2010-08-17, 14:49 | Link #221 |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
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I do not believe that myself either, but Episode 7 has a lot of possible explanations for a lot of things.
In fact, it doesn't really set things in stone, aside Rion's associated identities (although I'm still not convinced about Kanon thrown in the lot). At least, the red herring is only based on the presentation, no "unecessary" red.
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2010-08-17, 14:54 | Link #222 |
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Well, Bern realized something about the red that many have not: I can be just as annoying as it is useful to confound the detective.
By providing him with an ordinary story, she's basically left every element or all elements completely open to interpretation or fabrication. There's no bedrock red on which any particular piece can be attacked. She's trusting the apparent coherency of the tale to avoid questions that might diminish it. I'm not sure she's fooling anyone, but at this point in Chiru I'm not sure she's supposed to, since we're obviously going to get the big finish in ep8... whatever that turns out to be. It could be anything from "ep7 was completely wrong" to "ep7 was right, but I'm going to tell you the real reasons for the facts, whose interpretations were twisted around."
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2010-08-17, 15:20 | Link #223 |
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The Yasu business just makes me think the bearer of sin should be Natsuhi rather than Battler.
But one must bomb everyone to death when Battler came back? Illogical. THus something was probably wrong. Bern's interpretation was definitely missing something.
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2010-08-17, 15:23 | Link #224 |
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I think saying EP7 is wrong is naive thinking. R07 said himself that the answers would be contained in EP6 and EP7. So, this is it.
Now, whether we can take things at face value is another thing. During EP6, R07 was never direct about anything. Some things may have been clear, but they were still up to interpretation, whereas, in EP7, other than Lyon's sex, almost everything was thrown into your face. Especially during the Tea Party, in which we're told that's the plain truth and there's even Red for that. Of course, once again, what you make out of that is up to you. Personally, I don't find too many inconsistencies between EP7 and past episodes. In fact, EP7 ties many things very, very well. It even makes the whole Shkanontrice deal somewhat more palatable. Sure, the whole deal about personalities getting killed acknowledged by the Red is complete rubbish. Hopefully, there'll be a better explanation for that. If not, well, too bad.
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2010-08-17, 15:31 | Link #225 | |
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2010-08-17, 15:48 | Link #226 | |
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*cough**splutter* Ahem... From what I've seen so far from you lot on here it seems all rather rushed a bit from Bern. It all works at first glance but doesn't hold up in the light of day. A quick wondering from myself though. Could we have a situation where Bern is lulling the readers and I assume Battler into a trap? The story seems to have enough holes in it to be picked apart but could it be leading to a bigger more soul destroying reveal? Kyrie and Rudolf being heartless murderers is pretty damning of course but coming from Bern its effect is dulled somewhat, if battler was lead into confirming it wouldn't it be Bern's Masterpiece? Ange being told Mum and dad are heartless murderers by trollkastel is one thing, but by her beloved Onii-chan? |
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2010-08-17, 15:55 | Link #227 |
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Bern's obviously playing an angle. Her behavior around Will is clearly off (and it's obvious she knows we'll notice). If she has a purpose other than what she does to Ange in ep7, I can't say. If she has any goal with respect to Battler, I also can't say, as he's seemingly not even in it much. Whether Battler is watching, or supposed to be watching, is unclear; though if the tail end of the story is even remotely accurate, he seems to have been aware of it.
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2010-08-17, 15:56 | Link #228 | |
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In fact, if Leon had lived somehow, the game could have ended with this episode and felt perfectly complete.
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2010-08-17, 15:59 | Link #229 |
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Of course it is. She brought him there to kill what was left of Beatrice's illusion. Will is a good guy, so he's not going to do anything that a cackling villain is going to tell him to do. That's what allows her to pull the guts from Claire and watch exactly how things played out.
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2010-08-17, 16:03 | Link #230 |
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I'm sure he's seen what happened, Bern has just portrayed his Dad and Kyrie as murderers and child killers of the worst kind. They may not see eye to eye constantly but he has enough affection for them to care for them thats clear throughout the episodes.
She's definately up to something and if the "no happy ending" bit is true the reveal isn't going to be all flowers and sunshine. |
2010-08-17, 16:12 | Link #232 |
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I think the red probably just means we'll see a return of the gold text. I'm not really sure what the point of saying there will be no happy ending in red since it's really somewhat subjective in what someone believes is a happy ending in the first place. This kind of reminds me of all the back-and-forth between Maria and Ange in EP4 about Rosa and how it's possible to put the situation under both a negative and positive light.
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2010-08-17, 16:13 | Link #233 | |
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As for the Tea Party, I don't think it has too many plot-holes. The bomb switch being there makes sense to me. Now, why would Kinzo set up such a thing is another matter, but thinking too much about it will only give me a headache. The guns being there also make sense, since Beatrice said she was ready to murder them all, had they not solved the Epitaph. Of course, whether mere greed and opportunism was the real reason behind those events is up to interpretation. Because of the Red, we know that what happened in that room is the real thing. However, the reason behind it is an entirely different matter. Either way, anyone has any idea what injury Yasu had that made him/her think s(he)'s unable to be loved, thus becoming furniture?
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2010-08-17, 16:16 | Link #234 | |
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Heck, take out "Beatrice" and the Tea Party could just as well play out the same way. Epitaph solved, adults flip out, Kyrie and Rudolf go gangsta on everybody. What part of this required Shkanon? What part of this was caused by Battler's sin? There is a clear and gaping divide between this supposed "answer," the answers Will gives in the main story, and the setup leading up to the end of the main story. What's going on here? Things are not reconciled, not even slightly.
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2010-08-17, 16:25 | Link #236 | ||
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The closed room murders exist to prove that there's something going on with Shannon and Kanon. The Epitaph is the for the gold and the bomb to be found. Quote:
Take out the letters and no one would have given one fuck about the Epitaph - at least, not enough to take it seriously, and solve it.
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2010-08-17, 16:25 | Link #237 | ||
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It also completely contradicts the Love Trial of ep6. We're told this is a serious internal conflict (if we buy that there's a triple identity) between three equal pulls. Yet ep7 seems to suggest Yasu/Beatrice/Leon is basically the only one that matters, and her affection for Battler is the only thing that matters. Kanon's feelings for Jessica, or Shannon and George's engagement, are scarcely even touched on. Aren't those things important, if this theory is true?
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The closed rooms don't really touch on Kanon or Shannon half the time, save instances where they're directly involved. Again, are we suggesting those are all just noise outright? Quote:
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2010-08-17, 16:33 | Link #238 | |
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The lack of Jessica's involvement is also weird. Wasn't the excuse to hire Yasu that he/she was supposed ot be a playmate for her?
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2010-08-17, 16:36 | Link #239 | |
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I don't really see any major contractions.
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2010-08-17, 16:43 | Link #240 | |
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The questions are just: Why did Hideyoshi lie about seing her corpse? Assuming that the shed has never ben a closed room: How the hell did she get out after Genji locked it?(note he used a brand new lock) The usual procedure would be doubting the CR, but we have to consider that it is a shed and not a room with 90 x 200 door... |
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