[Manga] Chapter 366 Discussion

[BlackDove]

We'll see next week, but I can see the whole thing going down something like this... this'll be pretty intricate, although unlikely, speculation, so you've been warned.

Spoiler:

Something that bothered me about the whole thing since another Sharingan user was introduced as being alive, was how the whole murder of the Uchiha clan went by without an experienced hand stopping it or even interfering. The whole talk of Madara being so fearsome that even Kyuubi knows him, and yet Itachi, a young boy, is the person that commits whole-family slaughter and leaves Sasuke behind, and has complete carte-blanche to get away with it, staying alive without that stronger user (be it Madara or whoever) neither agreeing or disagreeing with him. I'd think you'd go one way or the other after something like that happens.

I can kind of see Itachi painted as the good guy by the time this whole thing comes to a head. What if it wasn't Itachi at all who slaughtered the Uchiha clan, but someone pretending to be him? Sharingan means master of illusion. Sasuke being the only witness, who was a kid having serious shit performed on his mind, and that whole recollection scene where Itachi kills the family was always kind of surreal (plus we know after it he had Mangekyou performed on him immediatly). What if another Sharingan user (say, Madara) just pretended to be Itachi while Itachi was away busy with all the shit he had to do as the clan progeny, for someone else to impersonate him and commit wholesale slaughter of the clan, blaming him. Maybe someone who wasn't able to challenge him directly without sustaining serious injury after the hypothetical fight. So you turn the younger equal potential (Sasuke) into his enemy by igniting and fueling the flames of the fire to play the brothers against eachother, and in the end pick off whoever remains standing. Maybe not even that, maybe for another purpose alltogether we haven't even seen yet.

That'd make sense to me, and it'd add a whole other dimension to the story. After all, we don't really know what the fuck is going on when it comes to the Sharingan or its users, because whatever situation we are viewing as readers, could always be interperted wrong, since we're seeing it as an event taking place - not what may ACTUALLY be taking place. That whole "You need to kill your friend to obtain Mangekyou" we know is bullshit, since Kakashi developed a version of Amaterasu without killing anyone. And we don't really know if Shisui died by Itachi's hand at all. Itachi had that fit, but never really said "I killed Shisui". Shisui could've been offed by anyone with the Sharingan, especially someone who'd want to put the whole scheme in motion.

At any rate, fun idea to toy around with, where Itachi is actually a victim of false accusation instead of being an evil boy-mastermind.

[Quzor]

Originally Posted by BlackDove

We'll see next week, but I can see the whole thing going down something like this... this'll be pretty intricate, although unlikely, speculation, so you've been warned.

Spoiler:

A thing that bothered me about the whole thing since another Sharingan user was introduced as being alive, was how the whole murder of the Uchiha clan went by without an experienced hand stopping it or even interfering. The whole talk of Madara being so fearsome that even Kyuubi knows him, and yet Itachi, a young boy, is the person that commits whole-family slaughter and leaves Sasuke behind, and has complete carte-blanche to get away with it, staying alive without that stronger user (be it Madara or whoever) neither agreeing or disagreeing with him. I'd think you'd go one way or the other after something like that happens.

I can kind of see Itachi painted as the good guy by the time this whole thing comes to a head. What if it wasn't Itachi at all who slaughtered the Uchiha clan, but someone pretending to be him? Sharingan means master of illusion. Sasuke being the only witness, who was a kid having serious shit performed on his mind, and that whole recollection scene where Itachi kills the family was always kind of surreal (plus we know after it he had Mangekyou performed on him immediatly). What if another Sharingan user (say, Madara) just pretended to be Itachi while Itachi was away busy with all the shit he had to do as the clan progeny, for someone else to impersonate him and commit wholesale slaughter of the clan, blaming him. Maybe someone who wasn't able to challenge him directly without sustaining serious injury after the hypothetical fight. So you turn the younger equal potential (Sasuke) into his enemy by igniting and fueling the flames of the fire to play the brothers against eachother, and in the end pick off whoever remains standing. Maybe not even that, maybe for another purpose alltogether we haven't even seen yet.

That'd make sense to me, and it'd add a whole other dimension to the story. After all, we don't really know what the fuck is going on when it comes to the Sharingan or its users, because whatever situation we are viewing as readers, could always be interperted wrong, since we're seeing it as an event taking place - not what may ACTUALLY be taking place. That whole "You need to kill your friend to obtain Mangekyou" we know is bullshit, since Kakashi developed a version of Amaterasu without killing anyone. And we don't really know if Shisui died by Itachi's hand at all. Itachi had that fit, but never really said "I killed Shisui". Shisui could've been offed by anyone with the Sharingan, especially someone who'd want to put the whole scheme in motion.

At any rate, fun idea to toy around with, where Itachi is actually a victim of false accusation instead of being an evil boy-mastermind.

Wow...just wow...I never thought I'd appreciate a fan-based theory quite as much as I do this one. Both well thought out, and well explained.

Spoiler for manga:

I love the idea that Itachi has been painted to be a bad guy this whole time, while actually being completely innocent. It also makes the idea of Uchiha Madara seem far more sinister and interesting. I'm not putting the evil boy-mastermind thing beyond Itachi, but it is interesting to think of Itachi as the unfairly accused murderer of an entire clan. Especially since Itachi ignored Naruto so readily to run and speak with his brother, despite the fact that the malice and bloodlust lies within Sasuke's heart, and there appears to be no interest for Itachi to actually battle Sasuke, other than to test both his own power, and Sasuke's power.

Also interesting is the idea of the Mangekyou Sharingan. Funny that it would be called bullshit because we know Kakashi can use it, because his best friend did die. Even though he didn't kill him, Obito is still dead, and Kakashi was still his best friend. Perhaps, then, we can assume that it's not necessarily the person killing their best friend as much as it is the person knowing that their best friend is dead (say some sort of chakra port in the brain, once closed by the knowledge that they had a best friend alive and well, is suddenly snapped and broken open with the news of their death) that unlocks this ability. That being the case, even Naruto might not have to die for Sasuke to unleash the potential of this power. There are, both, so many holes and so many interesting ideas within this theory that it is difficult to explore its possibility in its entirety. Hopefully we'll find out a little more next week.

Ya know, in thinking about the idea I just brought up, a thought occurs. Could the new movie, in which Naruto, apparently dies, be a story heard, or dream had, by Sasuke which results in him unlocking the power of the Mangekyou Sharingan? Ooh...a new theory rears it's ugly head *prepares himself for the flames*

[chuckcsf]

Originally Posted by Quzor

Wow...just wow...I never thought I'd appreciate a fan-based theory quite as much as I do this one. Both well thought out, and well explained.

Spoiler for manga:

I love the idea that Itachi has been painted to be a bad guy this whole time, while actually being completely innocent. It also makes the idea of Uchiha Madara seem far more sinister and interesting. I'm not putting the evil boy-mastermind thing beyond Itachi, but it is interesting to think of Itachi as the unfairly accused murderer of an entire clan. Especially since Itachi ignored Naruto so readily to run and speak with his brother, despite the fact that the malice and bloodlust lies within Sasuke's heart, and there appears to be no interest for Itachi to actually battle Sasuke, other than to test both his own power, and Sasuke's power.

Also interesting is the idea of the Mangekyou Sharingan. Funny that it would be called bullshit because we know Kakashi can use it, because his best friend did die. Even though he didn't kill him, Obito is still dead, and Kakashi was still his best friend. Perhaps, then, we can assume that it's not necessarily the person killing their best friend as much as it is the person knowing that their best friend is dead (say some sort of chakra port in the brain, once closed by the knowledge that they had a best friend alive and well, is suddenly snapped and broken open with the news of their death) that unlocks this ability. That being the case, even Naruto might not have to die for Sasuke to unleash the potential of this power. There are, both, so many holes and so many interesting ideas within this theory that it is difficult to explore its possibility in its entirety. Hopefully we'll find out a little more next week.

Ya know, in thinking about the idea I just brought up, a thought occurs. Could the new movie, in which Naruto, apparently dies, be a story heard, or dream had, by Sasuke which results in him unlocking the power of the Mangekyou Sharingan? Ooh...a new theory rears it's ugly head *prepares himself for the flames*

Actually, I think...

Spoiler for ...:

... Itachi was forced to join Akatsuki to spare his brother's life. He is forcing his brother to get stronger than him because he knows Sauske has more potential so Sauske can defeat Tobi...

The whole story of Itachi sparing Sauske so he can test his real strength was all bull because if Itachi really wanted to test his strength, why not go after Tobi. You can say that he doesn't know about Tobi but he does. He did say that there was another Sharingan user with Mangekyo

[Nintendo]

first you all want Jiraiya dead, now you want itachi to be some great good guy.

this world has done mad.

[Quzor]

Originally Posted by chuckcsf

Actually, I think...

Spoiler for ...:

... Itachi was forced to join Akatsuki to spare his brother's life. He is forcing his brother to get stronger than him because he knows Sauske has more potential so Sauske can defeat Tobi...

The whole story of Itachi sparing Sauske so he can test his real strength was all bull because if Itachi really wanted to test his strength, why not go after Tobi. You can say that he doesn't know about Tobi but he does. He did say that there was another Sharingan user with Mangekyo

I think the real problem comes down to translation...can v. could... If Itachi said "that would bring the number of people who CAN use MS to 3," then we can assume another is alive. However, if the translation is "could use MS," then he could have assumed the 3rd person was dead.

Spoiler for manga:

Also, there is the possibility that he already knew Kakashi could use MS, which could mean he was referring to Kakashi as the 3rd, rather than Madara. It's all speculation, when you really boil it down.

[Luminion Lancer]

Originally Posted by Sinaura

It would be great if we saw Naruto adapt to a style of fighting specially with summon frogs like Jiraiyi for an arc; all the little nifty jutsus that Naruto could come up with when combining his own ninjutsu with that of the frogs. I know you want Kishi to pick a style for Naruto and stick with it, but if Kishi is just going to introduce different styles to Naruto and take them away just as easily, why not try this one out?

-In other words "Dabble in many but master none", right? To be honest I couldn't give a rat's ass what Kishimoto makes Naruto do next. Hell, I'll even accept him being the only person in his world to be able to defeat an opponent by summoning meteors out of that seemingly empty skull of his. All I am asking for is a little consistency. Look at Sasuke and Itachi. Their main source of combat prowess always was and always will be the Sharingan. Sasuke's style of combat changed very little and Itachi's hasn't changed at all. Well whatever it's Kishimoto's grave and not mine...

[Quzor]

Originally Posted by Nintendo

first you all want Jiraiya dead, now you want itachi to be some great good guy.

this world has done mad.

I don't want Jiraya dead, I want him alive...without him, what would Kakashi read!? As for Itachi being a good guy, I'm not against it, it'd be a great twist to a character generally assumed to be evil..what's wrong with that?

[Nintendo]

because i like him the bad guy

why cant one character that is shown to be evil, just stay evil.

even oro lost some of his evilness when he went to his parents grave.

[Kowai]

Originally Posted by Quzor

I don't want Jiraya dead, I want him alive...without him, what would Kakashi read!? As for Itachi being a good guy, I'm not against it, it'd be a great twist to a character generally assumed to be evil..what's wrong with that?

cuz a badass itachi is cool and badass
a good guy itachi is another sasuke
twists are ok but not one that DRASTICALLY changes a characters personality.
i would feel lied to and pissedo ff if itachi was good all along zzz
KISAME CALLED HIM RUTHLESS AND SAID IT WAS ODD TO SEE HIM CRY

[Quzor]

Originally Posted by Kowai

cuz a badass itachi is cool and badass
a good guy itachi is another sasuke
twists are ok but not one that DRASTICALLY changes a characters personality.
i would feel lied to and pissedo ff if itachi was good all along zzz
KISAME CALLED HIM RUTHLESS AND SAID IT WAS ODD TO SEE HIM CRY

I can appreciate that...but what about a role reversal? Following an epic Sharingan v. Sharingan battle, Itachi and Sasuke switch places, and now it's Itachi who is after Sasuke, and Sasuke who is after the goals of Akatsuki. This could also play well into the theory that Uchiha Madara (what/whoever he is) is after the strongest of the Sharingan users. If he is able to substitute Sasuke for Itachi as the more adept Sharingan user, it could add a new level of interest, both to Madara's interests, as well as to the whole "Naruto chasing Sasuke" situation...now Sasuke is after Naruto, Naruto is after Sasuke...think of the possibilities

[Kowai]

Originally Posted by Quzor

I can appreciate that...but what about a role reversal? Following an epic Sharingan v. Sharingan battle, Itachi and Sasuke switch places, and now it's Itachi who is after Sasuke, and Sasuke who is after the goals of Akatsuki. This could also play well into the theory that Uchiha Madara (what/whoever he is) is after the strongest of the Sharingan users. If he is able to substitute Sasuke for Itachi as the more adept Sharingan user, it could add a new level of interest, both to Madara's interests, as well as to the whole "Naruto chasing Sasuke" situation...now Sasuke is after Naruto, Naruto is after Sasuke...think of the possibilities

well i liek the idea of sasuke beign with akatsuki because akatsuki si the coolest group of super villains ever.
i dont liek the idea of itachi being cast aside and becomign as emo as sasuke, as cool fo a character itachi is id rather him die in a sweet fight than him be a pussy and we go in a sasuek emo loop again

[Sabaku Kyu]

Spoiler from Himajin this week, so no messing around with fakes.

And this spoiler was confirmed by the The Touch (for those of you who know who he is) so there's little doubt about whether it's real. But to be honest, if it weren't for those two facts, I'd think the spoiler was completely fake. It moves much faster than I expected.

Spoiler for chapter 367:

Nurupo
地雷やますます死亡フラグ
Jiraiya is getting closer to his death
綱手ゲロを吐く
Tsunade sighs (or maybe something else)
サスケｖｓイタチはサスケ先行の戦い
Sasuke vs Itachi, Sasuke starts the battle
イタチ「強くなったな・・・」
Itachi : You became stronger
で、逃げる
But, running away (????)
イタチ「一人でアジトに来い　そこで決着をつけさせてやる」
Itachi : Let's finish our conclusion in this hideout.
雨の中、地雷や暁アジトに潜入成功
In the rain (or maybe the Rain country), Jiraiya sneaks in the akatsuki hideout successfully
ペイン気付いた所で終わり
Pein notice him

note: I think the comment about Jiraiya getting closer to death is Himajin's opinion that Jiraiya will die and not literally mentioned in the story. 'Nurupo' is the way Himajin always spells 'Naruto'

[Itachi-evil]

Chapter 367 is entitled "loss" or?

Good bye Jiraiya i would say............

DOnt' think he can beat Pein, if Pein is really stronger than Itachi.

[Justice Knight]

maybe jiraiya is a spy for akatsuki....dont forget that sasori's jutsu[the 1 used on yuura] can be applied to any1 he likes.

[tatami]

jiraiya is not that kind of nin you know, he is one of the sannin.not to be tricked by a lame jutsu.

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Spoiler for spoiler:

Ok can someone help and explain this?

Pein + Partner were moving towards Naruto to capture him. The leader of Akatsuki (Tobi/Madara) is probably staying in the Rain Country...

So why would Jiraiya find Pein there? Besides...how can they meet eachother soo quick?? Jiraiya was moments ago in Konoha...in Tsunade's office.
At any rate...i cant imagine that Jiraiya dies without someone like Tsunade or Naruto having him in his arms...before saying his last important words.

Anyway i dont think Jiraiya will die in 1 chapter either...

[shaselai]

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

Ok can someone help and explain this?

Spoiler for spoiler:

Pein + Partner were moving towards Naruto to capture him. The leader of Akatsuki (Tobi/Madara) is probably staying in the Rain Country...

So why would Jiraiya find Pein there? Besides...how can they meet eachother soo quick?? Jiraiya was moments ago in Konoha...in Tsunade's office.
At any rate...i cant imagine that Jiraiya dies without someone like Tsunade or Naruto having him in his arms...before saying his last important words.

Anyway i dont think Jiraiya will die in 1 chapter either

Spoiler for spoiler:

Maybe pein will use Jiraiya as bait to get to Naruto and Kakashi.. Kakashi certainly doesn't want Jiraiya to die before completing the latest novel.

[tatami]

sounds so fake but it is confirmed...(i dunno who confirms tho)

[Big_Papi]

Originally Posted by shaselai

Spoiler for spoiler:

Maybe pein will use Jiraiya as bait to get to Naruto and Kakashi.. Kakashi certainly doesn't want Jiraiya to die before completing the latest novel.

]

Spoiler for spoiler:

And i dont see Jiraiya dieing anytime soon, i believe most of the next chapter is Itachi conversating with Sasuke about a few important things that he needs to know.

[/QUOTE]

[Kyu410]

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

Spoiler for spoiler:

Ok can someone help and explain this?

Pein + Partner were moving towards Naruto to capture him. The leader of Akatsuki (Tobi/Madara) is probably staying in the Rain Country...

So why would Jiraiya find Pein there? Besides...how can they meet eachother soo quick?? Jiraiya was moments ago in Konoha...in Tsunade's office.
At any rate...i cant imagine that Jiraiya dies without someone like Tsunade or Naruto having him in his arms...before saying his last important words.

Anyway i dont think Jiraiya will die in 1 chapter either...

In chapter 366 Jiraiya got information that states its hard to get around in the Rain village without giving out all your information. And the Rain village is currently at war so transportation is hard to manage. Thats why the Akatsuki made their hideout there(to protect themselves from being noticed). So Pein mustn't have gotten far enough to be able to leave the village.