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frivolity · 2014-02-02, 07:56

This concerns a very old series, but it was one that I sort of grew up with many years ago, a little before I started watching anime.

Quote:

JK Rowling has admitted that she made a mistake by pairing off Hermione Granger with Ron Weasley rather than with Harry Potter in her best-selling books.

The author said she brought Hermione and Ron together for “very personal reasons”, not because they were a “credible” couple.

She told Wonderland magazine in a rare interview: "I wrote the Hermione/Ron relationship as a form of wish fulfilment. That's how it was conceived, really.

“For reasons that have very little to do with literature and far more to do with me clinging to the plot as I first imagined it, Hermione ended up with Ron."

An epilogue to Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, the seventh and final book in the best-selling series, reveals that Ron and Hermione marry and have two children, while Harry weds Ron’s younger sister Ginny.

However, Rowling, 48, believes that Ron and Hermione would have ended up needing relationship counselling, The Sunday Times reported.

She said: "I know, I'm sorry, I can hear the rage and fury it might cause some fans, but if I'm absolutely honest, distance has given me perspective on that.

“It was a choice I made for very personal reasons, not for reasons of credibility. Am I breaking people's hearts by saying this? I hope not."

Emma Watson, who played Hermione in the Harry Potter films, said she tended to agree with Rowling, whom she interviewed while guest-editing the new issue of Wonderland.

The 23-year-old actress said: "I think there are fans out there who know that too and who wonder whether Ron would have really been able to make her happy."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/b...K-Rowling.html

Chaos2Frozen · 2014-02-02, 08:02

Okay, before anything else I have to ask--

Quote:

Originally Posted by frivolity

This concerns a very old series, but it was one that I sort of grew up with many years ago, a little before I started watching anime.

Why do you sound like the series was from a previous generation

? Wait, has it really been that long? Am I in fact the weird one for not thinking that

?!

*cough*

Anyway, to be honest nobody strikes me as a good match for Harry imo, I'm fine with "Forever Alone" in this case and just randomly picking Ginny is more terrible than not picking Hermione.

Marcus H. · 2014-02-02, 08:19

Quote:

The 23-year-old actress said: "I think there are fans out there who know that too and who wonder whether Ron would have really been able to make her happy."

It's not like well-written fanfiction wouldn't be the fix some fans need.

Kirarakim · 2014-02-02, 08:49

Yeah I am one of the fans upset at this nonsense.

And yes I think Ron would have made Hermione happy and she would have made him happy.

monster · 2014-02-02, 09:14

I also thought that Hermione and Harry were going to be a couple too. Then she got together with Ron, and after that, it just doesn't feel right to have Hermione leaving Ron for Harry.

So while I do wish that Ron and Hermione were never a couple and that she got together with Harry instead, my personal feelings considering that they did entered into a relationship would agree with the author's decision of letting them continue being a couple.

Would they need counseling? Maybe, but that's not really the focus of the Harry Potter series anyway.

frivolity · 2014-02-02, 09:28

Spoiler for Long and irrelevant rant:

I was very young when I first started reading the HP series. I remember picking up the first book when the third series was recently published, and I absolutely devoured all three books within days. Naturally, like many readers of the books, my mind drifted a little bit towards the ending, as well as which characters would pair up. My first inkling was that Harry and Hermione would pair up, but I didn't think too much about it since I was still a fairly casual reader back then.

Then the 4th book GoF came out a few years later. It was very thick, as thick as the first 3 combined, and once again I read it in less than a week. GoF solidified the idea of H/Hr in my mind, and I was fairly sure that that would be the final pairing. At this point, I started searching online for more information about the HP series to gain further insights into the series as a whole. Wikis weren't widely used back then, so most information was scattered around various fan sites. I stumbled upon a H/Hr forum where many readers gave really deep interpretations on the books, and soon I started posting and debating there. That forum, now defunct, was the first internet forum I ever joined.

One particular theory that I remember reading on that forum was the alchemy theory. I don't remember much of it anymore, but the foundation of the theory was that the HP series was about Harry metaphorically going through the process of alchemy, starting from a base metal and finally transforming into gold. According to the poster who came up with that theory, mercury was a key ingredient and had to fuse with the base metal in the alchemy process. Lo and behold, mercury has a very convenient symbol, HG.

I personally felt that the theory was a little too far-fetched to have been the foundation of the books, but it nevertheless mirrored a common template found in many fantasy stories of its kind, to the point that the author might have been writing something along similar lines, even though it probably wasn't intentional. Of course, the big question at that time was what would happen to Ron?

Then the fifth book came out, and the character of Luna was introduced. And there we had our answer. Luna's initial interactions with Ron were very different from her interactions with every other character. Again, I don't remember much of it anymore, but there was some stuff about her laughing at his jokes when nobody else did, etc. Most of the forum users saw the exact same thing and interpreted it the same way, affectionately calling the pairing Red Moon.

As we now know, everything went caput in books 6 and 7 as the story took a completely different direction than I had envisioned. I read some spoilers online and was completely shocked, to the point that I couldn't even bring myself to read either book. Till today, I still haven't read either book front-to-end, though nowadays it's mostly due to a lack of interest and time. The forum I used to post in was in absolute uproar, with everyone wondering what the heck happened. Had we really misinterpreted the series to such a large extent?

Some forumers started dissecting the content of JKR's subsequent interviews. There was one that was fairly well-known among the HP fandom, in which words such as "militant" and "delusional" were used to describe H/Hr supporters. There was another one where JKR mentioned that Hermione was modelled after herself, and Harry was based on her current husband, while Ron was inspired by a close friend of hers. A number of forumers speculated that perhaps JKR decided to write the final pairings in that manner as a what-if scenario for her own life. Maybe she was thinking about how things would have been different had she pursued a relationship with her other friend instead. Whatever the case, many of the forumers, myself included, felt that it was a waste for JKR to stick too closely to her original plans instead of letting the characters take charge on their own.

That was approximately the point when I lost interest in the HP series and started watching anime, particularly Shakugan no Shana, after a classmate had showed the first anime during a break in class. JKR's interviews still featured quite prominently in the news, such as the one where she announced that Dumbledore was gay

, but I didn't really pay much attention to them.

I came to know about this particular interview after a friend shared it on his Facebook. While noting that only the excerpts of the interview have been released so far, it looks to be that most of the conclusions that the users of that forum had drawn were pretty much on the mark. And even though, once again, it's a very old series that I don't care much for, reading this article made me realise that my journey through the HP series has influenced my thinking in several ways when it comes to interpreting anime.

1. BokuTomo and losing the plot

Stories with great characters seldom go the way that the author wants them to go. Great characters often take on lives of their own, developing in completely unexpected ways and interacting with the plot in a manner that the author had not intended. Faced with such a situation, should the author (a) force the characters to obey the original plan, or (b) let the characters dictate the plot on their own?

BokuTomo, as a character-centric romcom, naturally attracts lots of shipping arguments. However, even I, as a supporter for one particularly pairing, have to admit that it is clear that the author's original intention was probably for Kodaka to end up with another one of the girls.

The eventual ending of BokuTomo though, is still fairly uncertain. Without going into details, this is because there have been a number of indications that the author had run into the same problem of the characters taking on lives of their own and pushing the story in an unintended direction.

At this point, it remains to be seen whether he intends to stick to the original plot or let the characters run the story. There could also be a third option where he sticks to the original ending but rewrites the path towards it.

2. OreImo and the difference between an actual clue and a red herring

Continuing from the previous point, consider a situation where an author runs into the problem of his characters taking control of his story. He can choose to go with option (a) or (b) as described above.

Now let's assume that Reader X predicts ending (a) based on his interpretation of the author's intention. Reader Y, on the other hand, looks at the way that the characters have developed, and predicts ending (b). If the author then goes on to force the story back to his original intention, then which reader had the right interpretation?

This issue came up in OreImo, yet another romcom. The nature of the story was such that the final pairing was practically obvious from the beginning but for a certain snag that prevented the two characters from coming together. Obviously, a romcom requires suspense for the plot to continue, so the story developed the MC's interactions with other possible love interests. Each love interest had several clues that supported their particular ending. Of course, there was only one correct ending.

I won't spoil the final ending here, but I made a post in the OreImo thread about the nature of red herrings, which sparked off quite a long discussion. If a particular red herring would have turned out to be an actual clue provided that the ending, and only the ending, had been different, then is it truly a red herring? A romcom has no plot without suspense, but if the author covered up the true ending to such an extent that other endings are actually plausible up until the point when said ending actually occurred, then surely there is no difference between an actual clue and a supposed red herring. I drew an analogy to a detective story, where a clue has to be one that eliminates every other possible option, such as a dog that did not bark.

3. Writing is often a form of wish-fulfilment

Kuroneko described it very well. Fan-writing is a form of masturbation.

"If they say that my masturbation material is boring, then I'll have to show them masturbation like they've never seen before!"

We're all familiar with the concept of a Mary Sue and Gary Stu - originally used to describe perfect characters that are obvious self-projections. They're all manifestations of wish-fulfilment to some extent, though probably not to the level described by Kuroneko, instead serving to play out the "what-if" scenarios that run through our minds.

4. Pairings

Finally, I realise that at the end of the day, one thing still hasn't changed. I'm still really unlucky when it comes to the pairings I support.

Fireminer · 2014-02-02, 09:59

Haven't read Harry Potter for a long time. What happened, happened. Frankly, I just feel happy for Harry. Who care about who he would end up with?

(But then again, according to my Kanzen Chowa - Perfect Harmony philosophy, Hermi is still the perfect suit for Ron.)

And fic writing is more than wish-fufillment. It's a test whether would you escape the box. No, not the one labelled "Reality". That is the easy one. The real challange is: Yourself. Abandon the cage that you enclosed yourself, refining your inner part together with your characters. What is the meaning of another "What-if" scenario, if the water doesn't purified?

Chaos2Frozen · 2014-02-02, 10:07

Ron and Hermione has the "baka-couple" vibe going for them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by monster

Would they need counseling? Maybe, but that's not really the focus of the Harry Potter series anyway.

Honestly it's a weird thing for her to say imo- What couple doesn't need some form of counseling, sooner or later? If anything Harry has more baggage than either of them.

Xagzan · 2014-02-02, 10:28

Aw, this news doesn't seem to have made fans explode in a new round of shipping wars.

I was kinda looking forward to watching that...

Also, "a very old series?" C'mon, man.

Mad Pierrot · 2014-02-02, 10:54

Funny, when I was a kid I never expected Harry would end with Hermione. I never saw any chemistry between Harry and Hermione. Just expositions and friendship. Their dance scene was one of the most awkward things I've ever seen in my life.

I actually found Hermione X Ron more refreshing due to how the former was waiting for the latter to mature (although the delivery could have been better).

Also, imagine Harry first dating Ginny and then Hermione. What a best friend

james0246 · 2014-02-02, 11:09

Quote:

The 23-year-old actress said: "I think there are fans out there who know that too and who wonder whether Ron would have really been able to make her happy."

So Emma Watson thinks Ron wouldn't have been able to satisfy Hermione's needs, eh?

Is that a slam against Rupert Grint

.

Personally, this isn't an issue of who should be shagging who, the series simply failed at romance in general. The characters were never really written in any particular romantic manner because the series wasn't about romance. Even the 6th book's b-plots were written more as hormonal angst parades rather than personal descriptions of growing love or even attachment (for better or worse, I think the films portrayed the romantic relationships better if only because the various actors had visible chemistry with each other...admittedly, Emma Watson and Daniel Radcliffe still had better chemistry, but that was more because they were simply better actors).

What I'm more interested in is this idea of "wish fulfillment" Rowling mentions. What exactly did she mean by that phrase? Is it simply in regards to filling in the dots toward the epilogue she had written before the series ended (literally forcing the romance simply because the already written epilogue necessitated it), or is there something more personal at work with the characters and the authors life? Whatever the case, counseling is not a bad and I think her remarks are somewhat unnecessarily disparaging.

Also, I'm not sure why she thinks Hermione would have ended up with Harry, or why they would have necessarily been a a better couple. There was also something interesting about the heroine not getting with the hero (let's face it, Ron was clearly the secondary character in the trio, very much the sub-hero), but that still doesn't necessitate a Ron/Hermione ending. Personally, I think Hermione should have gotten together with Luna

. You still get the strong 'opposites attract' vibe while putting her with one of the few characters that is her intellectual equal (or at least closer)...

That being said, I would love an 8th book all about Hermione getting a divorce, and finding herself after suffering through a stifling marriage. A kind of Eat, Pray, Love for the Muggleborn.

edit: CNN has officially picked up the story. LOL.

sa547 · 2014-02-02, 11:17

*facepalm* I thought the author had decided to do something other than Potter-related works? Why she even has to bother with fandom 'shipping?

sunset · 2014-02-02, 11:36

I was rooting for Harry/Cho the whole time, pairing him with Ginny felt like a letdown.

Irenicus · 2014-02-02, 11:56

Any news on how the fanfiction community is taking this? Anyone killed yet?

As for myself, rather than the perfect hero-heroine pairing with Hermione, the ultra awkward Cho tangent, or the random and inexplicable Ginny, I preferred a different girl. I remember reading the fifth book, the angsty, depressing fifth book, and how I instantly took a shine to the bond between Harry and a certain strange, airheaded girl with a sparkling heart. Luna Lovegood was the only one untouched by the oppressive atmosphere hanging over everything else, and at that point I felt as if she was the only one who could rescue Harry from his emotional malaise.

I didn't mind that it ended up being just a "special bond" rather than a romance, though. Romances in Harry Potter were way too angsty, dramatic, teenage-faux-mature -- which, admittedly, is generally how "high school relationships" work in real life.

Kirarakim · 2014-02-02, 12:18

Luna and Harry would have been nice, I also liked Luna and Neville.

That being said I actually though Ron/Hermione was the one romance in Harry Potter that was done well. I liked Ron a lot (in fact I liked him more than Harry) and I think it was nice that the "hero" didn't get the girl.

I don't know it seems weird for an author to backtrack like this, seems to be attention whoring.

Hana · 2014-02-02, 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

Luna and Harry would have been nice, I also liked Luna and Neville.

That being said I actually though Ron/Hermione was the one romance in Harry Potter that was done well. I liked Ron a lot (in fact I liked him more than Harry) and I think it was nice that the "hero" didn't get the girl.

I don't know it seems weird for an author to backtrack like this, seems to be attention whoring.

I loove Harry and Luna together. Not sure why but her absentmindedness(?) drives Harry to some enlightening moments..

On another note, it seems Rowling is saying Hermione and Harry were the better match but that's a bit objective. Ron and Hermione clearly loved each other.. right..

Galaxian · 2014-02-02, 12:52

I had a problem with Harry/Ginny since a friend pointed out to me that Harry end up marrying someone who physically was very similar to his own mother, which made the whole thing seem awkward to me...

That said, from what we know of Lily, her personality was very similar to Hermione's, so we're back to the same problem

Bri · 2014-02-02, 14:05

Ron and Hermione were HP's Han and Leia for me. Can't see any flaw in terms of plot in their relationship.

germanturkey · 2014-02-02, 14:36

words do not express how upset i was that Ron and Hermione ended up together. finally my feelings are vindicated. haha.

KiraYamatoFan · 2014-02-02, 15:23

I remember when I read the books and then got into the movies. I was like "OK, Harry's still young and I've seen characters remaining oblivious to romantic feelings for a while before they found the right person". It was around the time when Order of the Phoenix was published and Prisoner of Azkaban came out as a movie that I became a hardcore Harry/Hermione shipper (Thanks Emma and Daniel). What attracted me to them was the level of loyalty displayed by Hermione towards Harry, through bad times and good times alike. When the last 2 books came out, it was a big letdown in several ways and I felt something was wrong.

Although I should smile to that interview, I'm still puzzled that JKR had the opportunity of calling the shot right back then since she knew her characters miles better than anybody else and yet had to end up recognizing a mistake.

2014-02-02, 08:49	Link #4
Kirarakim Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007	Yeah I am one of the fans upset at this nonsense. And yes I think Ron would have made Hermione happy and she would have made him happy. __________________ Twitter MAL

2014-02-02, 10:54	Link #10
Mad Pierrot Corrupted fool Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: I'm everywhere Age: 33	Funny, when I was a kid I never expected Harry would end with Hermione. I never saw any chemistry between Harry and Hermione. Just expositions and friendship. Their dance scene was one of the most awkward things I've ever seen in my life. I actually found Hermione X Ron more refreshing due to how the former was waiting for the latter to mature (although the delivery could have been better). Also, imagine Harry first dating Ginny and then Hermione. What a best friend Last edited by Mad Pierrot; 2014-02-02 at 11:08.

2014-02-02, 11:17	Link #12
sa547 Senior Member Author Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Philippines Age: 47	facepalm I thought the author had decided to do something other than Potter-related works? Why she even has to bother with fandom 'shipping? __________________

2014-02-02, 12:18	Link #15
Kirarakim Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007	Luna and Harry would have been nice, I also liked Luna and Neville. That being said I actually though Ron/Hermione was the one romance in Harry Potter that was done well. I liked Ron a lot (in fact I liked him more than Harry) and I think it was nice that the "hero" didn't get the girl. I don't know it seems weird for an author to backtrack like this, seems to be attention whoring. __________________ Twitter MAL

2014-02-02, 14:36	Link #19
germanturkey Udon-YAAAAAAAA Join Date: Jan 2008 Age: 35	words do not express how upset i was that Ron and Hermione ended up together. finally my feelings are vindicated. haha. __________________ Aria is the best series EVER. Rewatch Origination with me. Blessed are those who listen to headphones, for they listen to the sound of heaven.

2014-02-02, 09:14	Link #5
monster Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2005	I also thought that Hermione and Harry were going to be a couple too. Then she got together with Ron, and after that, it just doesn't feel right to have Hermione leaving Ron for Harry. So while I do wish that Ron and Hermione were never a couple and that she got together with Harry instead, my personal feelings considering that they did entered into a relationship would agree with the author's decision of letting them continue being a couple. Would they need counseling? Maybe, but that's not really the focus of the Harry Potter series anyway.

2014-02-02, 09:59	Link #7
Fireminer Lumine Passio Author Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Hanoi, Vietnam Age: 18	Haven't read Harry Potter for a long time. What happened, happened. Frankly, I just feel happy for Harry. Who care about who he would end up with? (But then again, according to my Kanzen Chowa - Perfect Harmony philosophy, Hermi is still the perfect suit for Ron.) And fic writing is more than wish-fufillment. It's a test whether would you escape the box. No, not the one labelled "Reality". That is the easy one. The real challange is: Yourself. Abandon the cage that you enclosed yourself, refining your inner part together with your characters. What is the meaning of another "What-if" scenario, if the water doesn't purified?

2014-02-02, 10:28	Link #9
Xagzan Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009	Aw, this news doesn't seem to have made fans explode in a new round of shipping wars. I was kinda looking forward to watching that... Also, "a very old series?" C'mon, man.

2014-02-02, 11:36	Link #13
sunset Twilight Impersonator Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: a zoo	I was rooting for Harry/Cho the whole time, pairing him with Ginny felt like a letdown.

2014-02-02, 11:56	Link #14
Irenicus Le fou, c'est moi Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA Age: 34	Any news on how the fanfiction community is taking this? Anyone killed yet? As for myself, rather than the perfect hero-heroine pairing with Hermione, the ultra awkward Cho tangent, or the random and inexplicable Ginny, I preferred a different girl. I remember reading the fifth book, the angsty, depressing fifth book, and how I instantly took a shine to the bond between Harry and a certain strange, airheaded girl with a sparkling heart. Luna Lovegood was the only one untouched by the oppressive atmosphere hanging over everything else, and at that point I felt as if she was the only one who could rescue Harry from his emotional malaise. I didn't mind that it ended up being just a "special bond" rather than a romance, though. Romances in Harry Potter were way too angsty, dramatic, teenage-faux-mature -- which, admittedly, is generally how "high school relationships" work in real life.

2014-02-02, 12:52	Link #17
Galaxian Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2013	I had a problem with Harry/Ginny since a friend pointed out to me that Harry end up marrying someone who physically was very similar to his own mother, which made the whole thing seem awkward to me... That said, from what we know of Lily, her personality was very similar to Hermione's, so we're back to the same problem

2014-02-02, 14:05	Link #18
Bri Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009	Ron and Hermione were HP's Han and Leia for me. Can't see any flaw in terms of plot in their relationship.

2014-02-02, 15:23	Link #20
KiraYamatoFan Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Montreal, QC, Canada Age: 40	I remember when I read the books and then got into the movies. I was like "OK, Harry's still young and I've seen characters remaining oblivious to romantic feelings for a while before they found the right person". It was around the time when Order of the Phoenix was published and Prisoner of Azkaban came out as a movie that I became a hardcore Harry/Hermione shipper (Thanks Emma and Daniel). What attracted me to them was the level of loyalty displayed by Hermione towards Harry, through bad times and good times alike. When the last 2 books came out, it was a big letdown in several ways and I felt something was wrong. Although I should smile to that interview, I'm still puzzled that JKR had the opportunity of calling the shot right back then since she knew her characters miles better than anybody else and yet had to end up recognizing a mistake.