(L) Lovely Complex (TV Series!)

[Miki7]

I saw lovely complex and the thing that I liked a lot is that Risa was rejected twice, but she tries and fight with all her strength and she seduces Otani being herself...it's a good anime

[Vexx]

I'm reading the english adaptation of the manga. It actually makes me appreciate how well the anime tracked the manga in spirit.

I like rewatching this series just to listen to the dialog and all that Kansai-ben --- not to mention the Fiery Demon Nobu

[MikiMata]

Does anyone know when this is finally being released in America? I keep hearing that it is licensed, and can't find the fansubs anymore as a result. But there doesn't seem to be a release date or details anywhere.

I think the anime is a decent adaptation. But the manga is one of my all-time favorites, and has a magic that didn't make the transition completely. I agree with people who've said the television show's pace was rushed. The anime left some stuff out that I would have liked to see. Also, I prefer Otani's character design in the manga; the anime makes him look more "doll-like" or something. I don't know how to describe it, but the design just seemed a bit off. In fact, the animation could have been better quality in general.

Still, I definitely plan on buying this when it comes out in the U.S., and hope it does so soon.

[Vexx]

It is licensed by Viz (manga and live-action movie) ... its actually not clear to me that the anime is really licensed but Viz probably has that too ... but its been sitting in limbo as far as further news releases.

yeah, there's a pack of us that would love to own it ... at least in a sub-title only format. Personally I'm real skeptical of how any english dub would handle the Kansai-ben aspects.

[typhonsentra]

I just finished the anime and there was one thing I was never 100% on:

Was Risa supposed to be either ugly or just plain looking? It was hard to tell.

Also, is their an epilogue that tells us what happens after graduation in the manga?

[ZippyDSM]

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

I just finished the anime and there was one thing I was never 100% on:

Was Risa supposed to be either ugly or just plain looking? It was hard to tell.

Also, is their an epilogue that tells us what happens after graduation in the manga?

Plain looking I would say.

[Vexx]

Neither, she was just tall. She would *make* ugly faces and wasn't overly girly. She didn't tend to over-apply makeup either.

[xia]

Originally Posted by Vexx

yeah, there's a pack of us that would love to own it ... at least in a sub-title only format. Personally I'm real skeptical of how any english dub would handle the Kansai-ben aspects.

As well as Azumanga I presume.
Didnt they give Osake a southern accent?

I may be wrong.

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

I just finished the anime and there was one thing I was never 100% on:

Was Risa supposed to be either ugly or just plain looking? It was hard to tell.

Also, is their an epilogue that tells us what happens after graduation in the manga?

Didnt most of her male classmates think she was pretty? Its been a while and my memory might be foggy, but I thought she was popular with te guys in her class. Although I dont remember her getting to many confessions.

[Nosauz]

just out of curiousity because the conecepts about dubs is quite foreign to me, what is the appeal of dubs? The translation of the script itself is a loss of a layer of flavor, but when you change the voices this greatly affects the original intent of the anime. So what is the appeal of dubs? This was an issue that I have heard from many american movie watchers that Crouching Tiger hidden dragon, "was nothing more that chinese people speaking jiberish on wires kicking"

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Nosauz

just out of curiousity because the conecepts about dubs is quite foreign to me, what is the appeal of dubs? The translation of the script itself is a loss of a layer of flavor, but when you change the voices this greatly affects the original intent of the anime. So what is the appeal of dubs? This was an issue that I have heard from many american movie watchers that Crouching Tiger hidden dragon, "was nothing more that chinese people speaking jiberish on wires kicking"

You were talking to ethno-challenged idiots. You should stop talking to such people However, "many american movie watchers" may be an overstatement -- the movie was fairly well received in the US though it was subtitled.

There are several reasons dubs are popular. Some good, some bad.

1) Subtitle reading while listening to the emotional delivery and following the action is an acquired art.
2) Some people simply have trouble reading the subtitles because of astigmatism or other vision issues. Some people even get nauseated.
3) Some people are watching while knitting or some other hobby - nearly impossible with subtitle-only to handle.

And then there's the:
4) I'm too lazy to care about the culture and it is alienating to hear "furrin talk". Bring on the boobs and action.
5) Other nonsense I'm too lazy to list...

Dubs have a purpose.... many Americans will simply not buy foreign works unless there is an English sound track. Its provincialism but so it goes...

Personally, I'm fine with subtitles but my wife does prefer dubs because she has astigmatism and she often knits while watching tv. So we do a little of both.

As for Osaka in Azu-Da, yes they gave her a Houston, TX accent. Frankly, a New Jersey or Bronx accent would have made more sense given the comedic snappy wit Kansai-ben speakers are known for. But the culture of Houston is basically "lets make money" and I can only guess they thought that connected to Kansai and its business practicality.

[ZippyDSM]

Originally Posted by Vexx

You were talking to ethno-challenged idiots. You should stop talking to such people However, "many american movie watchers" may be an overstatement -- the movie was fairly well received in the US though it was subtitled.

There are several reasons dubs are popular. Some good, some bad.

1) Subtitle reading while listening to the emotional delivery and following the action is an acquired art.
2) Some people simply have trouble reading the subtitles because of astigmatism or other vision issues. Some people even get nauseated.
3) Some people are watching while knitting or some other hobby - nearly impossible with subtitle-only to handle.

And then there's the:
4) I'm too lazy to care about the culture and it is alienating to hear "furrin talk". Bring on the boobs and action.
5) Other nonsense I'm too lazy to list...

Dubs have a purpose.... many Americans will simply not buy foreign works unless there is an English sound track. Its provincialism but so it goes...

Personally, I'm fine with subtitles but my wife does prefer dubs because she has astigmatism and she often knits while watching tv. So we do a little of both.

As for Osaka in Azu-Da, yes they gave her a Houston, TX accent. Frankly, a New Jersey or Bronx accent would have made more sense given the comedic snappy wit Kansai-ben speakers are known for. But the culture of Houston is basically "lets make money" and I can only guess they thought that connected to Kansai and its business practicality.

I have discovered its more a issue with the care factor of the individual, some simply brush off strange concepts while others want harder to handle concepts.

Low concept stuff is not debase its simply easy to pick up and understand alot of fiction is pablitized or watered down in order to sell better.

High concept stuff tends to be deeper and harder to grasp for the common media goer.
-----------------------
I always thought a Canadian variant would work better for a Osaka accent using TX accent is simply unacceptable for any character that's not fronting as a cowboy or Texan... .

[Vexx]

I certainly agree that dubbing Osaka as a Texan was an utter Fail and basically made her look spacy *and* stupid to 'average viewers' (and I'm from Texas originally and can still muster a Texas accent -- Abbott and Costello would have failed from day one with a southern accent and their patter ... or think of Rodney Dangerfield with a Texas drawl - utter fail there as well. Texans excel at Mark Twain or Will Rogers humor delivery style).

But this is Lov*Com thread so to bring it back on topic ..... it would be a really horrible mistake to give these fast talking snappy characters a southern accent of any kind. I guess it depends on *which* Canadian accent you have in mind (I'm mostly familiar with B.C. and Calgary accents and they seem a bit slow-paced for Manzai (boke/tsukkomi) humor...

[Nosauz]

honestly no accent is required, as long as the quip remarks and sharp and witty and that dynamic is carried over then there really isn't need for the accent. Plus the localization of kansai ben is just difficult in it self, almost like how would you dub a movie that feature both cantonese and mandarin? Dialects are unique to their regions because of special events and meanings develop on certain words, and certain sounds which naturaly make it hard to localize.

[ZippyDSM]

Originally Posted by Vexx

I certainly agree that dubbing Osaka as a Texan was an utter Fail and basically made her look spacy *and* stupid to 'average viewers' (and I'm from Texas originally and can still muster a Texas accent -- Abbott and Costello would have failed from day one with a southern accent and their patter ... or think of Rodney Dangerfield with a Texas drawl - utter fail there as well. Texans excel at Mark Twain or Will Rogers humor delivery style).

But this is Lov*Com thread so to bring it back on topic ..... it would be a really horrible mistake to give these fast talking snappy characters a southern accent of any kind. I guess it depends on *which* Canadian accent you have in mind (I'm mostly familiar with B.C. and Calgary accents and they seem a bit slow-paced for Manzai (boke/tsukkomi) humor...

My brain is in mush mode, but its more the pronunciations they do on key words or sayings that if one has a fuzzy brain like mine you can mute the words and hear tones and sounds.

I would not be a thick accent but something that will play will with the the delicious tones of the Osaka accent.

Ah Nosauz makes a good point.

Originally Posted by Nosauz

honestly no accent is required, as long as the quip remarks and sharp and witty and that dynamic is carried over then there really isn't need for the accent. Plus the localization of kansai ben is just difficult in it self, almost like how would you dub a movie that feature both cantonese and mandarin? Dialects are unique to their regions because of special events and meanings develop on certain words, and certain sounds which naturaly make it hard to localize.

True true its much more a speaking style than a localized accent.

Accents can help but frankly they are over used and under utilized. Meaning used to much and to poorly.

Accents may be applicable but ti would be better if you just go with a speaking style first.

[Vexx]

There are a few scenes where people specifically want to hear their "kansai" dialect. I suppose that could be easily reworked as the, for example, the girls who glom on Otani on their trip were made to sound... o I don't know, like Quebec accented young ladies? Other than those moments - yeah, neutral accents would be okay.

[Nosauz]

though I rarely and I mean rarely, like maybe once every couple of months, watch dubs, I generally feel that the major issue isn't with the accents and what not, but more with the vocals in general. Dubs heavily remind me of flat gaming dialogue that just feels out of place and some what robotic. I mean I understand that the voice actors aren't as prevalent but why are pixar movies/ disney productions so seamless, where the voices match the character emotions, whereas dubs just come off as souless?

[ZippyDSM]

Originally Posted by Nosauz

though I rarely and I mean rarely, like maybe once every couple of months, watch dubs, I generally feel that the major issue isn't with the accents and what not, but more with the vocals in general. Dubs heavily remind me of flat gaming dialogue that just feels out of place and some what robotic. I mean I understand that the voice actors aren't as prevalent but why are pixar movies/ disney productions so seamless, where the voices match the character emotions, whereas dubs just come off as souless?

Errr ya I know what you mean though for me the vocals have gotten better over the years the trouble is its how they handle them locking speaking styles,limiting Americanization and translating stuff down..I think its more the direction of the production than raw talent or even casting persay.

Like when hollywood alters perfectly good fiction for the mainstream sometimes they just manhandle it because they have no clue how to be subtle with such things.

Really if they want me to buy into anime again they'll either have to release high qaulity subs with minimized watering down(even prechance 2 or 3 transition subtitle tracks ) or offer dubbing in the unamericanized version....both of which not likely...

Vexx
I would not be a thick
It would not be a thick

uuhgggg I is not awake ><

[Vexx]

This has been discussed in many threads... but basically its budget, budget, budget.

Limited budget means you're not going to get the "A" list actors Disney and Pixar can get. You'll notice its the same small pool of voice actors for every anime mostly because they've cut themselves a job niche and they're dependable quantities to the licensing studio.

On the other hand, I cut the english voice actors a LOT of slack because they work under fairly unfair conditions compared to japanese voice actors. -- each actor records separately without anyone else to push against, often with very little paid time to understand the role and how it fits in with the other characters. Its really difficult for actors to work without other actors. They get little or no training compared to japanese voice actors. They get very few retakes. If you ever get a chance to watch clips of the japanese voice recording process versus the english voice recording, you'll start to appreciate the difference.

Anime dubbing into english is just a cut-rate operation - buyers would have to be willing to pay a third to a half more for improved dubs.

It looks totally unlikely that anyone will ever license Lov*Com even though the manga seems to be doing fairly well so this will remain rather moot.

[ZippyDSM]

Originally Posted by Vexx

This has been discussed in many threads... but basically its budget, budget, budget.

Limited budget means you're not going to get the "A" list actors Disney and Pixar can get. You'll notice its the same small pool of voice actors for every anime mostly because they've cut themselves a job niche and they're dependable quantities to the licensing studio.

Now I cut the english voice actors slack because they work under fairly unfair conditions compared to japanese voice actors. -- each actor records separately without anyone else to push against, often with very little paid time to understand the role and how it fits in with the other characters. Its really difficult for actors to work without other actors. They get little or no training compared to japanese voice actors. They get very few retakes.

Anime dubbing into english is just a cut-rate operation - buyers would have to be willing to pay a third to a half more for improved dubs.

Meh I think its far more quality of project direction and the directors...

edit
let me expand on that

Poor or simplistic dialog, a focus on the wrong things in final scripting I can handle bad voice work just not a mixture of it and bad dialog, bad scripting and sacking of the original.... everything....

[Vexx]

aye, every aspect of the project that needs a dollar to do right gets about 50 cents....

Its why I can count dubs that I find tolerable on just my fingers.... even the Disney Miyazaki spectacles come up short at times...

Lov*Com is one of my favorite rom-coms and I keep watching for someone to pick it up for R1 but alas, apparently it lacks enough "boobs and bombs" or "moe"....