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View Poll Results: Hyouka - Episode 17 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 36 | 42.35% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 35 | 41.18% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 9 | 10.59% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 2 | 2.35% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 2 | 2.35% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 0 | 0% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 1 | 1.18% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 85. You may not vote on this poll |
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2012-08-12, 23:08 | Link #21 | |||
Orthodox Haruhiist
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Making metal ... for fish
Age: 44
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Houtarou solves problems. Not problems like "what is beauty," as that falls under your classical conundrums of philosophy. Houtarou solves practical problems. Like how to stop the club from being crushed under a surplus of unsold anthologies? Apparently, Houtarou has taken a lesson in the Haruhi Suzumiya School of Negotiation: When in doubt . . . use blackmail. When blackmail don't work. Use more blackmail. And just in case blackmail isn't flashy enough . . . solve it Mythbusters-style and resort to high explosives.
Mind you, we already knew that he has it in him. After all, the President of the Wall Newspaper club had to pay for Oreki's silence about his two-packs-per-day smoking habit with the archived Hyouka anthologies. So, we see that, with a little bit of proper motivation, Houtarou can be every bit as manipulative as Irisu. Quite unlike Chitanda, whom Irisu tells to stop using her advice . . . since Chitanda doesn't get intrigue, finesse, or double-talk. When confronted with a problem, she merely screams "SEMPER FI!" "I'm curious!" and charges in with guns blazing. Chitanda gives Irisu a bit of a shock when she informs her that she already figured that out. The whole arc is one of dashed expectations and titanic inferiority complexes. We see Satoshi looking absolutely crushed when he overhears Houtarou not only uncover the identity of the thief, but then goes and co-opts the thief's plans to service the Classics Club's needs (he gets back at Houtarou in the end, though.) Joining him in the misery club is Mayaka, who has it reiterated that, compared to some of her fellow Manga Club mates, her talents are somewhere in the sub-basement of the sub-basement (by her nemesis, who was similarly crushed by the writer of A Corpse By Evening,) and "Juumoji" himself, thoroughly enraged at his master artist friend for crushing his expectations utterly and completely. So Satoshi and Mayaka get much character development in this arc. The closeness of their friendship is, likewise, shown in surprising detail. Satoshi, by himself, gets the most character development up to this point. He starts out the series as Houtarou's excessively fabulous pal, who then evolves into the archetypal Shakespearean Fool, who is now seemingly headed toward the other famous Shakespearean archetype, the tragic character. Chitanda gets some character exploration, insofar as we see that it's just plain tiring for her to think in double-speak. The one character who actually doesn't develop all that much is Houtarou. We already know that, once he puts his mind to something, he just has to do the magic bang pull, and the solution falls out (he seems to have had the whole mystery solved one or two episodes ago. In this episode, we just get to find out why he didn't want to involve Chitanda.) We know that, when something gets in the way of him giving all glory to the HYPNOTOAD so he can get back to his accustomed resting state, he's not above doing whatever it takes to make that something (up to, and including, the HYPNOTOAD herself, per the "Silk Spider Society" fabrication all the way back at the start of the series,) stop being an obstacle. So, I rate this episode 9 blown up manuscripts out of 10. Quote:
It follows that Tomoe cannot possibly be that close to Houtarou in age. If she were, people (in-show) would've undoubtedly made the connection between the elder Oreki and her brother by now. Quote:
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Last edited by Daniel E.; 2012-08-13 at 00:28. |
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2012-08-12, 23:56 | Link #22 |
Part-time misanthrope
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Fred found great buddies in joeboygo and GalacticPulsar to hate on characters together. Surely an entertaining activity. Meanwhile excuse me while the rest of us will move on.
As for the episode, I can relate with Mayaka and Satoshi a lot. The conclusion to the whole arc somehow felt fairly weak but it works. |
2012-08-13, 00:21 | Link #23 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Age: 29
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The mysteries in Hyouka are entertaining but so pointless. Yes I get that it is anime but lol Tanabe went through all that trouble setting up the Juumoji mystery just so he could pass on a message to the Student Council President which failed in the end. Tanabe could have just man up and talked to Kugayama himself. But no, he didn't have the balls and went with a roundabout way of trying to get Kugayama back into drawing manga. And also it's pretty clear that even had he read the script from Anjou, Kugayama would have had no intentions of getting back into manga so Tanabe was pretty much trying to salvage a lost cause.
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The thing that is kind of unbelievable, though, is how Oreki takes such leaps of logic and draws all these conclusions. Tomoe having better deductive abilities than Oreki? That would be OP. like dragonball z OP. Last edited by GalacticPulsar; 2012-08-13 at 11:52. |
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2012-08-13, 00:45 | Link #24 |
Seishu's Ace
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kobe, Japan
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Absolutely stellar end to a terrific arc. I knew Hyouka was capable of capturing the art of high school time wasting and creating atmosphere, but I didn't know it had this kind of genius in it.
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2012-08-13, 00:47 | Link #25 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
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I think this was the best episode of Hyouka thus far. I liked the parallelism between Mayaka's skill compared to Kouchi's skill and Kouchi's skill compared to Anjou's (the other ones were also pretty well crafted). It really drove home the sense of inferiority prevalent in this arc.
Last edited by Ringil; 2012-08-13 at 00:58. |
2012-08-13, 01:01 | Link #28 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Australia
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I didn't think they would tie all those character sub plots together, but they pulled it off with the theme of expectations. Particularly between Satoshi and Mayaka and that scene where she held his jacket. It really underscored their connection. It was terrific arc story arc, lots of character development for the the main cast, although it was perhaps a bit long.
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2012-08-13, 01:37 | Link #29 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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2012-08-13, 02:14 | Link #30 |
The Chaotic Dreamer
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: In a cruel yet beautiful world
Age: 32
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Great conclusion to this arc.
I think the most I got from out of all of this was really enjoying Satoshi and Mayaka's development/insight into their personalities. I felt ridiculously bad for Satoshi. And being an artist myself, Mayaka's (and Kouchi's) feelings about their art and how it poorly compared to others' literally almost made me cry. I know what that feels like all too well, and it hit a lot closer to home than I expected it to. When Hyouka started, I wasn't extremely fond of Satoshi and Mayaka (more so Mayaka, I found her very annoying/pointless at first), but this arc brilliantly showcased how they're both much more complex than that underneath the surface and I like them both much more now (especially Mayaka). I like how they made it so you could catch some of the cues behind the predetermined scheming during the manuscript combustion scene early on. I was well aware of how awkward Tanabe seemed (his movements, the direction he was facing in, the timing of events, etc). Kudos to KyoAni for that.
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2012-08-13, 02:37 | Link #31 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
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I just realized that KyoAni did this anime, and that they did Clannad and Kanon and Air too lol
Question, who's Anjou? I liked this episode overall. I don't really get how Tanabe thought all that effort and deception and tricks would get his point across. But i do understand his emotions. Loved Satoshi in this. I like how both his character and Mayaka's are developing. The only thing I didn't really understand was Mayaka's though. Can someone explain or clarify her story a bit? |
2012-08-13, 02:46 | Link #32 |
Crax
Author
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: MY
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Very good episode.
Nothing much I need to say that's not already stated already, except that - while the Light Novel itself probably hasn't updated itself that far - I foresee an eventual showdown between Houtarou and his sister. It is inevitable. Tomoe is even 'covered up' in the anime because she was way too brilliant. Also, I can see that Houtarou and his sister's current personalities and actions were developed from the difference between their talents. Their past didn't even need to be sad or explosive; just portray them holding in their opinions and feelings for each other's sake; Tomoe travelling all around so she doesn't pressure her brother and Houtarou doesn't want to ponder about a problem because her sister already knows the answer. And then Satoshi and Mayaka (and even Chitanda) will realize that Houtarou himself feels the exact same feelings as them (to the point he desires a 'Gray' life) and possibly grow closer and more forgiving as a result. EDIT: Mentioned it before, but the creators for this anime are absolute genius; it actually outshines the Light Novel itself.
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2012-08-13, 02:52 | Link #33 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Age: 29
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Does Chitanda have any insecurities herself? We know Oreki, Satoshi and Mayaka all do but what about Chitanda? I'm still waiting for some Chitanda character development. Anytime now....... |
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2012-08-13, 02:53 | Link #34 | |
Irregular Hunter
Join Date: Oct 2010
Age: 37
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I give 9/10 because I think it's a little gloomy and I feel like the "expectation" theme does not totally concluded yet.
Other than that, it sure is a great episode. Like Yushi, the fact that even Houtarou-lazily-browsing-website is relevant sure took me by surprise. I also totally forgot that in A.B.C. Murder, there were this timetable that was relevant to the case. Once again, I cannot exactly praise him for doing that blackmail, I'll not say it's a bad thing either. At least his excuse this time was more reasonable, I think. But that was certainly a clever way to sold Hyouka and nicely explain why he went so far to keep it a secret from Eru. Anyone else actually feel like you're sharing the same feeling as the characters in the epilogue? I felt a mixture of happy for the job well done and exhausted. I do not mean in a bad way. This arc is thoroughly entertaining, but I felt like I was on the high tension for so long that I'm glad it's finally over. Really, I want to see them party now because I'm in the mood myself. Finally, I want to go back to the whole premise of this show again. "The bitter-sweetness of growing up." A lot of characters saw a wall they could not just overcome in this arc. It seems to me like the author try to convey a message about how harsh the world is. Not in a sense that the world is corrupted, but in the sense that it simply is not fair, so deal with it. I can started to see why the original is a general novel as oppose to a Light Novel. I too want to see "The Approximated Distance of the Two" animated, but I think we'll get short story to wrap up this show. Quote:
Mayaka story is that she think a masterpiece is something that born that way. Ayako said she disagree. To prove her point, Mayaka want Ayako to read "A Corpse by Evening" (Mazui translation). Along the way she found "Body Talk" which she think is also good, but still a level below A Corse by Even. She also commented that her own work is way below both. So when Ayako explained that she cannot bring herself to finish A Corpse by Evening, Mayaka understand her frustration. It is also similar to Satoshi's situation as well That wasn't so short, was it? :P Last edited by CrowKenobi; 2012-08-13 at 21:19. Reason: Please edit your post and refrain from double posting... |
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2012-08-13, 03:42 | Link #35 | |
Yuuki Aoi
Join Date: Jul 2004
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I have to say, much as I like Houtarou (Nakamura Yuuichi), Eru (Satou Satomi), and Satoshi (Sakaguchi Daisuke), that Mayaka is my favorite character here. Kayano Ai is really a voice actress: both a wonderful voice and a convincing actress. And I am also happy to see Satoshi and Mayaka's ship start heading for port. If that is indeed what I saw.
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2012-08-13, 03:44 | Link #36 |
Anime Snark
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 41
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Watching the episode... ironic thoughts started to plague my mind.
"The manuscript's not lost! If he would just draw it out, it would be a greater masterpiece!" Because it warped into this... "The novel's are done! If they would just animate the rest of it, it would be a masterpiece as well!" I speak of course... the FMP!-series. They have the author on dial-direct, they have abundant novel material to animate, but... the wait continues. I wonder if there was any lampshading in the episode. The episode became so much more depressing when I realised the parallel... Mibble...
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2012-08-13, 04:19 | Link #38 |
Senior Member
Author
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That was certainly a fantastic ending to a pretty epic arc.
The way it tied everything together here, by bringing all the subplots together to resolve the main conflicts of the arc, and to even tie it up with a consistent theme running through all the subplots - It truly was a thing of narrative beauty to behold. There's not much I can add to what other viewers have already wrote about this on this thread, except to add one key point. And that point is that I think that Irisu and Chitanda's subplot isn't as separate from all of this as what may appear. I think that the general theme of "There's no accounting for pure talent" also applies to Irisu and Chitanda's subplot, and in their cases it applies to talent at persuasion. But how Irisu and Chitanda's subplot ties into the overarching theme is a little less clear here because Irisu genuinely is good at persuasion. Even so, Irisu is good at it due to hard work and technique - Irisu has to be somewhat manipulative, or at least sly, in order to effectively persuade others. But Chitanda can persuade based simply on her natural personality (and her hypno eyes ). In other words, Chitanda is good at persuasion due to pure talent; due to who she is moreso than the particulars of what she does or says. And, sometimes, with an abundance of talent, the conventional wisdom of how to do things goes out the window. Irisu is very good at persuading others, but she's not as naturally talented at it as Chitanda is. Irisu recognizes that, and hence she realizes that her persuasion techniques actually holds back someone like Chitanda. It's like telling a great pro sports player that he has to strictly follow a particular system of play when his unleashed creativity at the game is actually more effective than any system could be. Chitanda's talent at persuasion is like that - With her, she should just go straightforward and straight-ahead and follow her heart, while Irisu must make do with hard work and technique. And so, again, we see how all the subplots in this anime ties into the theme of how there's no accounting for pure talent. But a corollary that follows from that is that it's a real shame when such pure talent is wasted and not put to good use. Tanabe's frustration with the Student Council President is palpable, and who can blame him? The emotional poignancy of it all was very compelling without ever seeming melodramatic. However, I was a little bit dissatisfied with how Mayaka's subplot was resolved, putting aside the overarching tie-in that I already discussed. Like another viewer or two said on this thread, I would have liked the bullying itself to have been addressed/resolved in some fashion, so it was slightly disappointing to see it not be. Still, Mayaka herself came off very well here, as did the entire main cast. 9/10 for Episode 17 of Hyouka.
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2012-08-13, 05:57 | Link #39 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
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10/10
That part with Ayako and Mayaka was kinda heartbreaking when I watched the streaming yesterday. Nevertheless the part with Tanabe and Kugayama was something. That was a great way to reveal everything. I really loved how Oreki was struck when Tanabe said that Kugayama did that manga just for fun and that he hasn't had a passion for it when he is gifted with such skill. Really brings back the point in Irisu's words which were really something to think off for Oreki. Really great episode. |
2012-08-13, 06:08 | Link #40 | |
Not an expert on things
Join Date: Jun 2007
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What a great ending to a fantastic arc. Hyouka always has stellar endings to its arcs. The theme of this one is especially nice since it's related to the movie arc. Poor Satoshi. I hope Mayaka and he can have their shining moments by the end of the show Edit: Also, it feels like they put a lot of effort into the celebrating at the end . |
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