they must have known their stats were behind on her.


-------------------------

As for Rigaldo vs Dauf, we never got to see Dauf fight at full strength really, he was trapped in a small area that limited his mobility and allowed his opponent to attack him from weird angles. I imagine Dauf is alot more dangerous in an open area, when dodging actually becomes an option for something as big as him.

Rigaldo was indeed a speed demon, but Dauf's armor and range advantage could well make the difference.

It is hard to judge overall though, as we have never really seen Dauf fight all-out in a situation that does not put him at a disadvantage.

[khryoleoz]

I'm a little late contributing to this thread, so much of what I say was probably already brought up by others.

Originally Posted by Blablabla

So Alicia and Beth are actually the strongest Claymores in history (even without talking about the "awaken" tip). No need to discuss more, facts are here.

(and therefore, Teresa even if awakened is no deal for the Abyssals and so, the Priscilla that kicked Luciela).

Yeah, well if these are stats derived from the org's measurement, I'll say again that they've been duped concerning Teresa's who hid from them the full extent of her own potential rather well.

The question I would ask is how substantial the differences are between that A and A+. If it's a small degree and if it is true that it is that single attribute in which Teresa's quality is S class that gives her the edge, then it is on that level that she bests the twins.

We should factor in that Alicia "awakens" in order to be that Abyssal threat, so her stats are going to change accordingly. Unfortunately, we don't seem to have any of the Abyssal's stats yet, and can only assume where they "would be" inferior to Priscilla's for now.

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

It is also mentioned that Priscilla was ideal for fighting Teresa because Teresa could not detect her Yoki, but we all know that plan went straight to hell when Priscilla gave herself away and they all released Yoki in hopes of overwhelming her (and thus screwing themselves even more.)

In case this is not so obvious, Priscilla wasn't expected to be ideal for this fight by simply being able to completely supress her yoki alone (normal people emit no yoki but can't hope to be a threat to Teresa). Her raw fighting abilities must be on par with Teresa's. They pit her against Teresa under those assumptions, which indicates that they've completely underestimated Teresa, and did so likely because they just hadn't a clue about what a wonderful person Teresa is.

Originally Posted by Fate_Archer

I was thinking the same even before these databooks showed up. Following the logic that every time you get close to awake and go back, you become stronger, hence the superiority of the semi-awakened, the return from a complete awakening would turn Alicia each time even more stronger.
So, powerful enough, Alicia can still evolve, while Riful, Easley and even Priscilla are predestined to stay on their same levels.

If that's true, it would make much sense all investments, sacrifices and the time spent by the Org on these two.

I've followed your reasoning up to this point. We seem to agree that awakening is the END of yoki release, so having awakened, ABs are fixed at that power level. They can supress it if they choose but in terms of their raw power the AOs can't hope to become better than Priscilla. What Alicia does is "awaken". So she is at her full potential in that state. Soul-linking w/Beth only allows the preservation of her human consciousness and the return to the "unawakened" state. So other than becoming more competent at "awakening" and "sleeping", I can't see how repeating this process will make her stronger over time.

[PGilis]

As far i can tell, these stats are not something to rely too much. They just considerate the most known Claymores, not the remaining from the 47 claymores, or youmas, or humans (even thought probably they will suck at zero! ).

Besides, looking the story of the organization, i'd say they choose positions more according Physical Power than mental Power. Just look the number who Priscilla, Ophelia and later Miata got, even thought they're crazy bitches.

The same goes to the choice of leaders on hunting groups. The lowest number (highest rank) allways become the leader. Unless, of course, the highest ranking is a imature newbie not completely reliable like Priscilla or Miata. So, there's some exceptions to the rule.

So, i think great leadership and willpower would work better as Special Traits than as Stats.

[Sassarai]

Originally Posted by PGilis

As far i can tell, these stats are not something to rely too much. They just considerate the most known Claymores, not the remaining from the 47 claymores, or youmas, or humans (even thought probably they will suck at zero! ).

Yea Seriously stats are only useful in Role playing games -_-. That's why I spent like 2 years leveling on up crabs, bunnies, mandoragas, pink birds, etc. LEVEL UP!!

[Fenrir_valindri]

Originally Posted by khryoleoz

I'm a little late contributing to this thread, so much of what I say was probably already brought up by others.

It is never too late to state your opinion!

Yeah, well if these are stats derived from the org's measurement, I'll say again that they've been duped concerning Teresa's who hid from them the full extent of her own potential rather well.

I highly doubt they were completely in the dark, the situation with Rosemary indirectly Guarantees that the Organization knew something.

The question I would ask is how substantial the differences are between that A and A+. If it's a small degree and if it is true that it is that single attribute in which Teresa's quality is S class that gives her the edge, then it is on that level that she bests the twins.

I really think Teresa is superior purely off her Yoki "danger-sense" skill.

We should factor in that Alicia "awakens" in order to be that Abyssal threat, so her stats are going to change accordingly. Unfortunately, we don't seem to have any of the Abyssal's stats yet, and can only assume where they "would be" inferior to Priscilla's for now.

Yeah, we can assume that they are inferior to Priscilla, unless you consider that only Isley, Riful, and now the fab 4 know of Priscilla's true strength. So Priscilla's stats could be just as fudged as Teresa's.

In case this is not so obvious, Priscilla wasn't expected to be ideal for this fight by simply being able to completely supress her yoki alone (normal people emit no yoki but can't hope to be a threat to Teresa). Her raw fighting abilities must be on par with Teresa's. They pit her against Teresa under those assumptions, which indicates that they've completely underestimated Teresa, and did so likely because they just hadn't a clue about what a wonderful person Teresa is.

Except there entire plan revolved around taking Teresa by surprise; Irene herself said that Priscilla was ideal for fighting Teresa due to her ability to hide her Yoki.

I've followed your reasoning up to this point. We seem to agree that awakening is the END of yoki release, so having awakened, ABs are fixed at that power level. They can supress it if they choose but in terms of their raw power the AOs can't hope to become better than Priscilla. What Alicia does is "awaken". So she is at her full potential in that state. Soul-linking w/Beth only allows the preservation of her human consciousness and the return to the "unawakened" state. So other than becoming more competent at "awakening" and "sleeping", I can't see how repeating this process will make her stronger over time.

That is an interesting alternative, Alicia may have unintentionally locked herself at current level by doing the "controlled" awakening, but there is also the possibility it just makes her stronger, time will tell.

As far i can tell, these stats are not something to rely too much. They just considerate the most known Claymores, not the remaining from the 47 claymores, or youmas, or humans (even thought probably they will suck at zero! ).

Besides, looking the story of the organization, I'd say they choose positions more according Physical Power than mental Power. Just look the number who Priscilla, Ophelia and later Miata got, even thought they're crazy bitches.

The same goes to the choice of leaders on hunting groups. The lowest number (highest rank) allways become the leader. Unless, of course, the highest ranking is a imature newbie not completely reliable like Priscilla or Miata. So, there's some exceptions to the rule.

So, i think great leadership and willpower would work better as Special Traits than as Stats.

The stats are good for comparing the power levels of Claymore to Claymore.

They do indeed choose depending on power, but they seem to keep good track of people who do display good leadership ability, such as Miria.

So I think that displaying willpower and leadership would help the Organization's "Handlers" make decisions.

Also this is from accessBR from Narutoforum:

Some things I noticed:
* Alicia and Beth are neither Offensive or Defensive! They are 特殊型 (exclusive/unique type)
* Easley, Riful and Luciela were all Offensive.
* Miata is Offensive, Audrey is Defensive, Rachel - obviously - is Offensive.
* Undine has a title \o/\o/\o/\o/\o/ And I believe I am the only one who cares \o/\o/...
People should love Undine more... oh, well: "双剣のウンディーネ" (souken no Undine = "Undine of the Twin Swords" / or "Pair of Swords")

Alicia and Beth are truly unique, for they are neither Offensive or Defensive warriors.
We know that all the Abyssal Ones are Offensive now.
and we get Undine's title!

----------

On a separate note. These are my feelings over the time-skip fab 4.

Miria

Yoki: A
Agility: S
Strength: B
Mental: A
Sensing:B
Leadership: A+

Notes: She has undoubtedly improved much over the years, and her new Phantom ability increase her base speed, rather then being a special technique like it was before. I kept her leadership the same because I am not sure how much better her commanding can get, I am not even sure what an S leadership would be like.

------------------
Deneve

Yoki: B+
Agility: B
Strength: B+
Mental: B
Sensing: B
Leadership: B

Notes: I would think that she would be quite the all rounder now-days, my guess is she spent alot of time improving her strength to adopt Undine's twin-sword style. She also apparently works quite well with the other members of the 7 ghosts, so her teamwork and leadership skills must have taken turn for the better.

--------------------

Helen

Yoki: B
Agility: B
Strength: B+
Mental: B
Sensing:C+
Leadership: C

Notes: Both her strength and agility appear to have taken a turn for the better, and she seems to have passed the "rubbing people the wrong way" phase that kept her leadership down.

------------------------
Clare

Yoki: A
Agility: A
Strength: B
Mental: B+
Sensing: A+
Leadership: C

Notes: As far as Physical stats go, she is close to even with Miria, her Yoki-sensing is probably getting close to Galatea's level and her stats all around seem to have improved greatly since her early Organization days.

I won't comment about the other 3 as we have not really seen them in action post-time skip, so ill withhold judgment on them, although Tabitha seems to have quite the Yoki-sensing score as well.

[khryoleoz]

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

I highly doubt they were completely in the dark, the situation with Rosemary indirectly Guarantees that the Organization knew something.

What the scene shows is that Ordsay (the handler and person closest to her) is dubious about what Teresa explained as what happened to her. That is far from "knowing", and how can they when she's keeping it a secret. Anything they would know would be vague and incomplete.

I really think Teresa is superior purely off her Yoki "danger-sense" skill.

It's enough only when the situation requires the reading of yoki flow. But that's why I deny those stats of Teresa's and privately believe they're higher. I've a vested interest in that being a stubborn Teresa fanatic.

Yeah, we can assume that they are inferior to Priscilla, unless you consider that only Isley, Riful, and now the fab 4 know of Priscilla's true strength. So Priscilla's stats could be just as fudged as Teresa's.

I don't get this one. Was Priscilla keeping her potential a secret from anyone too? If the org knew of her latent potential well, then they'd probably be able to closely estimate her levels as an AB.

Except there entire plan revolved around taking Teresa by surprise; Irene herself said that Priscilla was ideal for fighting Teresa due to her ability to hide her Yoki.

We do know that the plan ended in failure. I'm saying that it was inevitable because of two factors they did not or could not predict: 1) Teresa was much much better than they anticipated even in a surprise attack, 2) Priscilla was not as reliable and actually became an even worse threat.

[Sassarai]

Originally Posted by khryoleoz

What the scene shows is that Ordsay (the handler and person closest to her) is dubious about what Teresa explained as what happened to her. That is far from "knowing", and how can they when she's keeping it a secret. Anything they would know would be vague and incomplete.

Too bad the organization doesnt have these khryoleoz;;

Spoiler: