(L) C: The Money of Soul and Possibility Control (w/Kenji Nakamura)

[sapphire-pyro]

Oh I love the recent episode as usual~ It gets more and more impressive, and I'm appreciating Kimimaro more and more~

Originally Posted by physics223

@Sapphire

I didn't go into the nomenclature of the cards, just that it easily reflects the representative carriers of it from what we've seen. As the series goes on it may be rectified, but so far I'm just surprised at its congruence with the characters.

Whoops, it was a misunderstanding for commenting freakin' early in the morning and for not reading you article yet, ahaha. Sorry ^^;

[DragoZERO]

I don't know how they got rid of his kids like that... but that is really depressing.

[Kaioshin Sama]

The first quarter of this episode was so choppy and abrupt that I honestly had no idea what was going on until halfway through the episode when we got back to the real world and Yoga started with talking with his professor about the fight and having children. After that it was actually kind of interesting.....and depressing, but I still have to wonder just what the heck is up with the frequent choppy editing that Tatsunoko employs in this show. First episode had by far the most blatant example of it and I almost stopped watching right there as a result.

Mikuni's fight was also kind of choppy and confusing to a degree now that I think of it, and by this point in the show I don't think there's too much excuse for having little to no idea how the rules and duels work in the Financial District other than that you go bankrupt if you lose all your money, that a landed attack equals gain and that you can invest money or "stocks" in attacks to power them up. That's honestly about all that I got....now if they could just work on the flow of battle actually making some degree of sense to viewer....

If I had to draw a comparison it is like the first two seasons of Yu-Gi-Oh where they appeared to just completely make up the rules of the game as they went along so that it could fit with the flow of the episode and who they wanted to win as opposed to resembling any sort of clearly fleshed out game like the following seasons.

[FateAnomaly]

Actually going to the financial district is kind of limited form of time travel. Working with another card holder it is theoretically possible to "predict the future". Since people return to whatever time they came from and they can come and go at any time. Join the guild to maintain your balance in the financial district but earn money in the real world. Maybe there is some other mechanics to balance this.

[physics223]

Originally Posted by FateAnomaly

Actually going to the financial district is kind of limited form of time travel. Working with another card holder it is theoretically possible to "predict the future". Since people return to whatever time they came from and they can come and go at any time. Join the guild to maintain your balance in the financial district but earn money in the real world. Maybe there is some other mechanics to balance this.

I attempted to comprehend this, but I still lack information. The thread will only liven up with more speculation, so I think the existence of the tarot and the qabalah symbols in the FD signify that life emanates from there and is a priority over the real world, not to mention that the tarot is also involved with seeing one's 'futures.'

I don't think Masakaki is the symbol for the devil, however. I think he's more of a pagan god, and in this sense seems to be more like Pluto than anyone else. I'm probably just spouting nonsense, so feel free to castigate my hypotheses here.

[sapphire-pyro]

@ FateAnomaly
Interesting speculation but... won't the "weekly" Deals be confusing? Perhaps they can only stay in the District for a day or something. Oh well, perhaps there'll be more explanation on how exactly time works in the future. Right now all we know is that you can return to the same time you left.

@ physics223
Saw your post and I forgot to add this: I looooooooove your comparison of the Financial District to Inferno. It soooo makes sense.
But hhhmm... still not sure about Masakaki on the pagan god you're referring to. Maybe it's another pagan god. Hmmm.....

[TheGeekHuntress]

I am liking the direction this thread is going. It had not crossed my mind to see such symbolism and it makes the show all the more interesting.

@physics223

Thanks for that link. I will be looking at the show differently to see where you came from with your observations.

[DragoonKain3]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

If I had to draw a comparison it is like the first two seasons of Yu-Gi-Oh where they appeared to just completely make up the rules of the game as they went along so that it could fit with the flow of the episode and who they wanted to win as opposed to resembling any sort of clearly fleshed out game like the following seasons.

Yeah, feel the same way about the fights.


But by now I'm looking past the 'fights' and looking at other stuff, cuz I know the fights would've detracted from my enjoyment of the show. For example, I really like how that Guild leader is trying to keep the real world's balance from collapsing, or how main guy is slowly moving away from 'I just want a normal life' mentality. So I keep the fights at the back of my mind, as otherwise I don't think I can go on with the show lol.

Originally Posted by konart

People die if they are killed, aha

Ahhh... gotta love Shiro (or was that the translator's fault? can't remember). Where's that motivational poster when you need it? XD

[TinyRedLeaf]

It would be interesting to see how the tarot and Kabbalah symbols tie in with the story. I can understand why they're exciting to ponder — it's a bit like discovering the Bible code.

Meanwhile, now that Ep4 has established what it means to lose one's future, certain parts of Ep3 begin to make sense. Watching that earlier episode, I was puzzled by a number of "choppy" scenes that, at first glance, appear to be the result of sloppy editing. Observe, for example, the scene where Jennifer Satou was spying on Kimimaro from inside her van (at around 4:50) — do you notice the few instances of choppy animation? As though a few in-between frames have been omitted?

There is a possibility that those "missing frames" are the result of dying "futures", slices of reality that had been literally removed from space-time, confiscated by the Financial District. The "choppiness" happens again near the end of the episode, at the International Monetary Fund headquarters, after Jennifer's meeting with her boss. She suddenly skips from one floor to another, and from the back of the lobby to the front of it.

Of course, I could be wrong, and these instances could indeed be just sloppy production. But, still, I wonder...

There are, however, much stronger examples of "lost futures" in the episode. For instance, notice when Jennifer joined a queue at the metro station: everyone was waiting to buy doughnuts. Jennifer suddenly felt a "wave" pass through her, prompting her to observe: "It's huge."

Next thing she knew, the doughnut store was gone. In its place was a taiyaki store instead. Jennifer had just witnessed the disappearance of some entre's hopes and dreams. She could feel it happening but, like all other ordinary people, she couldn't quite put a finger on what transpired.

Another example: While staking out Shoichiro's mansion, Jennifer was approached by a policewoman. Not recognising her, Jennifer asked if she was a new cop on the beat, only to be flummoxed when the policewoman replied that she had been on the beat all along — and that the officer Jennifer remembered, Azuma, did not exist.

Azuma, I venture, was quite likely another lost entre.

All these little ripples in space-time — they could eventually drastically alter reality as we know it, the way the proverbial flap of a butterfly's wings causes a hurricane on the other side of the world.

C for chaos. Is that the Devil's plan?

[underpaid]

Originally Posted by FateAnomaly

Actually going to the financial district is kind of limited form of time travel. Working with another card holder it is theoretically possible to "predict the future". Since people return to whatever time they came from and they can come and go at any time. Join the guild to maintain your balance in the financial district but earn money in the real world. Maybe there is some other mechanics to balance this.

I think experiencing time in the financial district is different than in our world, so when a hour passes in the financial district, a second passes in our world, making that not possible but good idea.
At least that is what i got when they explained it

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

There are, however, much stronger examples of "lost futures" in the episode. For instance, notice when Jennifer joined a queue at the metro station: everyone was waiting to buy doughnuts. Jennifer suddenly felt a "wave" pass through her, prompting her to observe: "It's huge."

Next thing she knew, the doughnut store was gone. In its place was a taiyaki store instead. Jennifer had just witnessed the disappearance of some entre's hopes and dreams. She could feel it happening but, like all other ordinary people, she couldn't quite put a finger on what transpired.

Another example: While staking out Shoichiro's mansion, Jennifer was approached by a policewoman. Not recognising her, Jennifer asked if she was a new cop on the beat, only to be flummoxed when the policewoman replied that she had been on the beat all along — and that the officer Jennifer remembered, Azuma, did not exist.

Azuma, I venture, was quite likely another lost entre.

All these little ripples in space-time — they could eventually drastically alter reality as we know it, the way the proverbial flap of a butterfly's wings causes a hurricane on the other side of the world.

C for chaos. Is that the Devil's plan?

Nice catch. I remember being intrigued by those odd events, but by the time episode four aired, I had already forgotten about those scenes. Indeed, it all makes sense now. Very nice foreshadowing. C seems like the kind of show where analyzing every scene is actually rewarding.

[Deconstructor]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

There is a possibility that those "missing frames" are the result of dying "futures", slices of reality that had been literally removed from space-time, confiscated by the Financial District. The "choppiness" happens again near the end of the episode, at the International Monetary Fund headquarters, after Jennifer's meeting with her boss. She suddenly skips from one floor to another, and from the back of the lobby to the front of it.

Of course, I could be wrong, and these instances could indeed be just sloppy production. But, still, I wonder...

Another possibility also exists: The missing frames are too insignificant to show the viewer; they are therefore cut out to save time. Of importance from Jennifer's visit is the content of her discussion with her boss, not how she walks from one end of the lobby to another. Be this the result of bad production values? Possibly. It could also be the result of lower anime budgets.

There are, however, much stronger examples of "lost futures" in the episode. For instance, notice when Jennifer joined a queue at the metro station: everyone was waiting to buy doughnuts. Jennifer suddenly felt a "wave" pass through her, prompting her to observe: "It's huge."

Next thing she knew, the doughnut store was gone. In its place was a taiyaki store instead. Jennifer had just witnessed the disappearance of some entre's hopes and dreams. She could feel it happening but, like all other ordinary people, she couldn't quite put a finger on what transpired.

Yes.

Here is a thought-provoking question: Is the taiyaki store owner also an entrepreneur, or is he simply an unimportant character to fill in the removed space? Metaphorically speaking, the taiyaki store "conquers" the doughnut store. When any food restaurant in a competitive market fails to meet their monthly earnings, another one will take it's place. In the Financial District, when an Entrepreneur goes bankrupt in a deal, the opposing entrepreneur inherits all of the loser's assets. So this new doughnut store may be a more powerful Entrepreneur who has taken over the previous and imposed his own business. Soon, all of the world's Dunkin' Donuts will be replaced by taiyaki stores.

Another example: While staking out Shoichiro's mansion, Jennifer was approached by a policewoman. Not recognising her, Jennifer asked if she was a new cop on the beat, only to be flummoxed when the policewoman replied that she had been on the beat all along — and that the officer Jennifer remembered, Azuma, did not exist.

Azuma, I venture, was quite likely another lost entre.

Perhaps, but maybe not. Jennifer stated she was the only agent in her organization to have access to the Financial District; of course, the policewoman Azuma may not be part of Jennifer's organization. There is also the possibility of Azuma being directly related to an Entrepreneur instead of being the Entrepreneur herself. As seen when Yoga's professor loses, the price of bankruptcy can be whatever a person's "future" is.

All these little ripples in space-time — they could eventually drastically alter reality as we know it, the way the proverbial flap of a butterfly's wings causes a hurricane on the other side of the world.

Still, your butterfly effect has yet to show the signature dominoes falling. Currently, all cases of Entrepreneur bankruptcy have been discrete, isolated events. No one remembers Yoga's professor even had a daughter, as if she never existed. No one remembers the doughnut store. No one... except Kimimaro.

Collapse of the Financial District may cause your theory to prove true. Whatever power in charge of the District takes away a person's future, it can be argued this power's removal will cause nothing but chaos to ensue within the world. Mikuni himself seems to hint at the catastrophic implications of the District falling apart, and is working diligently to keep the Financial District stable. It would be disastrous if all the Midas Money in the world suddenly disappeared.

C for chaos. Is that the Devil's plan?

We really have nothing left to overanalyze.

[Forsaken_Infinity]

That was a very very nice catch indeed, tinyredleaf. Shows you just how much attention to small details can help you enjoy an anime more. I am really impressed. With both you for catching it and for the anime staff for those subtle touches.

[wandering-dreamer]

I had been wondering about all of those little scenes in episode three, I didn't catch that the doughnut store turned into a takiyaki store, so nice catch! I just saw episode four and I was thinking, what if the reason Yoga's father committed suicide was so Yoga woudn't be erased? They can't take your future if you're dead after all and, considering that we've heard a couple of news reports in the background on children being killed, this might be a fairly common way to take away someone's future. Maybe he found out what would happen right after he went bankrupt and killed himself to save Yoga, probably not the case (although Yoga's professor does bring up that it might be luck that Yoga is still around, ie, he thinks it's strange that the child of a bankrupt entre is still around and isn't sure how it happened, also suggesting that losing your kids is a common penalty) but I think it's an interesting theory.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

Another example: While staking out Shoichiro's mansion, Jennifer was approached by a policewoman. Not recognising her, Jennifer asked if she was a new cop on the beat, only to be flummoxed when the policewoman replied that she had been on the beat all along — and that the officer Jennifer remembered, Azuma, did not exist.

Azuma, I venture, was quite likely another lost entre.

I think it's worse than that and Azuma wasn't an entre at all. That's the point Shoichiro's trying to make: when entrepreneurs go bankrupt, they end up affecting a lot more than just themselves or just their close family. Well, maybe not small fries like the teacher, but big ones do.

So you end up with whole sections of reality rewritten because some rich idiot lost a pokemon fight.

[tsunade666]

Spoiler for 5:

Kimimaro trying to win with balance deal even though his a complete beginner leads to his first defeat. Even though he could win easily. Ramen eating time and a weird creepy old lady with a creepy asset as an opponent in the end. Mikuni is still teaching Kimimaro how things are done and the old man that Mikuni fight last episode is now dead. Kimimaro was frantic because a lost is a lost and it will still effect the real world but it looks like it's not that big of a change. The teacher is all alone now.

[serenade_beta]

Spoiler for ep5:

Ah... Poor Sensei, I wouldn't be surprised if he tries to commit suicide soon, since his life is still going downhill. If his kids weren't enough, now his wife!

Kimimaro...
Since it seems Hanabi didn't get affected by his loss, it means that she has nothing to do with his future?

Anyways, so this explains the recent PSN incident! Sony's president must have lost a deal...

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

Spoiler for 5:

and the old man that Mikuni fight last episode is now dead.

Spoiler for episode 5:

The old man... dead? That's unexpected.

Originally Posted by tsunade666

Spoiler for 5:

The teacher is all alone now.

Spoiler for 5:

Ouch. Seems like you lose everything, indeed

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

Spoiler for ep5:

Since it seems Hanabi didn't get affected by his loss, it means that she has nothing to do with his future?

Spoiler for 5:

As long as the loss isn't a bankrupt, there shouldn't be THAT much of an effect on one's life, should it? Anyway, might be too early to say whether she's a part of his future or not.

[serenade_beta]

Originally Posted by DarkLordOfkichiku

Spoiler for episode 5:

The old man... dead? That's unexpected.

Spoiler for 5:

As long as the loss isn't a bankrupt, there shouldn't be THAT much of an effect on one's life, should it? Anyway, might be too early to say whether she's a part of his future or not.

Spoiler for ep5:

Last time I checked, he isn't dead yet.

True.
But it would have some kind of effect, which didn't seem to happen.
However, maybe it was so small she didn't notice it. Or maybe it did happen, but since the entire world was rewritten, she doesn't realize it.
*shrug*
Oh the complicated nature of time and space and all of that stuff.

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

Spoiler for ep5:

Last time I checked, he isn't dead yet.
.

then what's the news about?

Spoiler for 5:

it looks like his hospital or in stretcher or something plus he lost a game. And it looks like a big impact