(L) Yahari Ore no Seishun Love Come wa Machigatteiru.

[lijenstina]

Originally Posted by HereticMagus

What interests me further is that while this change doubles up as a revelation, I can't say if this is accentuated by her recent pitfalls of ego and self worth, or if she was always this insecure inside?

In earlier volumes there are some glimpses like Yukino being confused how to have cocoa from a self serving machine in Vol. 2 or bravely walking into a wall due to her mad map reading skills in Vol 3. The first one is quite similar to Vol. 7 and when she pulled on Hachiman's sleeve confused/scared what to order at the ramen place.

While being small and humorous they give an insight on her insecurities.

[Starlightz]

Originally Posted by lijenstina

In earlier volumes there are some glimpses like Yukino being confused how to have cocoa from a self serving machine in Vol. 2 or bravely walking into a wall due to her mad map reading skills in Vol 3. The first one is quite similar to Vol. 7 and when she pulled on Hachiman's sleeve confused/scared what to order at the ramen place.

While being small and humorous they give an insight on her insecurities.

Wouldn't be so sure about that, though :P Sounds more like a sheltered-rich-kid image than being insecure.

[Tormenk]

Going by the t/l of the last chapter (and then some), seems like the spoilers thus far are all true. Certain details were omitted from how the spoilers depicted events of course.

Spoiler for Spoilers for chapter 9:

Yui's promised date was fulfilled on Valentine's day by getting both Yukino and Hikki to go with her to the aquarium, with neither knowing about the other beforehand. They have fun and in between let each other know a bit more what's on their minds. Yukino manages to talk abit about herself when she's alone with Hikki. The date ends after a ferris wheel ride which leads into Yui's request. Hikki's refusal reads like genuine part 2 but seems like Yui either expected his answer or baited him into it. Yukino gets imbued enough to rebutt not to decide matters on her behalf, as well as asking them to hear her request out.

There is of course more but prattling on seems stupid when the anime is going to cover everything in another day's time or so.I hope feel devotes enough time to the last two chapters to make the moments in the last episode count. Yukino's admission really felt powerful.

[Cinnamon]

Originally Posted by Tormenk

Going by the t/l of the last chapter (and then some), seems like the spoilers thus far are all true. Certain details were omitted from how the spoilers depicted events of course.

Spoiler for Spoilers for chapter 9:

Yui's promised date was fulfilled on Valentine's day by getting both Yukino and Hikki to go with her to the aquarium, with neither knowing about the other beforehand. They have fun and in between let each other know a bit more what's on their minds. Yukino manages to talk abit about herself when she's alone with Hikki. The date ends after a ferris wheel ride which leads into Yui's request. Hikki's refusal reads like genuine part 2 but seems like Yui either expected his answer or baited him into it. Yukino gets imbued enough to rebutt not to decide matters on her behalf, as well as asking them to hear her request out.

There is of course more but prattling on seems stupid when the anime is going to cover everything in another day's time or so.I hope feel devotes enough time to the last two chapters to make the moments in the last episode count. Yukino's admission really felt powerful.

Where did you find the t/l? Trying to resist checking the blogs for summaries and spoilers till the mailman delivers it :P Though I'm already prepared for the cliffhanger based on a rough summary I read.

[Tormenk]

Originally Posted by Cinnamon

Where did you find the t/l? Trying to resist checking the blogs for summaries and spoilers till the mailman delivers it :P Though I'm already prepared for the cliffhanger based on a rough summary I read.

Via a thread on 4Chan today. Unfortunately the t/l was done in Chinese. Somone did post scans of the entire last chapter yesterday so perhaps you can try that if you're interested.

[lijenstina]

Originally Posted by Starlightz

Wouldn't be so sure about that, though :P Sounds more like a sheltered-rich-kid image than being insecure.

Point taken, but that is about the source of the insecurity. The underlying emotion is the same. One of the reasons why she is insecure is that she was a sheltered-rich-kid. She doesn't know how to deal with people or doing something on her own because she doesn't have the experience among other things. She like everyone else needs time to get to know people, to understand them, to overcome the past that shaped her just like Hachiman and Yui. Not the mention the her major problem comes from the family (Yukimom).

Of course, the first time when Yukino truly faltered during her confrontation with Kawasaki in Vol.2 is a perfect representation of that.

For instance, I suspect that one of the reasons on the emotional level why that BRAINSTORMING! Valentine event was done is that neither Yukino Yui and Hachiman did really experienced it, so even a lie could fill up the void.

Anyway, the wait is killing me. This post sounds much less interesting now compared to what is going to happen tommorow

[Excorsism]

Originally Posted by HereticMagus

I find this downward spiral somewhat endearing. It's not often that you see a light novel or manga willing to step away from optimistic, ideal development to show how knowing your weakness can at times be nothing more than impetus for a detour than an incentive for rising from the ashes as a better person. Anime so often show people miraculously coming to terms with their weakness and working to rectify them after a Hannibal lecture or something to that effect, but real life doesn't always work like that. Not saying current Yukino is weak or dependent as you (and Haruno) implies, but certainly, when she lets her mask down, what we see is not the unwavering ice queen we thought we knew all along but someone who can't find self esteem within them and is forced to fish for it externally.

What interests me further is that while this change doubles up as a revelation, I can't say if this is accentuated by her recent pitfalls of ego and self worth, or if she was always this insecure inside?

Judging by all the spoilers about Yukino, her development was purely positive in the first half (1-6 where 6 was the peak) of the series and then mostly negative in the second half (7-11 where 11 will be the trough).

With all this talk about how Yukino is copying other people's behavior, is immensely dependent, and has no self, it does make me think about Yukino during the Cultural Festival. I don't think she exhibited any of those qualities at all. Rather, she was pretty much her own person, perhaps even genuine. That said, with how volume 11 ends, it does make me a bit excited that we might get that firm and sharp Yukino back again, at least I hope so. Her admitting her problem and Hachiman saying that her problem is something she needs to solve herself are good steps in the right direction, though.

Yukino's still my favorite character, but I can't say I've been too pleased at how Watari's been developing her (being the sole vehicle for drama and whatnot). Of course, that's not assuming Watari makes the payoff worth the wait.

[NosageDaze]

A bit off-topic here but: If 8man chooses yukinon in the end, I imagine their son would be like the MC of Gekkou, where the MC is sharp-tongued, prefers to be left alone, and likes to observe people's social interactions...

[Cinnamon]

Originally Posted by NosageDaze

A bit off-topic here but: If 8man chooses yukinon in the end, I imagine their son would be like the MC of Gekkou, where the MC is sharp-tongued, prefers to be left alone, and likes to observe people's social interactions...

You probably meant Tsurumi Rumi :P

[lijenstina]

Originally Posted by Excorsism

Judging by all the spoilers about Yukino, her development was purely positive in the first half (1-6 where 6 was the peak) of the series and then mostly negative in the second half (7-11 where 11 will be the trough).

With all this talk about how Yukino is copying other people's behavior, is immensely dependent, and has no self, it does make me think about Yukino during the Cultural Festival. I don't think she exhibited any of those qualities at all. Rather, she was pretty much her own person, perhaps even genuine. That said, with how volume 11 ends, it does make me a bit excited that we might get that firm and sharp Yukino back again, at least I hope so. Yukino's still my favorite character, but I can't say I've been too pleased at how Watari's been developing her (being the sole vehicle for drama and whatnot). Of course, that's not assuming Watari makes the payoff worth the wait.

I do miss the sharp tongued Yukino too, it needs more banter definitely, however for me in the first half of the series the continuous stream of positive changes stopped around the end of volume 3 - when she choose to be silent about the accident. From then on it's like one step forward - two steps back.

I do agree about the ending of 6th (finally placing to rest one big issue between them) not so much about the whole volume. Nevertheless, because it ends on a mostly good note it's positive after all.

[SomeChineseGuy]

Well that may be the whole point for Yukino: find the balance.

[RioFoxx]

Originally Posted by Excorsism

Judging by all the spoilers about Yukino, her development was purely positive in the first half (1-6 where 6 was the peak) of the series and then mostly negative in the second half (7-11 where 11 will be the trough).

With all this talk about how Yukino is copying other people's behavior, is immensely dependent, and has no self, it does make me think about Yukino during the Cultural Festival. I don't think she exhibited any of those qualities at all. Rather, she was pretty much her own person, perhaps even genuine. That said, with how volume 11 ends, it does make me a bit excited that we might get that firm and sharp Yukino back again, at least I hope so. Her admitting her problem and Hachiman saying that her problem is something she needs to solve herself are good steps in the right direction, though.

Yukino's still my favorite character, but I can't say I've been too pleased at how Watari's been developing her (being the sole vehicle for drama and whatnot). Of course, that's not assuming Watari makes the payoff worth the wait.

I disagree that being her own person at Vol 6 makes her genuine. Rather, that might be far from her -current- genuine state. The idea of genuine is like an echo of an earlier conversation, an interaction without fascade (intentional or not), whereas the Yukino we see currently is the Yukino that truly exists. -However- I would not be at all surprised if by the time everything is said and done, Volume 6 Yukino is very close to genuine Yukinoshita. Watari Wataru loves to tie things together so far, and seeing how genuine is not something static, a genuine state is something that can change with the development of a character.

The idea is that Yukinoshita Yukino, above all else, has a large disparity in her different sides being shown to different people, likely which fit her comfort level. Thus, above all else, the process of her becoming genuine is likely combining those together and accepting/improving both the highs and the lows of Yukinoshita Yukino.

At least that's how I see it before volume 11. (I really don't have enough volume 11 spoilers to know, sadly. Someone help me out there? xD)

That said, I still like Yukino the best, and to be honest, she's way less dramatic than a lot of people I know. People who try to be genuine in life are usually termed 'dramatic' anyway because they don't bottle and hide all their emotions. Which, ironically, is something Yukinoshita Yukino seemed to do. Until much more recently. Though that was likely a trust issue.

[Excorsism]

Originally Posted by RioFoxx

The idea is that Yukinoshita Yukino, above all else, has a large disparity in her different sides being shown to different people, likely which fit her comfort level. Thus, above all else, the process of her becoming genuine is likely combining those together and accepting/improving both the highs and the lows of Yukinoshita Yukino.

Well, I wouldn't restrict the use of genuine to what Hachiman wants out of it. I feel that volume 6 was the biggest glimpse we had into the real, "strong" (Hachiman's idea of it) Yukino (that is, not bogged down by any family or traumatic issues, standing up to Haruno, etc) which kind of ties back into what Hiratsuka-sensei says about her being honest and correct (yes, I'm going to keep harping about this unless Watari completely forgot about it).

Either way, I'm crossing my fingers Watari stops eviscerating Yukino's character and starts giving her some gains (though I guess there are some in volume 11) already in volume 12 and maybe a 13th volume.

...It's a weird feeling seeing genuine get thrown out all the time now, . It doesn't feel so genuine anymore, if you know what I mean.

In other news, it doesn't look like the BD/DVD volume takes on a different POV which is kind of disappointing.

[lijenstina]

That is why I really like Hachiman thoughts from Vol.9 concerning Rumi.

Spoiler for Volume 9:

It was fine if you did things yourself, but that’s because you had to.
By living your life without being a bother to anyone, for the very first time, you’d be able to ask for things from people. Once you’re able to live by yourself, for the very first time, you’d be able to walk alongside someone.
Because you lived by yourself, because you could do things by yourself, that you’d be able to do so with someone else.

Notice the duality there. Still think it is Watari's spoiler for the end.

And Yukino is mostly honest and correct being a speech from Vol.5 which is about the differences between other's impressions and the real person.

[RioFoxx]

Originally Posted by lijenstina

That is why I really like Hachiman thoughts from Vol.9 concerning Rumi.

Spoiler for Volume 9:

It was fine if you did things yourself, but that’s because you had to.
By living your life without being a bother to anyone, for the very first time, you’d be able to ask for things from people. Once you’re able to live by yourself, for the very first time, you’d be able to walk alongside someone.
Because you lived by yourself, because you could do things by yourself, that you’d be able to do so with someone else.

Notice the duality there. Still think it is Watari's spoiler for the end.

And Yukino is mostly honest and correct being a speech from Vol.5 which is about the differences between other's impressions and the real person.

Oooh! That was in the book? Oooh! I had completely thought something similar when I read some of the spoilers, but I found no hints. And oooh, it's in volume 9? Ooooh! That's awesome. It could be distraction, but that's awesome.

[lijenstina]

Originally Posted by RioFoxx

Oooh! That was in the book? Oooh! I had completely thought something similar when I read some of the spoilers, but I found no hints. And oooh, it's in volume 9? Ooooh! That's awesome. It could be distraction, but that's awesome.

No need for sarcasm. If you don't like my scribbling ignore it.

[RioFoxx]

Originally Posted by lijenstina

No need for sarcasm. If you don't like my scribbling ignore it.

You know I didn't mean it like that! But seriously, thank you for that passage. I actually believe the same thing, and finding it in-book is awesome.

[ShirayukiX]

Originally Posted by Excorsism

Either way, I'm crossing my fingers Watari stops eviscerating Yukino's character and starts giving her some gains (though I guess there are some in volume 11) already in volume 12 and maybe a 13th volume.

...It's a weird feeling seeing genuine get thrown out all the time now, . It doesn't feel so genuine anymore, if you know what I mean.

I wouldn't really say he's eviscerating Yukino. I think it's more like he's showing us different sides to her character, and how she isn't as perfect as we make her out to be. She isn't this "perfect being" that can solve anything that's thrown at her. I think it's just meant to show her as a person that just needs a little nudge to help her solve her current family issues.

It could help me understand what your saying if you enlighten me a bit on what you mean. Then I could possibly see what your saying.

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by ShirayukiX

I wouldn't really say he's eviscerating Yukino. I think it's more like he's showing us different sides to her character, and how she isn't as perfect as we make her out to be. She isn't this "perfect being" that can solve anything that's thrown at her. I think it's just meant to show her as a person that just needs a little nudge to help her solve her current family issues.

Yukino not being the perfect being she was introduced as in volume 1 hasn't been a thing since volume 5 or 6 where her personal issues began to become apparent, and especially so in volumes 8 and 9 in which the drama that took place was pretty much her own doing due to her inability to deal with her own problems.

This is volume 11, and Watari said Oregairu will be ending soon, and even though Yukino has changed considerably since the beginning, she hasn't actually even begun to deal with her own issues.
She was supposed to (or, at least, she intended to) compete with Hachiman on whom helped the most people, and as of now, Hachiman has basically done the job almost by himself.
This begs the question, how can Yukino help others when she cannot even begin with her own case? Ever since volume 8 she became a ball of personal issues.

If this was a football match Yukino would be losing 10-0, and the match is at min 35 of the second half of the match.

I honestly don't see how Watari can make Yukino (in a satisfying way) get over her issues AND become someone who can help others in the ... one or two volumes this LN has got left.

[Izumo]

So tomorrow we're going to have the last part of volume 11 right?