F/SN UBW TV - Episode 20 Spoiler Discussion / Poll

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Nope, whether he can trace it or not IS issue. Because he wanted kill Shirou long time before he decided for that gambit.

Well, since he CAN trace it, it CAN'T be the issue.

[Phantom]

I read somewhere that he specifically wanted Rin and Saber to win the War while taking out Caster at the same time. Everything went according to his plan until Rin made a contract with Saber sooner he intended.

[Lorhand]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Whether or not he was able to trace Rule Breaker isn't really the issue here. And in fact Shirou traces it in HF without having ever seen it.

The issue here is, if he traced rule breaker and set himself free, then he wouldn't be able to do the whole gambit thing where he gained Caster's sort-of-trust so he can subsequently kill her and set up Saber as Rin's new servant.

Killing Shirou isn't the only thing on his mind.

I kindly remind you that Shirou sees Rule Breaker in HF, when he and Saber go kill Caster for the first time in the Ryuudou Temple. He warns Saber not to approach Caster, after he succesfully analyzed it, as he can see that it can break contracts. It then appears in the status screen, which basically means that it's already stored inside his Reality Marble.

[Dengar]

Well, I stand corrected on that part then.

Still, I doubt the issue is whether or not he can do it. The question is whether or not he would. Like I said, killing Shirou isn't the only thing on his mind.

[Lorhand]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Well, I stand corrected on that part then.

Still, I doubt the issue is whether or not he can do it. The question is whether or not he would. Like I said, killing Shirou isn't the only thing on his mind.

On that I agree with. I sorely missed the line where he said that he wanted Rin and Saber to make a contract, only later, in episode 18.

[Guido]

Coming to terms with yourself.

Getting grip of reality each passing day.....

Nature forever brutal, and the world relentless.

Archer lived through all deceptions and betrayals due to an ideal without foundation.

But I feel Archer's wrong on Kiritsugu implanting a curse on both of them.

Shiro was able to stand up, because he realized he wished to become an ideal hero of justice.

This I think is the bifurcation point separating Archer and Shiro's past and future selves; Archer forgot where his ideal came from.

Is Archer a shadow of the things that will come to Shiro walking the same path? or the shadow of things that could be if Shiro ever forgets his wish?

Whatever outcomes and possible reprisals and coming deceptions that may and will come Shiro still unwaveringly wants to be a Hero of Justice to see and do things through the end whatever the results may be.

I cannot forget how beautiful the soundtrack played on Unlimted Blade Works was for this episode. A theme of a man in agony, hollow on the inside, and the boy beaten down the ground by the harsh reality. And, yet the boy refuses to stand down but brave Hell itself, because he wished to fulfill his ideal and never losing sight of it.

[Kusa-San]

Pfff just rewatch the episode today, what a great episode. Even after all those years it's still at the top. This confrontation between Shirou and Archer is so well made. It's beautiful. Shirou is, by far, my favorite character in the Fate Franchise. Such a great story and development. He is so far to be a perfect charcater, completely broken but yet true to himself. So much contradiction that represent so well what a human is. And that insert song at the end....

Too bad the Fate Serie went donwhill with this whole mess of a Fate Grand Order which look like to me as a big (bad) fanfiction than anything.