2009-07-20, 06:38 | Link #2221 |
blinded by blood
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Keroko's spot on. If Nanoha's "nonlethal" Divine Busters followed physics, they wouldn't be able to blow through walls, bulkheads, metal plate, thick concrete and remain nonlethal. After all, a human body is quite a bit squishier than building materials.
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2009-07-20, 07:10 | Link #2222 | ||||
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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Or do you think real scientific theories are taken from convenient sources that state things? If a real scientist is told that the only big weakness of his theory is that he doesn't have previously published literature supporting him, he's going to say "Great! My Nobel Prize is near!", not admit defeat. Heck, even if literature is against him if he's sure of his observations he's going to fight back, and win his Nobel Prize. Quote:
By the same token though, you have just insisted that what happened was a violation of physics. Since booklet quotes are your acceptable source, please find the quote or booklet page which explicitly says that what happened on the Cradle is a violation of physics. Remember, you can't analyze, use logic, or use observations (your own suggestion). You must use a booklet or concede Or how about an easier one. Find a quote or booklet page that explicitly says that Type IV drones were present in Ep25 fighting redshirts. I'm pretty sure there are none, but who knows you might suprise me... Quote:
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2009-07-20, 07:14 | Link #2223 |
blinded by blood
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Pedantry gets you nowhere. ^^;
The issue is it's a fictional story, it isn't real, and it most certainly isn't science. There is no reason whatsoever to treat it as science. It makes things harder on us as fic writers to consider it science--it is easier to plausibly portray magic than it is to satisfy the diehard tech nerds with real-world scientific explanation! What I use in place of trying to explain magic with science is rather simple. Don't explain it, lest you wind up looking rather foolish. Just concentrate on kicking ass with it. MGLN has never been an overly technical or plausible series--it is the unholy offspring of a magical girl anime and a Super Robot anime. Neither of these fields lend themselves particularly well to the realm of hard sci-fi. The short version: Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha is not Planetes. There's no reason to treat it as such.
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2009-07-20, 07:19 | Link #2224 |
umbrella moe~♥
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: huh wha-?
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Go write harry potter fics then. Magic IS magic, but Nanoha sticks by magic working within limits and technology. Why else do you think a whole majority of the characters in the series uses technological contraptions as mediums for their magic instead of, say, a stick of elder wood with a Thestral tail hair embedded in it?
Also, inb4 NANOHA IS SERIOUS F*CK*NG BUSINESS.
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2009-07-20, 07:22 | Link #2225 |
The Interstellar Medium
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: [SWE]
Age: 34
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While I agree that IRL theories/physics don't work, since it's frikking fiction/anime, Nanoverse has its own share of science that explains magic or is a part of it. Going against it with "It's magic" would essentially go against canon. Nanoha is both fantasy and sci-fi, each of them having explanations.
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2009-07-20, 07:28 | Link #2226 | |
blinded by blood
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There is an explanation to why Nena resists the effects of magic, but it's not something I wanted to bandy about since it's relevant to the story's plot. I ended up spelling it out above and yet everyone ignored me in favor of arguing about whether magic in MGLN adheres to the laws of reality (which it doesn't). Again, Nena's magic resistance comes from the fact that her Linker Core is different (referred to as "inverse" in the story itself) than most and thus she has a chance to negate spells cast upon her. If one must really use a scientific analogy, I would liken it to destructive interference in active noise-canceling headphones. By countering the ambient waveforms with an identical wave 180 degrees out of phase, the result is a cancellation effect.
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2009-07-20, 07:29 | Link #2227 | |||||||||
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The quote itself does not say anything about it not attenuating at all regardless of the distance, without an energy feed (Divine Buster is basically continuous emission to impact). The best interpretation is that it has a low decay rate, so with Nanoha feeding it it can suffer no decrease in end power within a distance regarded by the author as "long" (we can get a clue of that by comparing things to other times the author made similar claims and then seeing how long things actually were). Nobody wrote any guarantees at all about what happens once the author's idea of "long" is exceeded - maybe it falls to zero in a single meter. Should you insist on saying that the quote means it is 100% efficient in traverse and suffer no loss, which is a physical impossibility by the way, I'll just calmly point out it is GLOWING, which even in the absence of anything else means it is not losing zero energy. I know you have a low opinion of visuals, but short of saying that DB really doesn't glow observations truimph dialogue (actually, only your interpretation of it, but that's what will happen if you push). Quote:
Last edited by arkhangelsk; 2009-07-20 at 08:07. |
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2009-07-20, 07:37 | Link #2228 |
Writer, Jester, MtG nerd
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I still have a theory :/
Bullets can be made to penetrate armor, but not flesh, so it'll enter the body and do considerably more damage than it did the armor. Additionally, if magic can have its polarity of lethality altered, why not while its in use? fire the shot, blow the floors through, when the last floor is blown, swap lethality polarity. She knew exactly where she was, the timing is easy to calculate. And Ark, yeah yeah matter is empty, but you need to explain why it matters. http://news.softpedia.com/news/How-D...rk-56249.shtml And Keroko, your analogy is flawed if for only that the 'third can' was not blown in nanoha. The floor below Quattro was undamaged. (rewatching...) Hmm, fine obliterated. Hadn't seen any replies yet, but I'll mention their concerns. Didn't appear to be a direct shot on her, magic doesn't move at the speed of light, so she had time to get crushed by the outer edge of the blast and theoretically take less damage? You know, I'm not even confident I know what direction Nanoha fired her shot.
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Last edited by itanshi1; 2009-07-20 at 07:59. |
2009-07-20, 07:43 | Link #2229 |
blinded by blood
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Most MGLN fans don't even know Toraha exists. ^^;
And no, I'm not explicitly picking on people for being meticulous about this sort of thing. I just believe that when it comes to writing, one should focus on the story and not so much on infodumps. After all, the story will be told from the perspective of Teana, Fate and Nena--two criminal investigators and combat-type mages and a magic-dead mercenary. None of them are especially learned in the inner workings of magic--Nena perhaps least of all. She has practical knowledge of magic... how to counter it, how to avoid it, how to withstand it, but not necessarily how it works. Fate and Teana are similar--they know it better than Nena does, since they use it and have come up with their own spells and variant applications, but to use something doesn't imply that you have the knowledge to create that something. It's doubtful that any of these three know enough to infodump concerning magic with any kind of authority. ^^;
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2009-07-20, 07:46 | Link #2230 |
Adeptus Animus
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Ironically I just finished a similar debate over at the Strike Witches thread, except this time I was the one using visuals and Tk was using the novel. To say the two contradicted eachother on multiple occasions would be... an understatement. In the end we decided to discard the anime and stick with the novel, as the novel offered actual explanations on the situations while anime mostly did the things they did because it was either cool or easier to animate, and still made it subject to interpretation.
My point? Written sources and dialog > observations of animation. Ark, you see Nanoha blowing a hole in the Cradle while leaving Quattro unharmed and go on a tangent of mana particles and fermions. I see the same scene and say it was magic damage. Now if we judge by the interpretations of the scene alone, neither of us is right or wrong. After all, that is why they are interpretations. So we need another source to confirm our interpretations. Enter written sources and dialog. And this is why I keep asking for canonical support of a written source. An interpretation of a scene followed by a theory of how it worked is not canonical support, it's a theory. I do not see why I should believe your theory to be the right one if you have no way to back it up. Last edited by Keroko; 2009-07-20 at 08:27. |
2009-07-20, 07:46 | Link #2231 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2008
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2nd: what do you think most of their class on magics were? why do you think Vivio has classes too? why do you think Nanoha and most mage are *extremely* good at maths? they may not be as good as Shari/Ami, but they *are* aware of how it works, and *are* able to tweak things. |
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2009-07-20, 08:10 | Link #2235 |
Writer, Jester, MtG nerd
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Nanoha seems as a series to have the tendency to portray the characters fearing things that aren't that scary.
Diabolic emission? She'd of done better if she punched that shield. http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/8644/shieldw.jpg Was that SLB that I'm thinking of?
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Last edited by itanshi1; 2009-07-20 at 08:26. |
2009-07-20, 08:50 | Link #2236 | |||
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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Besides, you seem to be dealing in a situation where there are clear contradictions. Most of our debates, there are none. Quote:
As for theories. Here's what you do. Look at my theory, see if it matches up with the episodes themselves. If it does, its a valid theory - the only question is whether it is the best one. Now, go check the books to see if there are other theories. If it says nothing on the matter, take it unless you can come up with something better. If it says something on the matter, compare it with what's on the screen. If it is not what's happening, the theory has a problem. We start debating if both theories are valid, but IMO that doesn't happen very often - I'm too lazy myself to make my own theories if a half-workable one is in canon... |
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