Macross Frontier - Episode 23 Discussion / Poll

[kilroy0097]

I looks like Alto is stepping up to the plate and making a thoughtful decision. Glad to see some redemption there.
BTW that's a compliment in case my wording imply otherwise.

Poor Sheryl. That airplane at the end was filled with meaning and implied future. I really felt that it was very bittersweet.

[KiNA]

Originally Posted by BleachOD

Wow for the first time we agree! XD.

KINA....Get my sig ready.

You didnt win yet

[ipernorris]

Originally Posted by MaiHikari

* Alto joined SMS to protect Ranka, and now to protect the rest of Frontier, he is willing to kill Ranka. There are a few ways to interpret this. The first, which was brought up in this forum, and I don't agree with: Alto wants to kill Ranka for her own good because he loves her and doesn't want to see her turn bad. If that is what Alto's thinking, then he's just selfishly using "Ranka's sake" as an excuse to kill her, despite her own wishes to live, even to live with him. In this case, he is a coward and a hypocrite. The second, which is reaffirmed by the theme of the series and by Alto's brother and Klan's words, is that he simply wants to protect but his method is really the wrong way to do it. He can't protect something by destroying something else. That is not what love means. Thus, what Klan wants to tell Alto in this episode is not referring to Alto's romantic love, but his misguided methods.

Yeah you're right: Alto can't destroy the bugs to protect his beloved ones! He must love the bugs and if some millions of people die in the process of reaching such love it's too bad, but those sacrifices are necessary for reaching the "universal love".... AS IF!!!
It's easy to fill a mouth with sweet words like love and such for people who isn't involved in wars directly: try stating your reasonment to those people and see what they answer... if you're still alive to tell about the answer of course!
I hope the bugs will get a nice fold bomb suppository by the end of the series becoming space dust.

[sekidousai]

Originally Posted by ipernorris

It's easy to fill a mouth with sweet words like love and such for people who isn't involved in wars directly: try stating your reasonment to those people and see what they answer... if you're still alive to tell about the answer of course!

Care to share you're experience???
Have you killed anyone before??? Is it such a wonderful feeling.....?

[Supah Em]

I've been lurking here since episode 1 and the shipping wars have been increasing at an alarming rate over the past few episodes. Medium-scale shipping wars like those in Kimikiss and True Tears doesnt even come close to what this series has become. It certainly shows Kawamori's art in dealing with his fans ( hence the longevity of the series ) and Frontier is his latest Weapon of Mass Trolling.

I could imagine the flame wars after the last two episodes are aired and how much cleaning the mods will do after that


Late one liner comments for the episode:

- Quality was crap
- Alto/Klan's interrogation scene was a bit confusing (Amplified by the interpretations of shippers/fans in this thread)
- Sheryl in chibi mode was a bit creepy
- Preview looks promising

[BetoJR]

It certainly is a testament to the quality of the team behind Macross F, that so many heated arguments are fought over minute details of each episode, from a certain point of said series.

I just hope the conclusion turns out as magnificent as the build-up so far.

[sekidousai]

lols.... ^_^ ... i would never thought the shipping wars escalated above TT and kimikiss ^^. i never posted in those thread so i did'nt know ^^....

Hmmmm. However i'm still waiting for the next shipping wars ^^. It seems like this is the calm before the storm haha ^^.... I think i started eating my popcorn too early... I should've same some for later ^^

[BetoJR]

Oh, well... I'll have my popcorn to go, then. But I'll watch from time to time. The arguing can be a bit daunting, sometimes...

[ipernorris]

Originally Posted by sekidousai

Care to share you're experience???
Have you killed anyone before??? Is it such a wonderful feeling.....?

What the heck are you blabbing?
My point is that people who haven't known wars can't understand the opinions and the actions of people who has been involved in wars, in particular the revenge issue. Here I read posts full of compassion and friendship towards the Vajra using OUR pov and assuming that's the one of people on Frontier. AS IF!!!
Those people lost lots of beloved ones so their only possible feeling towards the bugs is hatred and hope for their annihilation.
I thought it was obvious what I meant, but then you came out with your nonsense...

[MaiHikari]

Originally Posted by ipernorris

What the heck are you blabbing?
My point is that people who haven't known wars can't understand the opinions and the actions of people who has been involved in wars, in particular the revenge issue. Here I read posts full of compassion and friendship towards the Vajra using OUR pov and assuming that's the one of people on Frontier. AS IF!!!
Those people lost lots of beloved ones so their only possible feeling towards the bugs is hatred and hope for their annihilation.
I thought it was obvious what I meant, but then you came out with your nonsense...

The theme is not OUR pov, it's the DIRECTOR & co. Whether you like it or not, it's there in every Macross series.

[BetoJR]

But, it is also true that the theme got a little bit thrown around, since we've got most of Frontier's people rallying for the annihilation of the Vajra, no?

[sekidousai]

Well i guess that's for the Drama ^^... there would'nt really spawn any hate in the people if they look and act like pokemons. Also to generate enough blind hate so that the actual nemesis moves freely behind the smoke and mirrors...

[ipernorris]

Originally Posted by MaiHikari

The theme is not OUR pov, it's the DIRECTOR & co. Whether you like it or not, it's there in every Macross series.

Wow I didn't know the POV in an anime is the POV of its director... thanks for clearing it out for me!
On a more serious note I meant that OUR POV is the one we use to analyze Macross Frontier situation and it isn't adequate because we're used to peace, while Macross Frontier people is not. We should try to understand Macross Frontier people better, that's all I said.

[MaiHikari]

Originally Posted by ipernorris

Wow I didn't know the POV in an anime is the POV of its director... thanks for clearing it out for me!
On a more serious note I meant that OUR POV is the one we use to analyze Macross Frontier situation and it isn't adequate because we're used to peace, while Macross Frontier people is not. We should try to understand Macross Frontier people better, that's all I said.

I totally understand. Which is why if I was in that situation, I'd be full of hate for the vajras too, and wouldn't care about all these love & friendship blabbering.

BUT... we still need to analyze the anime from the theme that it was being portrayed, in order to better understand what Klan means in her words. She's more mature than Alto and can understand that peace may not be attainable through killing others.

[BetoJR]

And, if it's proved that the Vajra hive-mind is actually being controlled by outside forces, it will be a blow to Frontier's morale, as well. Maybe not so much as to overshadow all the deaths, but significant, anyway.

[BleachOD]

I really liked it. Sheryl being all girlie and cute was a refreshing change. I liked seeing that in her. Great episode!

[monir]

Originally Posted by MaiHikari

BUT... we still need to analyze the anime from the theme that it was being portrayed, in order to better understand what Klan means in her words. She's more mature than Alto and can understand that peace may not be attainable through killing others.

Hear hear! It's not like the human side is suffering the casualties only. Vajraa's are dying in masses also, and the count is probably far higher considering how one cannon can decimate a skyfull of them.

Wonder how the Vajraa are telling the stories of Macross Frontier?

[Wesley84]

Somehow I taught the Vajra are taking things as personally as the people of Frontier are.

[sekidousai]

Nice PoV seeing through the Vajra lenses

I agree both sides are suffering casualties... But many still claim that they should be treated like ordinary bugs or rather pests that is best exterminated.... Many here argue that the Vajra's shares a collective consciousness like bees(it could be more advanced than bees). I don't know if that's really a good or a bad thing for an alien race to have... But then i again i remember Gene Roddenberry's earth final conflict show which shows that they have a collective consciousness as well but still able to excersise a certain amount of free will..... i think i have to look at it more closely... anyway continue.....

[MaiHikari]

Originally Posted by sekidousai

Nice PoV seeing through the Vajra lenses

I agree both sides are suffering casualties... But many still claim that they should be treated like ordinary bugs or rather pests that is best exterminated....

It's rather hypocritical for me to say that though...because I woulnd't mind exterminating cockroaches if my house should have any. That's what it means to expand humanity and live in comfort. I never thought of how a cockroach would feel. To some extent, I think of polar bears, pandas, and whales that are going extinct because of humanity, but not all the time, when I go buy my groceries or Prada bags.

It's easier to see it from the PoV presented in the series, but it's application is much wider and harder to swallow.