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Old 2016-11-19, 11:52   Link #4581
MeoTwister5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tormenk View Post
I'm surprised Qrow hasn't drunk himself to death given what he has to deal with when talking to Raven. Or how Tai even managed to marry her.

This is the first time a 'relic' is brought up in the story right?
It was mentioned by Salem during the tentacle Grimm thing in episode 3.

More importantly this is the first mention of the Spring maiden and how no one knows where she is...
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Old 2016-11-19, 11:58   Link #4582
Harry Dresden
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Chapter 4
"Remnant's a diverse society" seems to only matter when writers need to deflect queerbait accusations. Otherwise apparently making trans-phobic jokes is FIIINE as is ableism in writing.

Also apparantly "Taiyang implies he is only going to be there for Yang when she is useful and reliable" and "Taiyang bullies Yang into using a prosthetic to become useful" is good writing.

At least I totally called Raven's role and Ozpin twist.

Last edited by Harry Dresden; 2016-11-19 at 13:59.
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Old 2016-11-19, 20:13   Link #4583
Lord C
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Dresden View Post
Chapter 4
"Remnant's a diverse society" seems to only matter when writers need to deflect queerbait accusations. Otherwise apparently making trans-phobic jokes is FIIINE as is ableism in writing.

Also apparantly "Taiyang implies he is only going to be there for Yang when she is useful and reliable" and "Taiyang bullies Yang into using a prosthetic to become useful" is good writing.

At least I totally called Raven's role and Ozpin twist.
You could just put ''#triggered'' in your signature or something, you know? Gee, I come here to check the discussion and this is the first post I see. Then I get worried about where the writing went in this episode and check the previous page and ''no, wait''. It's just a single user that keeps being paranoid about everything in the show and insulting every action of each character.
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Old 2016-11-19, 20:25   Link #4584
DMurphy
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If we're going to criticise Dresden, and I have plenty of criticisms of how they act in this thread, can we not make fun of a genuine psychological principle in the bargain, Lord C. Doing so is the behavior of a child, not a grown adult, and it should be beneath the dignity of everybody here.
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Old 2016-11-19, 22:02   Link #4585
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I wasn't exactly trying to make fun, but I'll try to do as you say then, Murphy
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Old 2016-11-20, 02:42   Link #4586
The 48th Ronin
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I really don't get the accusations of ableism, especially when the story's setting is a place that has a technology to cure almost every physical disabilities (they can make androids, FFS).

We might as well accuse almost every sci-fi show of being ableist. Heck, in The Empire Strikes Back, Luke got his hands cut by his dad, only to be fixed a few minutes later.
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Old 2016-11-20, 04:48   Link #4587
Harry Dresden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The 48th Ronin View Post
I really don't get the accusations of ableism, especially when the story's setting is a place that has a technology to cure almost every physical disabilities (they can make androids, FFS).

We might as well accuse almost every sci-fi show of being ableist. Heck, in The Empire Strikes Back, Luke got his hands cut by his dad, only to be fixed a few minutes later.
The problem is not necessarily the arm itself. The arm is just plot convenience.

The problem is HOW Taiyang's character was handled this episode. The whole kitchen scene was just uncomfortable and OOC for all involved.
  • Taiyang making that horrible joke about Yang's arm? Yang and everyone laughing at it?
  • The narrative literally comparing Yang's PTSD to Port's Fear of MICE?
  • The seeming indication that PTSD can somehow be "gotten over" or "cured"?
  • Taiyang implying that Yang should reach her best before doing anything?
  • Taiyang implying that he will "be there" for Yang only once she starts being reliable and herself again? I mean seriously, WHAT?
  • The whole outside scene where Taiyang is literally portrayed as someone who cares about Ruby more but can't go because he needs to "look after some things"?
  • The implication in the end that Yang is literally guilt-tripped into using the arm?

Yet again just like previous episode I can only pray to the gods the show KNOWS what it wrote and addresses it. None of that was okay. I guess there's still hope that arm won't stick or that Yang will not accept arm simply because "her dad needs to go save Ruby" - because that literally means that Yang, yet again, is only "getting better" for others and not for herself. This outlines that Yang can only be accepted or treated well by those around her if she is useful, reliable and "back to normal". That she is not allowed to be hurt, that she is not entitled to her own sorrow or pain or mental trauma.
Even if we ignore the creepy ableism I outlined above, this is yet again "Yang needing to get better because others don't care for her when she is useless and treat her as a burden". Which is the OPPOSITE of what Yang's character needs.
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Old 2016-11-20, 05:15   Link #4588
xrick
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Given how I think you overdramatized Blake's chapter, I'll probably reach the same conclusion with this one, when I get to watch it...next week. Man, this sucks
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Old 2016-11-20, 07:09   Link #4589
The 48th Ronin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Dresden View Post
[*]Taiyang making that horrible joke about Yang's arm? Yang and everyone laughing at it?
Not all jokes are funny to everyone. Taiyang really is at the wrong here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Dresden View Post
[*]The narrative literally comparing Yang's PTSD to Port's Fear of MICE?
Unless it's a giant mice Grimm, yes, it's a bad comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Dresden View Post
[*]The seeming indication that PTSD can somehow be "gotten over" or "cured"?
This is a very complicated case. There's no cure for PTSD. But people have different means of dealing with it.

Applying it to the episode, we must not forget what personality Yang had, originally. Being a feisty girl, Yang might use "payback" as a means to suppress her trauma.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Dresden View Post
[*]The implication in the end that Yang is literally guilt-tripped into using the arm?
Was she? Or did the fire in her heart stared to reignite itself? We can only find out soon.
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Old 2016-11-20, 11:42   Link #4590
Eragon
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That entire conversation was awkward as fuck. One episode Yang seems to have given up because of losing her arm. Then this episode she has a nightmare about her feeling helpless when she lost her arm. And then she laughs at Taiyang joking about her losing her arm along with some of her sanity.

Wtf are they trying to tell about Yang's character? Such a mess.
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Old 2016-11-20, 11:46   Link #4591
xrick
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Hmm... Saying it like that may actually confirm a bit of Harry Dresden's worries... And that's not good
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Old 2016-11-20, 12:04   Link #4592
Dengar
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Humor is a coping mechanism. The perpetually triggered seem to not be able to make note of this.

Besides, didn't I already tell you people that fictional characters may sometimes have 'issues' but they don't get PTSD. *rolls eyes*


How about that Qrow, huh? Following that girl around from the shadows. What a creeper.
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Old 2016-11-20, 12:08   Link #4593
Harry Dresden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eragon View Post
That entire conversation was awkward as fuck. One episode Yang seems to have given up because of losing her arm. Then this episode she has a nightmare about her feeling helpless when she lost her arm. And then she laughs at Taiyang joking about her losing her arm along with some of her sanity.

Wtf are they trying to tell about Yang's character? Such a mess.
I get if Yang tried to play it off. Its how she always handled her problems(to the point that Ruby now took on the same method)

What really unsettles me is how OOC the whole scene was for everyone involed.
Yang should not have even come to the situation of that laugh scene. Taiyang should have never made such a "joke". Or done that pep talk which pretty much was "get back to normal and then I'll help you".

The joke itself was horrifying in context of Volume3 and Emerald basically gas-lighting Yang into doubting her own sanity("Maybe I am crazy").

It just felt weird and confusing and very poorly written.

Like I legit would expect scene like that from some fanfic that hates Taiyang - characters fanfic writers hate usually end up acting like OOC assholes.

This episode literally clashes with everything good and positive about Taiyang and I am not even sure narrative realizes that?
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Old 2016-11-20, 12:23   Link #4594
xrick
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Dengar, characters can have PTSD, it's just that normally it isn't taken too deep, for plot convenience.
At the end of the day, it'll simply seem like a transient trauma that the plot takes care of giving a solution to.
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Old 2016-11-20, 12:39   Link #4595
DMurphy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Humor is a coping mechanism. The perpetually triggered seem to not be able to make note of this.

Besides, didn't I already tell you people that fictional characters may sometimes have 'issues' but they don't get PTSD. *rolls eyes*
With all due respect, I think you lost any reasonable grant to talk about PTSD, both real and fictional, when you decided to use a psychological term related to PTSD as a snide little passive-aggressive bludgeoning tool against anyone who disagrees with you. Doubly so because your whole argument earlier was that you were so deeply concerned about real people with PTSD that you couldn't countenance fictional portrayals of it. That was clearly a lie.

Like I said to Lord C: It's the behavior of a child, not an adult, to take a word with an actual and important meaning and bandy it about as mockery. Even accounting for what we've already seen from you, I would have still thought it'd be beneath your dignity.

I would like to kindly suggest you stay quiet on the subject from now on -- I certainly won't bother treating anything you say about it as being worth acknowledging.


Anyway, Dengar's semi-regular hysterics aside:

Honestly, everyone's talking about the joke Taiyang made, but that seemed more like just a slip there -- and Yang clearly wasn't bothered by it.

I know able people like to imagine that disabled people are constantly wracked with horror and grief for the rest of their lives, but that's just not true. Eventually, there does come a point where it can be joked about, where it's normalised to a degree. I thought Yang behaved pretty realistically there.

What bothered me more was Taiyang's little "When you stop moping ..." remark. Because that wasn't a slip, and that was frankly just kind of insulting to her -- she's not moping, she's recovering from a pretty horrendous experience.

Also, this episode seems to clarify that Qrow's Semblance isn't turning into a crow, it's controlling and/or seeing through the eyes of crows.

It looks like Raven leads those bandits that Nora and Ren are familiar with, as well, and if I'm reading the implications of Qrow's pointed "There's someone strong with you [...] If you know where the Spring Maiden is ..." then Spring is also part of those bandits.

Also, yeah, wow, okay, Oscar is definitely either Ozpin or somehow hosting his consciousness. I don't think anybody is altogether surprised by that one.
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Old 2016-11-20, 12:50   Link #4596
MrTerrorist
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So Raven has a Survival of the Fittest belief due to being raised in a bandit tribe.
No wonder both Brawen siblings are messed up in their own ways (Qrow being a drunk and Raven caring more about the mission rather than her family.)
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Old 2016-11-20, 13:01   Link #4597
Tenzen12
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Taiyang behavior is pretty fine imho. First of all he is HERE and is willing help Yang as long as she is willing to be helped. And yeah she is moping. Sure she went through horrible experience, but no-one can recovery by pitying their self. Her recovery started in moment when she decided to do something. Until that moment all Taiyang could do is provide her where she would feel safe and welcomed.

Sure he probably could be more forceful and help her whether she wish it or not, but ... That way Harry would instantly condemned him. Oh he did anyway. I guess Taiyang would be terrible person whatever he would do...
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Old 2016-11-20, 13:04   Link #4598
bakato
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMurphy View Post
What bothered me more was Taiyang's little "When you stop moping ..." remark. Because that wasn't a slip, and that was frankly just kind of insulting to her -- she's not moping, she's recovering from a pretty horrendous experience.
She was moping. Victims like her need time to process their emotions and make an effort to move forward. She's spent 6 months at home doing nothing. A fancy new arm has her name on it and she's wasn't even going to put it on. She admitted she didn't try it not because she wasn't ready, but because she was scared. She accepted her one-armed self as her normal. This and her laughing at Taiyang's seemingly inconsiderate joker is proof she's already passed acceptance, but now she didn't even want to try to be what she could be. If Taiyang hadn't said anything, Yang was never going to put on the arm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post
So Raven has a Survival of the Fittest belief due to bring raised in a bandit tribe.
No wonder both Brawen siblings are messed up in their own ways (Qrow being a drunk and Raven caring more about the mission rather than her family.)
I'm pretty sure that's just his quirk.

Speaking about the relic, I just realized now there's more to Qrow following RNJR. Ruby has silver eyes and Qrow would have deduced that Salem would have heard about this from Cinder. He's using RNJR as bait.
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Old 2016-11-20, 13:36   Link #4599
Raviel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eragon View Post
That entire conversation was awkward as fuck. One episode Yang seems to have given up because of losing her arm. Then this episode she has a nightmare about her feeling helpless when she lost her arm. And then she laughs at Taiyang joking about her losing her arm along with some of her sanity.

Wtf are they trying to tell about Yang's character? Such a mess.
I think the answer is relatively simple, RT rushed through Yang's issues.

It's rather jarring because they were building up Yang's problem quite well and then gave her this very sudden improvement in the span of half an episode.

I feel like RT tossed a coin and opted to put more detail into Qrow and Raven's conversation.

They knew they wouldn't have enough time to provide the exposition that they did while keeping Yang's recovery within a"believable" time frame.
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Old 2016-11-20, 13:52   Link #4600
Eragon
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Dengar, the only one triggered here is you. Its pretty amusing when those who cry "SJW, tumblerinas, etc etc. complain about everything" are the ones doing most of the complaining.

"Why aren't you criticizing the show in the manner that I like?"
"Why are you trying to talk about things that I don't like talking about?"

At 32 years of age I would expect some maturity than crying #triggered on people who are trying to look at the show from some other perspective.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, @Raviel

Yeah, that seems to be the reason. I mean they could still keep her nightmares and her insecurities in her own ability to defend herself after this episode and just cover-up this episodes interaction as her shoving her problems under the rug. Otherwise its just feels hamfisted.
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