Windows 8

[Random32]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

If you think that, you're obviously not listening. It's not the touch input that bothers me, it's the fact that the OS is designed for touch input when I'm not going to be using touch input at all.

It's designed with touch in mind, not for touch. The desktop still exists. The only thing that is "designed for touch" that you will regularly encounter is the Start Screen, and if you use it with anything other than the keyboard, you are doing it wrong.

I don't want the Start Screen.

Beyond "it's different" and the fact that it is visually disjoint from the desktop, what is really so bad about the Start Screen?

-You can still hit Windows key, type stuff, and hit enter to launch apps.
-You can also filter by app, setting, or files. And more importantly, the "type and hit enter" functionality is improved for settings and files.
-It comes up right after you log in, saving you having to open it to launch your first app.

I don't want full-screen only apps.

The desktop still exists...

[synaesthetic]

It does, but apps that are specifically coded for the Metro UI will not window. They are full-screen only.

[Alchemist007]

Behind the times sounding rant ahead.

The point at which programs and applications started to be called "apps" with smartphones is when I stopped caring for such things. I still use a 'feature' phone (not 'smart') and if you can call the touchscreen launched 'alarm clock' and 'notepad' as "apps" then by all means. But I haven't used any "Get a Taxi" or "Latest Olympic Medal Count" apps.

To some extent apps make sense for a phone because you don't have that much space and you want that information then and there. But what's the point of bringing that to a desktop OS that has that capability (through a web browser). It just seems like a cashing in on something that's become popular elsewhere (on a smartphone). Hell maybe that's it, or maybe I've literally discovered the single abbreviation that separates me from the next generation and puts me into the "old man who likes old ways and old things" category. Well aside from looking up "latest apps" just now, I literally haven't paid attention to what apps have been coming out since...ever, because I don't use them. It's this mainstream popular tech thing that everyone's doing now that I just haven't cared for or paid any attention to and now it's coming as some big part of a Windows OS and I just don't feel like I should give a single ****. It's also 6:16 am and I've been awake since yesterday.

[Random32]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

It does, but apps that are specifically coded for the Metro UI will not window. They are full-screen only.

Then don't use Metro Apps.

[felix]

Originally Posted by Random32

Then don't use Metro Apps.

What happens when everything becomes a metro app. It's what they want anyway; your desktop is there for compatiblity mode.

If not for backward compatiblity they would probably have shipped with metro-only.

[chikorita157]

Better yet, just install a Start Menu program (like Classic Shell or Start8) and skip the whole new Start Screen all together.

But still, I find the search under the new Start Screen more unintuitive compared to the old start menu or even spotlight. While the new start menu makes it easier to filter things if you have a lot of documents and know what you are searching for, for simple searches, you have to do additional steps just to find what you are looking for. If there a single result, it should at least go to the next filter than have results than staying at the same filter with no result. Better yet, it should have an option to show everything in groups, unfiltered. Not only that, the search more option is not available on the new start screen compared to the Start Menu or even Spotlight. Then you have to go through the trouble of going back to the desktop just to use advanced search.
For instance:

Mac OS X:


Classic Start Menu:


The "New" Start Screen (from my Windows Server 2012 Home Server):

[monster]

Originally Posted by felix

What happens when everything becomes a metro app. It's what they want anyway; your desktop is there for compatiblity mode.

If not for backward compatiblity they would probably have shipped with metro-only.

You keep going back to that point, but it still has little to do with Windows 8.

Microsoft would cease to release a Windows for the desktop PC that can run desktop apps only when they think there are not enough people who need and/or want to use desktop apps.

As for Windows 8, the Windows Store apps are still optional. Don't use it if you don't want to use it, and sign up for their CEIP if you want Microsoft to know that there are people who use desktop apps so that future versions of Windows may still be able to run them.

[aeriolewinters]

there is actually a program that lets you customize the background of the start screen. Which got me thinking of MetroUI's actual potential. If Microsoft gives us full control of aspects of the start screen, then it's an actual replacement for the old Desktop environment for Windows: Which brings me to my point: Metro UI is still young, and I hope they develop it further. even if it costs them to drop the old desktop. I really think that the should look into making something really, really new for home users. much like how different 95 was from 3.11

[Vexx]

I could definitely see my wife liking a screen like the one aeriolewinters displayes (especially if the background can be a slide show). Me not so much. A computer is not an "appliance" to me (nor to a lot of power users).

I am biting some kind of bullet. Just ordered a laptop with it to use as my portable writing/communication tool so we'll see how it flies in daily life.

[aeriolewinters]

A computer is not an "appliance" to me (nor to a lot of power users).

I know, right? but I think it's all in how Microsoft Markets the product, actually. They could use Metro for home Users, and then use the "Pro" line for power Users, Corporate people.

I know that Microsoft has consolidated the corporate/home lines, but I think it's time to put a line between them now. Kinda like in my time where the home users had 9x and the Business/Corporate/Power Users had NT 4.0. , at least aesthetically.

If Microsoft really wants Metro to be in the forefront of their revolution, then they should abandon the old paradigms to create a new experience. The only problem I came across with Windows 8, is that it feels like two differing UI's forced into one OS. If Microsoft wants metro, then they should build a desktop experience that's built around it, WITH NO COMPROMISE.

[Von Himmel]

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

there is actually a program that lets you customize the background of the start screen. Which got me thinking of MetroUI's actual potential. If Microsoft gives us full control of aspects of the start screen, then it's an actual replacement for the old Desktop environment for Windows: Which brings me to my point: Metro UI is still young, and I hope they develop it further. even if it costs them to drop the old desktop. I really think that the should look into making something really, really new for home users. much like how different 95 was from 3.11

Mind telling me what program you used for that?

[aeriolewinters]

Here it is.

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

there is actually a program that lets you customize the background of the start screen. Which got me thinking of MetroUI's actual potential. If Microsoft gives us full control of aspects of the start screen, then it's an actual replacement for the old Desktop environment for Windows: Which brings me to my point: Metro UI is still young, and I hope they develop it further. even if it costs them to drop the old desktop. I really think that the should look into making something really, really new for home users. much like how different 95 was from 3.11

It has potential, but the issues with the Metro start screen go beyond lack of customization. You're looking at an advanced tablet/smartphone interface... on a computer. The screen sizes on computers will generally be larger than on tablets (and of course, phones), and there is no touch interface. While a device like the Surface blurs the lines and might represent what the majority of devices will be like at some point in the future, that's not the case now.

Metro is basically a bunch of widgets, with the rest of the desktop removed. It's useful, but was it the best design decision for a computer? Windows Vista offered desktop widgets, allowing a user to customize their own empty desktop space as they pleased. Mac OS X 10.4 introduced Dashboard, which was basically an overlay of pure widgets that could be called up and dismissed at any time with the press of a button. And of course, there are many bars and docks that can be used to express information.

Metro is an intriguing interface for tablets and smartphones. It makes less sense to me as a computer interface, particularly as a default interface that can't be changed. If Metro were more like OS X's Dashboard, it would have made a lot more sense to me.

I agree though, the shift that Microsoft introduced with Windows 8 is just getting started. There's a lot of potential.

[npal]

Metro has the problem of simple, limited apps sitting on a powerhouse. Having it on a desktop at this time is pointless and inefficient. In its current form, it doesn't offer anything other than a weird start screen.

[aeriolewinters]

Originally Posted by npal

Metro has the problem of simple, limited apps sitting on a powerhouse. Having it on a desktop at this time is pointless and inefficient. At its current form, it doesn't offer anything other than a weird start screen.

That's why I'm imagining something bigger than just the start screen, something that isn't bound by the old desktop paradigms. Windows 8 to me, is trying to pull out compromise, but it fails at either side because it doesn't know what it is. If Microsoft actually tries to do something really different with Metro, rather than making it use the old desktop paradigms of the Taskbar, It'll be a hit.

Imagine that if you see that start screen I posted, and instead think of it as the default desktop interface, now, here's what I'm alluding to: make the application switcher charms bar, function like Windows 7's superbar, and drop the old taskbar altogether. that way, the UI doesn't look like as much compromise. make the Metro apps look more like standard apps, by giving them the ability to resize and minimize. Change the live tiles naming to "Live windows, because basically, when you're in the start screen , its as if you're in the outside of a building looking at different windows that contain your software; basically, reintroduce windows, not "make a compromise"; if they really wanted something that was revolutionary.

It has potential, but the issues with the Metro start screen go beyond lack of customization. You're looking at an advanced tablet/smartphone interface... on a computer.

actually, the metro start screen isn't going to be a problem, if you look at it as more than just an application launcher. as someone who's used Unity, Gnome-shell and Metro, I think that the screenshot I reminds me of the time I used Gnome-Shell, and I like Metro to function like it. I realize that if you make the Start Screen into something that functions alot like the menus of the Gnome-Shell, It has the potential to be something else altogether. I hope that when they make Windows Blue, or the next major version, they should make no compromise; give the people what they want with the freedom to choose which interface they like, either the old desktop interface (Classic Desktop), or the new version of Metro (which would support both older apps and Metro Apps, but different in the way on how they manage the new interface)


As long as Microsoft gives us a choice between old and new, yet still have the same kernel. I'll give Windows Blue a shot, but they should stay away from trying to reach a compromise with both UI's.

[Kudryavka]

As far as I know 8 isn't worth much more than 7 if you don't use it on a touchscreen. Design choice is a consequence of that I think.

[Vexx]

picked up a little notebook from a Newegg sale (a Lenovo) to use a a portable communication and authoring tool. Non-touchscreen. Staring at the Start screen with an expression like the little Olympic gymnast. The setup screens already accomplished the goal of insulting me a few times.

Now lets see if I can make it do what I want rather than just keep herding me into the "apps store".

[creb]

So, I've never been shy about liking Windows 8, but I've also prided myself on not being a blind, ranting, technosnob either, so I do have to say this:

Whatever idiot who probably makes at least three times a year than I do at Microsoft thought it was a good idea to remove Windows DVD maker from Windows 8 should be fired (to some extent, whoever the genius was that removed DVD playback should be fired as well, but at least that was slightly mitigated for early adopters).

One would think when drawing up a list of what you're going to include and exclude in a very obviously made-for-home/consumer market product, this is an area you wouldn't cut corners in.

I occasionally work with high school students, and for the simple things they do, Windows Movie Maker coupled with Windows DVD Maker has been a staple for them putting together project videos, and it took me a long time to realize DVD making has been removed as it never actually occurred to me that it had, and I spent an inordinate amount of time wondering where they had hidden it.

I don't normally regret keeping pace with technology (heck, I never had any issues with Vista, and find the love 7 gets over Vista when they are so similar to be a pretty hilarious statement on tech commentary and fanaticism), but my lab happened to be up for replacing our computers and all our computers ranging from older XP machines to 7 machines were replaced with brand new ones running 8, and while these high school students are very ancillary to my actual job, it's still frustrating, especially since they are from high poverty families and have no computers of their own.

[monster]

First look at Windows 8.1:

[npal]

Originally Posted by monster

First look at Windows 8.1:

Looks interesting enough, interesting ideas, although some options should have already been there, like the customization options. LOL at the Start button showing for 3 seconds in the video with no mention whatsoever. Even MS must realize that adding just a button instead of a full menu, now, after all the negative publicity, is laughable. Either add the thing back or don't add anything at all. No one complained for the lack of a BUTTON. For me, it's wasted space on the taskbar, I hope it can be disabled, since it doesn't do anything worthwhile.

Hopefully they fixed some bugs here and there, too. All in all, I doubt people who didn't get it, will get it now, so I'm not sure what MS hoped to accomplish with this particular update. They could have just added a damn Start Menu, since they took the time to add the button... Not that I care, I didn't really miss the start menu that much and those that do use some 3rd party Start menu software.