(L+CR) Overlord Season 3

[Magewolf]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

You are NOT the intended audience. People still think oversea market is a "boon" for the anime industry, while it has barely any effect. We already got enough comments of the animators that new actors in the industry such as netflix don't change the business model AT ALL. The whole point stands there: anime are more often than not used as a fancy bait for potential new customers for the original material, and the domestic market is the primary demographic they are targeting for good reasons.

The fact they keep doing such practices prove it IS profitable, to the point they can just do that ad nauseam, even if there are other series exploring the same stuff (the obvious surge of isekai LN/WN adaptations speak volume of that).
So no, you got it completely backwards. Anime series like that are not meant for foreigners in mind at all. The fact you spend money on crunchy roll etc doesn't mean anything to them aside of "extra".

Actually profitability from Anime as a whole has been going down for years. That is why you have animators on starvation wages and most new shows being the no budget bad ads we are talking about.

If you like Anime you had better hope that you are wrong about outside money being unimportant because that is about the only hope Anime has, since no one in the Japan seems willing or able to do anything about it.

[Klashikari]

That's not what the recent reports suggest. Even if the industry were to be weaker than previous years, the steady increase of productions demonstrate such practice is still profitable, which was my initial point. Again, all the stuff with netflix etc hardly change anything for the animators at large. So really, this situation needs a complete overhaul of the industry, that's about it.


Back to Overlord, budget is one thing, but the staff and the direction are more important for this kind of scene. As someone already stated, Shingeki could portray a massacre without being graphic, and even use a lot of static shot. But even then, the "mood" is still there, with proper camera pan, pacing and sound direction to boot. Practically none was noteworthy in this episode of Overlord.

[DemonneoPT]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

You are NOT the intended audience. People still think oversea market is a "boon" for the anime industry, while it has barely any effect. We already got enough comments of the animators that new actors in the industry such as netflix don't change the business model AT ALL. The whole point stands there: anime are more often than not used as a fancy bait for potential new customers for the original material, and the domestic market is the primary demographic they are targeting for good reasons.

The fact they keep doing such practices prove it IS profitable, to the point they can just do that ad nauseam, even if there are other series exploring the same stuff (the obvious surge of isekai LN/WN adaptations speak volume of that).
So no, you got it completely backwards. Anime series like that are not meant for foreigners in mind at all. The fact you spend money on crunchy roll etc doesn't mean anything to them aside of "extra".

With that mentality anime will never evolve and will keep being the usual cheap underpaid shit we see these days. How can there be a future to it, if the japanese are giving up on a career in the animation business due to the most retarded working conditions ever in a first world country? You are just thinking in the present and not in a long term solution. That's my critique. The West SHOULD be taken into account as a potential way to upgrade and help the industry. That's why i mentioned the recent popularity increase in anime outside of Japan as the green lit to do so. Relying on LN sales and using anime as mere incomplete ads is doomed to failure in the future. We are already seeing the negative effects of it. Netflix anime is just in the beggining. Of course it will not have a significant impact when only like 2 or 3 were produced by them in conjunction with japanese studios. But it's a start.

I'm not saying i have all the answers needed to solve this issue. Far from it, but i acknowledge there is a problem. By thinking the current practices are sustainable because there's still an internal booming at the moment and completely ignoring all the issues we constantly see regarding animation studios and the overall anime quality, aswell the waste of potential of just using it as mere ads for another medium is pure lack of vision by our japanese friends. That's why we end up with shit like Overlord that had everything to actually be great! For everybody, including sponsors. Anime should and can be independent from the LN business and become it's own business. There's demand for it.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

The anime "being just an ad" DOES work though. In the recent weeks the Overlord franchise sales for LNs (i.e. all volumes of the entire franchise) had been in the top 3 consistently, mostly at first place.

Yes, but that doesn't profit the animators one bit. Which is my point: animators do their best to make something worthwhile because a good anime is what puts money in their pockets, not an anime that makes people buy books. And if the animators aren't given enough resources and the right number of episodes for the right number of volumes, they can easily be faced with one big mass of doom, where they'll be lucky to make a "meh" item; in which case they have no choice but to focus on getting it done, minimizing costs and maximizing potential profits while hoping their work is good enough to inspire other publishers to come to them, perhaps with a bit more money to invest. And as I said, the only way publishers are going to start investing more in getting quality work and continuations is if fans demonstrate that no matter what the story is they'll still buy more at a faster rate when the show they saw was truly well-made and promised sequels. If there's not a clear benefit to large and continued investment, publishers will only pay small budgets for mediocre single-season "ads".

However, from what I've heard foreign sales are not absolutely useless. It depends on the amount we buy. I heard at least a couple of anime or anime movies were made as a result of large-scale foreign fandom (though the first one I can think of didn't really do well).

[Magewolf]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

That's not what the recent reports suggest. Even if the industry were to be weaker than previous years, the steady increase of productions demonstrate such practice is still profitable, which was my initial point. Again, all the stuff with netflix etc hardly change anything for the animators at large. So really, this situation needs a complete overhaul of the industry, that's about it.


Back to Overlord, budget is one thing, but the staff and the direction are more important for this kind of scene. As someone already stated, Shingeki could portray a massacre without being graphic, and even use a lot of static shot. But even then, the "mood" is still there, with proper camera pan, pacing and sound direction to boot. Practically none was noteworthy in this episode of Overlord.

I had seen that article before but I was talking about Anime as what we watch not as a licence farm for games and statues,which anime makers rarely get a cut of. That is like saying that because Marvel movies have been raking in billions Marvel comics must be doing well. However they have had one of their worst years ever and are having to use all kind of short term tricks, like 15 variant covers for one issue, just to stay in the black.

[~Yami~]

maaan... if you feel nothing after watching the newest episode, I'm afraid you have lost your humanity

it's so brutal... with those "baaa baaaa" sound

Gazef is a honorable man.. respect o7
Climb is going to be closer to the Princess after this
I think the relation between Nazarick and Kingdom would be similar with Carne Village
2 representative (Renner and Climb) with direct access to Nazarick

[TheForsaken]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Back to Overlord, budget is one thing, but the staff and the direction are more important for this kind of scene. As someone already stated, Shingeki could portray a massacre without being graphic, and even use a lot of static shot. But even then, the "mood" is still there, with proper camera pan, pacing and sound direction to boot. Practically none was noteworthy in this episode of Overlord.

Overlord never tries to become Shingeki. It is not that kind of anime.
Overlord is never about "utter despair in the face of unspeakable horror", but "let's trample over those hapless fools because it is fun".
I have spoken it before and I will speak it again now. Overlord is not a dark fantasy. It is never dark.

[Fwarlord]

Originally Posted by ~Yami~

Gazef is a honorable man.. respect o7

I am not really sure if he deserved respect. His refusal of Ainz's offer could may well spell the death of all of his soldiers, the king he served and the entire kingdom. But look like he never considered this and just wanted to fight Ainz to satisfy his ego.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by TheForsaken

Overlord never tries to become Shingeki. It is not that kind of anime.
Overlord is never about "utter despair in the face of unspeakable horror", but "let's trample over those hapless fools because it is fun".
I have spoken it before and I will speak it again now. Overlord is not a dark fantasy. It is never dark.

Oh it's dark alright. It's just a different kind of dark. It's not the sort of "MC's party is all doomed in this world devoid of hope" dark. Rather, the MC is the doom. The actions still carry weight, but instead of a dark despair of unsurpassable odds and sadistic enemies, you instead get the dark satisfaction of absolute power utilized with absolute brutality, like a little child pulling the wings off of butterflies just because he can.

[~Yami~]

Originally Posted by Fwarlord

I am not really sure if he deserved respect. His refusal of Ainz's offer could may well spell the death of all of his soldiers, the king he served and the entire kingdom. But look like he never considered this and just wanted to fight Ainz to satisfy his ego.

His life is dedicated completely to the king.. not for the kingdom and its people
If he betrayed the king, he'll become someone else
that's why he is honorable.. he is consistent until the end
when he entered the battlefield, he is already determined on giving his life to the king

[Fwarlord]

Originally Posted by ~Yami~

His life is dedicated completely to the king.. not for the kingdom and its people
If he betrayed the king, he'll become someone else
that's why he is honorable.. he is consistent until the end
when he entered the battlefield, he is already determined on giving his life to the king

But his actions could have angered Ainz and made him purge the entire kingdom, including the king. I am not sure if Gazef realized it though.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by ~Yami~

His life is dedicated completely to the king.. not for the kingdom and its people
If he betrayed the king, he'll become someone else
that's why he is honorable.. he is consistent until the end
when he entered the battlefield, he is already determined on giving his life to the king

Originally Posted by Fwarlord

But his actions could have angered Ainz and made him purge the entire kingdom, including the king. I am not sure if Gazef realized it though.

Gazef is what some would describe as "Stupidly Loyal".
His archetype exists in many cultures, but it appears to be extremely pronounced in Japanese culture in particular.

Fundamentally, what we have here is a person who is so Loyal, that he couldn't actually make the best choice for his sovereign. His Loyalty is literally more important than anything else, including the safety of the Kingdom he served.

And what I have discovered, is that Japan seem to culturally have a soft spot for characters like that. As in, the Japanese are very much aware that such characters are making a horrible mistake. There is no attempt to pretend it wasn't the wrong thing to do in the narrative. But all the same, there is a small amount of respect and pity for such characters who effectively dig their own graves.

Granted, Gazef is actually a rare example, who was serving a weak but decent king. More common would have been such a character being loyal to a BAD king, and who had every reason to betray his lord but refused to do so.

[moridin84]

Gazef serves the King, the kingdom and the people. In that order.

Ainz almost certainly wasn't going to spare the King, since he never made that offer even though he knew how important the King was to him.

The kingdom as it is has been destroyed, it will be whatever Ainz lets it be.

I'm not even going to argue about the people thing. To criticize Gazef for not trying to save people while glorifying Ainz who has killed tens of thousands, and in fact is the person threatening those very same people, is an absurd hypocrisy.

Plus in working for Ainz he would help him commit more and more atrocities since clearly, that is Ainz's preference.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by moridin84

Plus in working for Ainz he would help him commit more and more atrocities since clearly, that is Ainz's preference.

Despite what happened in secret in the Happy Farm, there was in fact no evidence that Ainz prefer committing atrocities, from the perspective of the in-universe population. Other than racially motivated profiling, that of assuming Ainz wants to destroy all life because he is undead, there is no evidence from the people observing him that it was anything close to what Ainz prefers.

I am fully aware of what is happening in secret and how bad it is. But you can't use evidence that isn't available, to make decisions.

[Dragon_Slayer_X]

People trying to justify unnecessary massacres and shitting on honor/loyalty..........no wonder the world has become a shitty place.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Despite what happened in secret in the Happy Farm, there was in fact no evidence that Ainz prefer committing atrocities, from the perspective of the in-universe population. Other than racially motivated profiling, that of assuming Ainz wants to destroy all life because he is undead, there is no evidence from the people observing him that it was anything close to what Ainz prefers.

I am fully aware of what is happening in secret and how bad it is. But you can't use evidence that isn't available, to make decisions.

Well, from the perspective of the Kingdom, most they know is that Ainz just killed 70.000 people at once, right after which 5 eldritch abominations appeard that massacred almost everyone else...

Though in turn Gazeff does also remember how Ainz actually saved an entire village of peasant humans as well as Gazeff and Gazeff didn't receive any news about the village being wiped out in the meantime.

You can see that despite now knowing that Ainz is undead, Gazeff at least still treats him as a "person" and not as a "monster". The fact that Gazeff can still act like that is probably one of the reasons he tried to recruit Gazeff, maybe use him to keep E-Rantel in check, since they might feel more comfortable with a trusted human around, who in turn isn't prejudiced against undead.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Gazef is what some would describe as "Stupidly Loyal".
His archetype exists in many cultures, but it appears to be extremely pronounced in Japanese culture in particular.

Fundamentally, what we have here is a person who is so Loyal, that he couldn't actually make the best choice for his sovereign. His Loyalty is literally more important than anything else, including the safety of the Kingdom he served.

And what I have discovered, is that Japan seem to culturally have a soft spot for characters like that. As in, the Japanese are very much aware that such characters are making a horrible mistake. There is no attempt to pretend it wasn't the wrong thing to do in the narrative. But all the same, there is a small amount of respect and pity for such characters who effectively dig their own graves.

Granted, Gazef is actually a rare example, who was serving a weak but decent king. More common would have been such a character being loyal to a BAD king, and who had every reason to betray his lord but refused to do so.

I think we should give Gazef more credit than simply that. It's never a good idea to join the evil side, and blackmailing the hero by telling him people would die otherwise is a very old trick Villains use to exploit the good nature of their enemy.

As Villains see the "caring about others" as nothing but a weakness, it comes natural to them to exploit it, and Ainz is falling on the trope perfectly in this instance.

In storytelling when a hero accepts that deal it's usually a very stupid move. It's generally the birth of a black guard that the protagonist will have to face, becoming a new evil that just causes more deaths and strife than would have happened if he had refused the deal.

Moreover Evil characters are generally untrustworthy. And while Ainz might very well honor his promise to spare those people right there at that moment, Gazef should know better than to trust an undead lord. Moreover Ainz plans to conquer the world so we know his killing spree isn't going to end anytime soon. Would it really be smart for Gazef to save a thousand soldiers only to help Ainz kill the next million?

But ultimately the difference in power is so wide that whatever Gazef chooses nothing will change, but if everything is lost he might as well just try a shot at his best and only option, not matter how desperate it is. It's still better than do nothing, or worse, to help what you want to stop.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

I think we should give Gazef more credit than simply that. It's never a good idea to join the evil side, and blackmailing the hero by telling him people would die otherwise is a very old trick Villains use to exploit the good nature of their enemy.

As Villains see the "caring about others" as nothing but a weakness, it comes natural to them to exploit it, and Ainz is falling on the trope perfectly in this instance.

In storytelling when a hero accepts that deal it's usually a very stupid move. It's generally the birth of a black guard that the protagonist will have to face, becoming a new evil that just causes more deaths and strife than would have happened if he had refused the deal.

Moreover Evil characters are generally untrustworthy. And while Ainz might very well honor his promise to spare those people right there at that moment, Gazef should know better than to trust an undead lord. Moreover Ainz plans to conquer the world so we know his killing spree isn't going to end anytime soon. Would it really be smart for Gazef to save a thousand soldiers only to help Ainz kill the next million?

But ultimately the difference in power is so wide that whatever Gazef chooses nothing will change, but if everything is lost he might as well just try a shot at his best and only option, not matter how desperate it is. It's still better than do nothing, or worse, to help what you want to stop.

I have no idea what made you think Ainz is trying to destroy the kingdom. All he asked for is a single town. And Gazef himself proposed that giving up the town would have been wise.

So you are saying he is fighting to the death to save his kingdom? No, all he is doing is fighting to the death defending a single town. A town that he himself proposed that they should give up on. He is dying not because it was the best decision, but because his king told him that is what he needed to do. He is dying because it was an order he had to obey, NOT because he is the only line of defence against the apocalypse.

You are badly mistaken, if you think this duel is about good vs evil. This is about a man being forced to die because his superiors rejected his proposal. He is dying for what he doesn't actually want.

[Yan3242]

People trying to justify unnecessary massacres and shitting on honor/loyalty..........no wonder the world has become a shitty place.

Omg chill, its anime, a film, an animation made by someone writing/imagination. We are not seeing a live report of world war 3 or something like that you know.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Dragon_Slayer_X

People trying to justify unnecessary massacres and shitting on honor/loyalty..........no wonder the world has become a shitty place.

I am not sure the death counts would be any lower without Ainz there. All he did was to end the battle early, it's not like the soldiers there are armed with wooden swords.

How many people do you think would die, if both sides actually fought each other the old fashioned way? Is it somehow BETTER to stab each other with swords? Is it any less senseless, since the entire point is to kill Kingdom solders as to make them weaker long term for Empire to absorb them?

If what Ainz did is senseless, then nothing else in their world makes sense either.