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Old 2015-05-26, 18:42   Link #1
Triple_R
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AnimeSuki Reviews Subforum

We've very recently had significant changes brought to the forums layout of AnimeSuki. With that in mind, perhaps now is a good time to present an idea that I've been rolling around in my head for awhile

AnimeSuki has many members who have been anime fans for a very long time. This site also has some members that have wrote lengthy anime reviews on other sites, or on personal blogs.

I think AnimeSuki's membership has a strong overall talent for writing good and thought-provoking anime reviews. And I think that this talent is something that could be greater utilized in a way that would benefit both AnimeSuki and its membership, and maybe even benefit some lurkers that come across the site.


My idea here is an AnimeSuki Reviews Subforum. My idea is that this subforum could be fused with the "Suggestions" forum, or positioned as a subforum under it (like what "Playback Help" is to "Tech Support").

On this AnimeSuki Reviews Subforum, members would be able to write up a series review of any anime show, OVA, or movie that they wish to review. If the review contains spoilers, the thread title for the review would include [Spoilers]. [Spoilers] reviews could make for good discussion-starters on a particular anime show, especially an older one. Non-spoiler reviews could have suggestion/recommendation value.

I think there's a fair number of people here on AnimeSuki who could bring a lot to a subforum like this one. I know some other AS members that write excellent MAL reviews, or blog reviews. Here on AnimeSuki, such reviews may well enjoy a larger audience and/or more fandom interaction.


Now, I'm not sure how many AS members would be interested in writing reviews for such a hypothetical subforum. I will say that I myself would likely write at least a couple reviews for such a subforum, if it came into existence.

So my idea here is somewhat tentative, and I'm very much interested in hearing what other AS members have to say about it.
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Old 2015-05-26, 18:44   Link #2
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I would actually love having this happen.
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Old 2015-05-26, 20:22   Link #3
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My concern about this would be that it takes the discussion out of the threads themselves and splits it over multiple locations. It fractures/segments the discussion about the same topic. It almost becomes another form of "Fan Creations" where it's about the person's writing about a given topic. Because we don't really have a way like MAL does to tie the reviews together through a database of shows, these threads would be floating out there in a different section that people would have to go visit, and it would encourage cross-posting and attention-splitting. And, at least for shows that do have a sub-forum, we do create threads for posting season-end reviews and have everything aggregated there, so this again splits it.

This isn't like any sort of final answer or anything, but that's my concern when reading the proposal.
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Old 2015-05-29, 08:50   Link #4
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A review on a series sub forum or thread can be different from a review dedicated to itself. An 'inside' review talks for people who've seen or read it while an 'independent' one is written for everyone else (or so I hope). The idea is a dedicated review section is solely for posting reviews without delving into spoilers. And to be honest, even on MAL, discussions don't spring from reviews on a series sub forum, though there might be a thread talking about why the reviews for the series in general are what they are. People tend to take it to profiles (comments:VMs), or the discussion on sub forum is its own thing. And this is MAL we're talking about.
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Old 2015-05-29, 14:28   Link #5
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I would suggest it be for series without dedicated active subforums, to minimize cross-posting. Active subforums have their own review thread already. Posting a review in a series that only has a single thread tends to be too easily lost and usually not worth the effort.

This also allows easier access to reviews of older series, and less likelihood of the discussions overlapping all over the place as it is likely if you post about a series from the 80s or 90s, we most likely aren't actively discussing it, nor are many people going to even dig up threads if they even exist.
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Old 2015-05-29, 15:04   Link #6
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So uh, what about when a series just ends and there's that rush of reviews (so lets say 10+ people all write on one series)
It would be pretty troublesome to see so many reviews of the same series and discussion would be fragmented (assuming the series does not have its own dedicated subforum)
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Old 2015-05-29, 15:59   Link #7
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I'm not sure how one discusses reviews beyond critiquing the review itself, which would be more about the poster than the actual series. Is that what you are proposing TripleR? Are we just creating a thread filled with reviews of each series (etc) and no discussion? Or are we trying to come up with some sort of official review for every series (plus manga, novels, games, music, etc)? In which case we are choosing the best review from the thread, which also becomes more about the poster than the series.

Sorry, I just am unsure exactly what you are looking for in terms of a what a review sub-forum is supposed to accomplish.

Personally, I think summaries would be a better avenue for potential new viewers rather than actual reviews...but then the Suggestion sub-forum is already built to handle such posts, though only if a poster there knows what they want to see.
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Old 2015-05-29, 18:06   Link #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
I would suggest it be for series without dedicated active subforums, to minimize cross-posting. Active subforums have their own review thread already. Posting a review in a series that only has a single thread tends to be too easily lost and usually not worth the effort.
That's probably a good suggestion given relentlessflame's points.


Quote:
This also allows easier access to reviews of older series, and less likelihood of the discussions overlapping all over the place as it is likely if you post about a series from the 80s or 90s, we most likely aren't actively discussing it, nor are many people going to even dig up threads if they even exist.
Right. One of the main values I see with my idea here is that it could lead to some discussion on older, popular anime shows that predate Anime Suki. Or even discussion on a show that's 4 years old or more, that only had a series thread, and now seems largely forgotten.


There's a fair number of active users here that have seen older classics - like Legend of the Galactic Heroes, or the original Mobile Suit Gundam, or Escaflowne, or the older Macross shows.

AnimeSuki also has a very active Suggestions boards that speaks to a membership that is often looking for new shows to watch, and desires suggestions on new shows to watch.

So I was thinking that maybe we could conceive of a way to have a subforum that would both spark discussion on older anime, while also proving useful to AS members that are looking for other shows to watch. If that's too ambitious, then an AnimeSuki Reviews Subforum serving one role or the other might be useful. Something I thought might be worth considering at least.


Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
I'm not sure how one discusses reviews beyond critiquing the review itself, which would be more about the poster than the actual series.
I've wrote probably ten or so anime series reviews on two different blogs over the last few years. My personal experience is that when people reply to these blog reviews, they tend to talk about the show in question more than about the review in and of itself. I might get a comment like "nice review" or "you missed this...", but for the most part, I found that my blog reviews would get a little bit of discussion going on the show itself.


Quote:
Is that what you are proposing TripleR? Are we just creating a thread filled with reviews of each series (etc) and no discussion? Or are we trying to come up with some sort of official review for every series (plus manga, novels, games, music, etc)?
I'd be fine with either approach, honestly.


Quote:
Personally, I think summaries would be a better avenue for potential new viewers rather than actual reviews...but then the Suggestion sub-forum is already built to handle such posts, though only if a poster there knows what they want to see.
You might be right. Though I'm curious to know what format these summaries would take, and what they would entail. I mean, given Anime Suki's spoiler policy.
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Old 2015-05-30, 08:42   Link #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Are we just creating a thread filled with reviews of each series (etc) and no discussion? Or are we trying to come up with some sort of official review for every series (plus manga, novels, games, music, etc)? In which case we are choosing the best review from the thread, which also becomes more about the poster than the series.
The first approach might be a better idea, since using a piece as an official review almost becomes the reputation system all over again. But I would specify creating one review thread for each series that doesn't have its own subforum, as Archon suggested. To that end...
Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Personally, I think summaries would be a better avenue for potential new viewers rather than actual reviews...but then the Suggestion sub-forum is already built to handle such posts, though only if a poster there knows what they want to see.
...the first post in every thread would have the summary, the rest of the thread is dedicated to reviews.

IE,

[series name] review thread
OP has summary
following posts are dedicated to reviews

And what about series subforums moved to Retired? Should the review subforums have a sticky thread listing which series those are?
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Old 2015-05-30, 13:14   Link #10
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I'd second show review threads where shows get a thread and each post has to be a users review of that show?

I've seen that kind of thing done before with a score plugin which tallied the average review score. I think there is an IGN/GameFAQ's community reviews type plugin for doing so.
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Old 2015-05-30, 23:42   Link #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akuma Kinomoto View Post
...the first post in every thread would have the summary, the rest of the thread is dedicated to reviews.
The problem with this particular idea is: who will write the summary, and will it be sufficiently objective/bias-free? You'd end up with people arguing over the summary or the way it's presented.

And I'd also say that let's keep in mind that the purpose of a forum is to discuss. If you want a place where you get a summary of an anime and a collection of user reviews, why not just go to MAL, which was basically made for that sort of thing? That said, I do sort of see that there may be some benefit to creating a space where new viewers can get impressions of a series to help them decide if it's for them or not, and there may be some merit for that to be outside of the regular thread(s), given that they get into details and spoilers that you wouldn't want to wade through.

I guess I just want us to be clear about who is the audience, what is the goal, and what benefit there is for us doing here (as opposed to what else is out there on the Net). Understanding the answers to these questions will help us figure out the best form for this to take.
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Old 2015-05-31, 08:23   Link #12
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My concern is the opposite of relentlessflame's: a review forum wouldn't get many visitors in the first place. But if users would be allowed to link to their blogs, then that would provide the needed incentive.

I agree on attention-splitting, any change that introduces it potentially threatens discussion threads. It's not worth it, the forum is already losing posters as is.
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Old 2015-05-31, 09:10   Link #13
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Just so people know, I'm thinking about the questions relentlessflame raised to Akuma Kinomoto. But for now, I wanted to address what cyth wrote.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cyth View Post

I agree on attention-splitting, any change that introduces it potentially threatens discussion threads. It's not worth it, the forum is already losing posters as is.
Part of the reason why I put forward this AnimeSuki Reviews subforum idea is that I'm getting the same sense that you are. Anime Suki has seemed a little bit slower to me in the last year or two than in previous years.

I have to be frank, I think the forum could use some new life shot into it (largely for that reason, I'm glad for the recent forum restructuring). It's a very well-ran forum in general, to the credit of the Moderator staff, but with the one major exception that it has felt a bit staid to me in recent years.

AnimeSuki's initial raison d'être was providing anime torrents. People would flock to this site for the torrents, and then notice "Hey, this place also has a forum for anime discussion! Maybe I should check it out."

But this torrent appeal has been lost in recent years.

ANN has its news and reviews (whatever you think of them ), and MAL has its highly convenient way of helping you put together a thorough listing of everything you've watched and use it to link you up with other anime fans that share the same tastes and show/character preferences as you do. MAL is also known for its series summaries and reviews.

What does Anime Suki now have to compete with this? Well, I definitely think it's the best site for anime discussion, after having lurked on MAL and ANN and a few other anime message boards. I also think that Anime Suki is very well laid-out in general. But these are the sort of things that you actually have to be a part of AnimeSuki for awhile (or lurk it for awhile) to fully appreciate.

Now, what if AnimeSuki gains a greater reputation of being a good place to find anime series reviews and recommendations? That could drive more people to the site. It could attract more new members.

I never brought this up in the OP because I'll admit it's slightly "pie in the sky" thinking. But honestly, I think this site should probably try something to act against the sort of decline that you're seeing and that I'm also seeing.


Now, to address your specific complaint with a hypothetical example. I recently finished the anime Kimikiss. If this site already had an AnimeSuki Reviews series subforum, I probably would post a review of it there. The actual Kimikiss series thread has seen no activity in almost two years. You really think someone writing about Kimikiss on an AnimeSuki Reviews subforum would hurt the amount of discussion on the Kimikiss series thread?

Keep in mind that these reviews would be for shows that are already finished and without an AS subforum. I really don't think that would be hurting active discussion. If anything, I think it's likely to breath renewed interest into already finished series (some long finished, like Kimikiss).
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Old 2015-05-31, 13:35   Link #14
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I can sort of see why a review's subforum could get some attention, but under very specific conditions. It would need to have one review per thread, not multiple reviews of same series per thread. Why I've always refrained from posting reviews in those season impression/reviews threads is that I never bothered to read other people's reviews, and if that was the case with other people, then why should I bother posting? Nobody would read it anyway, I thought.

A person's opinion needs to be properly showcased, otherwise it's not a reviews forum, but another series impression forum.


Another point on attention-splitting. I don't think it was wise to split General Chat into so many subforums. I didn't visit it regularly, but its appeal was that you could sometimes find interesting topics from fields you don't necessarily pursue on your own. Now that it's split into technology, sports, and politics, few people get exposed to different topics. On another forum I visited, the admins broke off anime topics from movie topics into their own forum. That effectively killed anime threads, whereas before movie buffs would sometimes get exposed to something funky and cool to talk about even in anime threads. So splitting forums in my experience is almost always a bad thing, except if there are congestion problems.
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Old 2015-05-31, 20:47   Link #15
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The majority of discussions will tend to die down after the series ends which would be when reviews are posted anyways though, so I don't think there's that much attention to be split. I've also generally lost interest in the main review thread in subforums as it seems everything has cleared out if I'm a week or two behind, and I feel like nobody's even going to read, much less discuss anything I put in there though these days series reviews have been dropped for periodic episodic coverage which I felt captures my feelings on a series better than a general review usually does anyways.

Posting a review in a single thread series would be even worse, because there's no way many people are just going to be digging through so many pages to look for stuff like that. At worse, it can't be as bad as say, fhe F/sn forum where I just simply stopped posting in because the audience became way too fragmented-- but the big point here was confusion.


And yea, I definitely think the new general chat is sorta confusing too. So I understand the problems with making things too complicated.

Anyhow, I'd like to point out we have some pretty good seasonal impression threads as well already, despite being detached from the series discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
And I'd also say that let's keep in mind that the purpose of a forum is to discuss. If you want a place where you get a summary of an anime and a collection of user reviews, why not just go to MAL, which was basically made for that sort of thing? That said, I do sort of see that there may be some benefit to creating a space where new viewers can get impressions of a series to help them decide if it's for them or not, and there may be some merit for that to be outside of the regular thread(s), given that they get into details and spoilers that you wouldn't want to wade through.
I am at MAL too. There's plenty of reasons not to go there though.
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Old 2015-06-02, 20:52   Link #16
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Ok, I've given this some more thought, so I'm going to try to firm up the initial suggestion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post

I guess I just want us to be clear about who is the audience, what is the goal, and what benefit there is for us doing here (as opposed to what else is out there on the Net). Understanding the answers to these questions will help us figure out the best form for this to take.
The audience would be people looking for ideas on what anime to watch.

The goal would be to provide helpful advice on what anime to watch, while also maybe breathing some new life into discussion on a particular completed anime show.

The benefit of doing this here is that it might bring more attention to this site. That, plus what Archon said about MAL.


Speaking personally, I see basically two forms this could take, though I'd probably support anything that isn't radically different from either form.


Form 1: One thread, one review, discussion-based replies can come after the review. Only series (or movies/OVAs) that are not currently in their initial airing and do not have an AnimeSuki subforum, would be allowed to be reviewed. While I get IceHism's concern, I honestly don't think you'll often get a situation of Show X having a high number of different reviews.


Form 2: One thread per series, starts with a summary post that links to a MAL or Wiki write-up on the anime itself. After that you'd get reviewers replying with their reviews of the show. Similar to an Overall Series Review thread on a series subforum. Only series (or movies/OVAs) that are not in their initial airing and do not have an AnimeSuki subforum, would be allowed to be reviewed.


After thinking about it more, I'm inclined to agree with cyth, and so my personal preference would be Form 1. But I think either Form could provide a helpful subforum for AnimeSuki.
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Old 2015-09-21, 20:41   Link #17
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So, it's been a while, but we're planning to implement this idea shortly, along with a few other related changes.

What is currently the "Suggestions" forum would now become a parent forum called "Reviews and Recommendations", and it would have two sections underneath: "Reviews", and "Custom Recommendation Requests". So, it would look like this:
  • Reviews and Recommendations
    • Reviews
    • Custom Recommendation Requests

In the root forum ("Reviews and Recommendations"), we would create one thread for every major genre/classification (like action, comedy, romance, ecchi, whatever) and in that thread people could post works they want to recommend in that genre and the reason why, but it doesn't have to be a full review. If they want, though, they could create a full review and post it in the appropriate Reviews sub-forum and just link it in the genre thread.

The Reviews section would require you to pick the medium as a label when you create the thread (Anime/Manga/Light Novel/Web Novel/Visual Novel/Game), and it would be one review per thread. The thread title has to be the title of the work. Generally speaking, you would only post a review there once the work is complete, but in the case of long-running series, we might allow reviews for a block of volumes/content if it makes sense. We won't enforce the "Summary/Opinion" blog review format, but the idea is to give potential new viewers/readers an idea of whether the show might be for them. In general, it's best to avoid plot spoilers, except in rare cases where it's necessary to discuss the work (in which case spoiler tags would be required for that part of the review). In addition, you wouldn't be allowed to create a new Review thread just to link out to your blog or externally-hosted review, and you can't repost someone else's review.

"Custom Recommendation Requests" would be like our current "Suggestions" section and is for any requests for something specific that isn't covered by the genre threads on the root forum. So if you're looking for some specific thing and have criteria beyond just genre, then you can request it in this sub-forum. All the current threads of that nature would be moved there.


Any thoughts about the above? Any recommendations for what sort of editorial guidelines we might have in the Reviews thread to provide the proper balance between being welcoming for new reviewers and maintaining a high level of quality?

I am thinking that, assuming there are no major objections, we will implement this within the next few days.
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Old 2015-09-22, 22:05   Link #18
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^ This all sounds great to me!

So thanks a lot to you, and the moderating staff as a whole, for going forward with these changes.

On the editorial question, I think that the Forum Rules for Anime Suki as a whole may well provide all or most of what is needed here. I mean, the general "keep it family friendly" approach of Anime Suki should be enough to ensure that reviews don't become overly "colorful". The effects of the spoiler policy has already been addressed.

I think what you've going with, relentlessflame, should be fine. Perhaps some "quality assurance" issues may crop up over time, but if so, it can probably be dealt with then through changing some rules and/or having tighter editorializing. For the time being, I'm pretty confident that the people likely to write these reviews will do a good job of it.

The only thing I might suggest right now is having a character limit minimum for reviews in the Reviews subforum. It might be good to discourage very short reviews.
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Old 2015-09-29, 08:41   Link #19
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post

The only thing I might suggest right now is having a character limit minimum for reviews in the Reviews subforum. It might be good to discourage very short reviews.
Along the same reasoning, there should be a maximum limit as well. A review that is too long will be just as unhelpful as a review that is too short.
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