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[JokerD]

Originally Posted by kyp275

why the captain can't override the door, I'll never know.

Originally Posted by sneaker

So a terrorist can't force him to open the door at gun point, I assume. They say there is an emergency-code in case the cockpit pilot becomes unconscious but he has some time to deny the entry by switching a button. And of course such a code only works if you remember it.

Who, What, Why: How are cockpit doors locked?

[kyp275]

Originally Posted by sneaker

So a terrorist can't force him to open the door at gun point, I assume. They say there is an emergency-code in case the cockpit pilot becomes unconscious but he has some time to deny the entry by switching a button. And of course such a code only works if you remember it.

still doesn't make sense. after 9/11 the whole gun point thing becomes moot, threatening to kill someone if they don't let you kill them later along with everyone else doesn't work very well.

[sneaker]

Not all hijackings are suicide attacks - often they just want the plane to fly to a different destination.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...aft_hijackings

[Mentar]

That was no accident. The evidence points to the Copilot consciously crashing the plane

- Main Pilot leaves the cockpit for a toilet break
- Copilot locks and seals the door
- Copilot sets the autopilot to descent (no accident possible, 360-degree-turn of a knob required)
- Main Pilot tries to return, but can't open the door
- Voice recorder indicates calm breathing in total silence in the cockpit, and attempts of the pilot to entre the cockpit

No other explanation than conscious crashing of the plane seems plausible. Police is investigating.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Anyway, is anyone planning to attend the ceremony on Sunday?

I may. Though I am quite dissed at the wear-black-wear-white BS being spread around.

FFS just wear formal. He won't want the whole country to be overrun by chickenshits does he?

We go?

Originally Posted by Mentar

That was no accident. The evidence points to the Copilot consciously crashing the plane

- Main Pilot leaves the cockpit for a toilet break
- Copilot locks and seals the door
- Copilot sets the autopilot to descent (no accident possible, 360-degree-turn of a knob required)
- Main Pilot tries to return, but can't open the door
- Voice recorder indicates calm breathing in total silence in the cockpit, and attempts of the pilot to entre the cockpit

No other explanation than conscious crashing of the plane seems plausible. Police is investigating.

Supernatural possession? It is said that he gave very direct and one-liner replies when talking to the captain. Or maybe he already had a plan.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

I may. Though I am quite dissed at the wear-black-wear-white BS being spread around.

FFS just wear formal. He won't want the whole country to be overrun by chickenshits does he?

We go?

Not sure...family may plan to watch from TV (better view they say). I have no black white formal BTW...closest is grey


(I do have my black white yukata though although that's obviously for summer...)

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

Supernatural possession? It is said that he gave very direct and one-liner replies when talking to the captain. Or maybe he already had a plan.

After the Captain left the cockpit, the copilot didn't speak at all. Total silence except for regular breathing sounds.

[SeijiSensei]

The BBC article also clears up an item of confusion from last night's newscasts. Protocols in the US require a flight attendant to sit in the cabin when the pilot or co-pilot leaves, but German protocols do not.

As Mentar notes, it requires making an entry into the plane's flight computer in order to have it stay on course but descend. It's hard to see how the events fit any other explanation than murder/suicide. If the pilot had a heart attack, the plane would have behaved differently.

I'm still amazed that we rely on "black boxes" to store the voice and status data. What good is a black box if it's memory chip is lost or destroyed, or the plane is sitting on the bottom of the ocean? Passengers can connect to the Internet from their seats these days, so why aren't planes routinely uploading the voice and flight data to servers on the ground throughout the flight?

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Not sure...family may plan to watch from TV (better view they say). I have no black white formal BTW...closest is grey


(I do have my black white yukata though although that's obviously for summer...)

I am wearing my white shirt and black pants, with a black hankerchief as an armband.

[Mentar]

"And who watches the watchmen?"

I'm afraid there is very little we can do. If a pilot decides to go rogue and crash the plane, letting a flight attendant sit down won't change much.

Horrible stuff.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Mentar

"And who watches the watchmen?"

I'm afraid there is very little we can do. If a pilot decides to go rogue and crash the plane, letting a flight attendant sit down won't change much.

Horrible stuff.

Follow the US Sky Marshal programme?

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

The BBC article also clears up an item of confusion from last night's newscasts. Protocols in the US require a flight attendant to sit in the cabin when the pilot or co-pilot leaves, but German protocols do not.

As Mentar notes, it requires making an entry into the plane's flight computer in order to have it stay on course but descend. It's hard to see how the events fit any other explanation than murder/suicide. If the pilot had a heart attack, the plane would have behaved differently.

I'm still amazed that we rely on "black boxes" to store the voice and status data. What good is a black box if it's memory chip is lost or destroyed, or the plane is sitting on the bottom of the ocean? Passengers can connect to the Internet from their seats these days, so why aren't planes routinely uploading the voice and flight data to servers on the ground throughout the flight?

It has to beam to a satellite or a ground station before putting the data through the internet. And there are places around the world which have intermittent connections - not everyone has got great bandwidth.

And a heavy storm can easily cut the connection, possibly at a critical juncture. A black box is still a better bet.

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by Mentar

I'm afraid there is very little we can do. If a pilot decides to go rogue and crash the plane, letting a flight attendant sit down won't change much.

She might have been able to unlock the door.

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

Follow the US Sky Marshal programme?

Except that those don't sit in the cockpit. And even if they did - any physically normal male can incapacitate another one in a surprise attack at close quarters. This problem won't really be solved, ever.

[SaintessHeart]

Here is the report from Reuters :

Robin said the conversation between the two pilots before the captain left the cockpit started normally but that Lubitz's replies became "laconic" as they started readying what would have been the normal descent to the airport of Duesseldorf.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

The BBC article also clears up an item of confusion from last night's newscasts. Protocols in the US require a flight attendant to sit in the cabin when the pilot or co-pilot leaves, but German protocols do not.

As Mentar notes, it requires making an entry into the plane's flight computer in order to have it stay on course but descend. It's hard to see how the events fit any other explanation than murder/suicide. If the pilot had a heart attack, the plane would have behaved differently.

I'm still amazed that we rely on "black boxes" to store the voice and status data. What good is a black box if it's memory chip is lost or destroyed, or the plane is sitting on the bottom of the ocean? Passengers can connect to the Internet from their seats these days, so why aren't planes routinely uploading the voice and flight data to servers on the ground throughout the flight?

the tech is already there and there is a companay that does real time updates on the plane. But it would cost the airline money to subscribe to this service.

Originally Posted by Mentar

Except that those don't sit in the cockpit. And even if they did - any physically normal male can incapacitate another one in a surprise attack at close quarters. This problem won't really be solved, ever.

put videos with real time feeds of the cockpit to the control towers and allow the control towers to override the pilot and activate the auto pilot for a emergency landing at the nearest airport.

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

the tech is already there and there is a companay that does real time updates on the plane. But it would cost the airline money to subscribe to this service.

I don't see it would need to be a subscription service. Let the FAA mandate the uploading technology and maintain the servers themselves. Compared to the billions spent on air-traffic-control systems, data uploading and archiving technologies would be a drop in the bucket.

put videos with real time feeds of the cockpit to the control towers and allow the control towers to override the pilot and activate the auto pilot for a emergency landing at the nearest airport.

The pilots' union has opposed the introduction of cockpit cameras. The National Transportation Safety Board made this recommendation over a decade ago, but it was shelved in the face of the pilots' opposition and the airlines' indifference:

Pilots don’t see the disappearance of Flight 370 as a reason to embrace cameras. They cite two reasons for their opposition: Video surveillance will almost certainly be misinterpreted or get into the wrong hands, and it can adversely affect how they do their jobs. “What a camera can capture can be so easily misunderstood and misconstrued,” says Doug Moss, a former test pilot and accident investigator.

http://www.wired.com/2014/07/malaysi...ockpit-camera/

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

I don't see it would need to be a subscription service. Let the FAA mandate the uploading technology and maintain the servers themselves. Compared to the billions spent on air-traffic-control systems, data uploading and archiving technologies would be a drop in the bucket.


The pilots' union has opposed the introduction of cockpit cameras. The National Transportation Safety Board made this recommendation over a decade ago, but it was shelved in the face of the pilots' opposition and the airlines' indifference:

http://www.wired.com/2014/07/malaysi...ockpit-camera/

That is interesting, though what would the cost actually be like; and the hidden costs?

Anything that involves tax dollars are sensitive social issues.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Mentar

"And who watches the watchmen?"

I'm afraid there is very little we can do. If a pilot decides to go rogue and crash the plane, letting a flight attendant sit down won't change much.

Horrible stuff.

Pilots are pilots precisely because they are given the responsibility of safeguarding the well-being of others. Thus you are right that there is nothing that can stop a rogue pilot, much like we can't stop a rogue hairdresser or rogue surgeon. Those who were given responsibility, by definition could abuse it.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Mentar

"And who watches the watchmen?"

I'm afraid there is very little we can do. If a pilot decides to go rogue and crash the plane, letting a flight attendant sit down won't change much.

Horrible stuff.

i am afraid the only real answer is Skynet.

Pretty much all commercial planes are flown by Auto Pilots anyway. We just need to created a Master Computer System to fly and manage the planes.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

the tech is already there and there is a companay that does real time updates on the plane. But it would cost the airline money to subscribe to this service.



put videos with real time feeds of the cockpit to the control towers and allow the control towers to override the pilot and activate the auto pilot for a emergency landing at the nearest airport.

So if someone goes crazy enough to want to crash a plane, he won't even have to be in it?