Trump Tweets (no more)

[Applehell]

Honestly if Hillary had won she would just been Obama 2.0 whom of many of his polices she supported. She also had teh socially progressive platform in Democratic history particular regarding police reform, women's rights, gay rights etc so I have no idea where this no vision thing came from. It's why many minorities went for her instead of Bernie during the primaries who never bother address those issues who instead mainly focused on economic ones. Look how how many things the Trump Administration has gutted over pas 9 months, literally none things she would have done. That's not even getting to the damage the GOP will inflict in the future now that they have a conservative SCOTUS. Saying she wouldn't be bad as Trump is ridiculous, she is lightyears ahead of him as with almost any of the Dems.

It's the both sides nonsense that keep getting the country into this and the Left in a particular need to realize that is no such thing as perfect candidate nor as there ever been. Continuing to eat each other over that when the other sides has monsters does nobody else favors. Hilary isn't my favorite candidate either, both Bernie and she would have actually gotten US some progress one way or another instead of regressive policies that benefit nobody but rich. Any Dem should just voted for either one just be done with it. The primaries infighting when for far too long.

If your issues with her is that she made some questionable voting decisions so did Obama and Bernie, but former is still one of best US presidents we have had in history.

[Reckoner]

Bernie bro back at it again. Look, I actually think Hillary Clinton was an amazing candidate and person. Her tireless work over the years to advance the universal health care conversation and protections for families and especially children has been commendable. She had a firm grasp of our foreign policy situation, and deep policy knowledge on just about every issue you could think of. Was she perfect? No, but a lot of the criticisms of her come from the anti globalist fantasy living extremists and Russian trolls. Not to mention the immense sexism that is still prevalent in this country, racists, and an emboldened anti PC movement (because dumb college kids at Berkeley are a bigger issue than avoiding nuclear war with North Korea right?).

Hillary had an economic message. It just never broke through in this media environment where you have one guy irresponsibly promising paradise to all Americans with unpaid government universal health care, and free college, and in the other a guy bragging about sexual assault and scapegoating minorities for their economic woes. No, she was an actual responsible politician with responsible and tangible solutions to real problems. It wasn't sexy, but that's exactly what is needed in our political system. Someone who actually tries to understand the fundamental problem at hand and doesn't make bogus claims about what is possible (see republicans and their ACA repeal debacle efforts).

So no, I don't agree with anyone here saying she had no vision for the country. She was the only responsible adult in that election and her greatest flaw may have been that she was never as charming as say her husband in the campaign trail, but damn do I wish she was able to be President right now. Americans who stayed home in 2016 instead of voting are still worse to me than your MAGA racists parading around, at least they understand the importance of voting for the country they want to live in.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Eisdrache

We're talking about the election so we're talking in that context.

Not really. Plenty of people claimed, and keep claiming, that Hillary's bad enough, independently of her awkward campaigning, that somehow not voting for her when she faced Trump is understandable. Well, it's not. Not to me.

Hillary's campaign had no vision, failed to connect with many who previously voted for Obama, hardly inspired Bernie's followers even after he campaigned for her, never managed to lessen her image of being a paid New York insider above the law, and her messages throughout the whole time were decent enough in itself but barely memorable.

Sure there was Comey and the emails but it doesn't change that Hillary was on a disastrous course long before that came to light. Nobody objectively doubts that she was 'more qualified' for the job than Trump but as said before, that's not a high bar to overcome. It simply doesn't ring with voters when your main appeal for presidency is that you're better than the other candidate.

I have mostly unflattering thoughts about people who'd let the "campaign" aspect decide so much. Especially considering Trump's.

To reuse the restaurant metaphor, the choice really was between a turd sandwich and something badly marketed, bland, not really healthy, but ultimately pretty edible, as American politics go.

Originally Posted by ganbaru

Ro answer your question more directly, she herself isn't the worse politician ( not a good of but still better than a Ted Cruz) but her influence on the Democrate party have a large responsibility for how low the party have fallen. If she isn't outright corrupt (legally, US corruption laws are a joke now) she had show herself to be highly influenced by corporate and private political contribution (and maybe even by foreing donation to the Clinton charity but it's a harder case to make) and acted to such way.

There a shitload of Republican than are worse (and some Democrate as well) than her, heck Trump is looking like he have most of her tares but even stronger and some more. She wasn't the worse politician but most of them don't have the impact than she had, nor did try to get elected President.

So her faults, while nothing unusual, were magnified by her importance? That's... a point.

Originally Posted by Akuma Kousaka

Let me unpack this for everyone

She voted for the Iraq War, waging an offensive against a country that did not attack America, minimum 100k civilian casualties, and destabilizing the region to lead to the power vacuum from which ISIS arose

She voted for the Patriot Act which overrided 4th Amendment rights

Supported NAFTA and deregulation of Wall Street, the former depressing the factory towns who did vote for Obama but would not vote for Hillary. The latter gifting former president George W. Bush an explosive that he detonated into the great recession

She was one of the last Democrats to support gay marriage, in 2013. It is worth nothing her attitude towards the subject prior to then

She supported TPP 45 times, which would have been a NAFTA repeat

She also supported fracking around the world

And none of that sounds egregiously bad, as far as American politicians go.

[Akito Kinomoto]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

And none of that sounds egregiously bad, as far as American politicians go.

I should amend the point of the Iraq War with the observation that she also wanted to install a No-Fly Zone in Syria, potentially escalating into WWIII with Russia. I am glad you had the intellectual honesty to bring up how this is not particularly egregious in terms of American politicians, though I would venture a step further to cite establishment politicians in general. It is also worth noting how the grassroots wing of the Democratic party has slowly started to take over or influence congress with groups like Justice Democrats, National Nurses United, Our Revolution, and so on; the current momentum for medicare for all highlights this assertion

@ Reckoner I commend your passion for the electoral process, and one of the things Justice Democrats' platform is election reform to include 3rd parties, and I do not imagine they are against changing the electoral college either (as coming out with more votes and still losing is not a system I fundamentally agree with)

[Archon_Wing]

We all know presidential ability should be judged by the ability to deal with flying shoes.

Trump should have been tested imo

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...odged-it-best/

[Blueknight78]

lol
and the "awesome trump" did it again, he goes to poerto rico just to make what already crap bee even worst with his "awesome words of KINDNESS

http://theweek.com/speedreads/728547...e-like-katrina

"I hate to tell you, Puerto Rico, but you're throwing our budget out of whack,"

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/03/po...ico/index.html

"Every death is a horror, but if you look at a real catastrophe like Katrina, and you look at the tremendous — hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people that died, and you look at what happened here, with really a storm that was just totally overpowering, nobody's ever seen anything like this. What is your death count as of this moment? 17? 16 people certified, 16 people versus in the thousands. You can be very proud of all of your people and all of our people working together. Sixteen versus literally thousands of people. You can be very proud. Everybody around this table and everybody watching can really be very proud of what's taken place in Puerto Rico."

no doubts which trump is really unique and never be forgotten too soon... as the madman of WH the big USA national embarrassemt.

the island must be really proud of they 16 deaths, a totally destroyed islando, needing food, water, eletricity and many things and peoples desperated without they homes and all the crap, be really proud puerto rico, cuz trump is proud of you!!!!!!.

nothing is so bad which trump can't make worst

[Solace]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I'm asking what makes her specially bad. That isn't fake news or old conspiracy theory.

As a politician, she is certainly better than any of the conservative candidates, at least in terms of civil rights, but that's not saying much. She is rather hawkish on foreign policy and deeply tied to wealthy corporate interests, and she's never really shown otherwise in her career. Personally I don't think her four-eight years as President would have amounted to much, except we'd still be getting stuck in foreign wars and still increasing that income gap. What few victories she might have wrested from the GOP would have been hailed, certainly, but the reality is that we don't live in a world where the system "just needs some tweaks".

I know Reckoner's position because I see it from many liberals like him. There's nothing wrong with their opinion that she would have been a good President, but the attitude toward liberals who didn't support her rubs me wrong. I supported Bernie and I still do. I don't believe the current situation America finds itself in lends well to the pure centrism that the Democrats have embodied since they ditched Progressive Era politics back in the late 60's. I don't agree with all of Bernie's positions but I definitely admire his vision and passion. I don't believe anything he promised was impossible and I think the nation is largely on his side in terms of policy desires.

But if it had been Hillary as President, would I be mad? No.

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by Solace

I know Reckoner's position because I see it from many liberals like him. There's nothing wrong with their opinion that she would have been a good President, but the attitude toward liberals who didn't support her rubs me wrong. I supported Bernie and I still do. I don't believe the current situation America finds itself in lends well to the pure centrism that the Democrats have embodied since they ditched Progressive Era politics back in the late 60's. I don't agree with all of Bernie's positions but I definitely admire his vision and passion. I don't believe anything he promised was impossible and I think the nation is largely on his side in terms of policy desires.

But if it had been Hillary as President, would I be mad? No.

I don't care if people supported her, it's more that there was a responsible choice to make as an adult in the general election and people (not you) abdicated their duty as citizens. That's what annoys me.

I know you and others were disappointed with Barack Obama and what you saw was a capitulation to the donor class of America. Whether it be on real Wall Street reforms, health care, the military industrial complex, or what have you... There's a real conversation to be had there, but to me it doesn't start with an intellectually dishonest premise. Government provided universal health care isn't something we can just do without consequences but Sanders always made it seem like an easy thing to do and never really explained very well how it would be paid for.

I'm all for dreaming big, and maybe Hillary could have made a more bold policy proposal (She was actually floating the idea of basic income according to her in interviews recently before election), but I think there's something to be said that no matter how left a position she staked someone like Sanders would have gone further. Where does that ultimately leave us if you campaign on a bunch of things that can never actually pass congress?

[Solace]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

I don't care if people supported her, it's more that there was a responsible choice to make as an adult in the general election and people (not you) abdicated their duty as citizens. That's what annoys me.

I share that frustration, but this has been a problem since the 1990s when the new generation of Republicans swept into power. Election after election has seen Democrats doing....stuff?....while the Republicans continue to eat into their numbers. This is now the weakest the Democrats have been in almost a hundred years. Most of that loss came in the last two decades. That's incredible (and scary) to think about. The worst part is they don't seem to be taking it very seriously.

Truth is, adults are idiots. We're really bad at that whole responsibility thing.

I know you and others were disappointed with Barack Obama and what you saw was a capitulation to the donor class of America. Whether it be on real Wall Street reforms, health care, the military industrial complex, or what have you... There's a real conversation to be had there, but to me it doesn't start with an intellectually dishonest premise. Government provided universal health care isn't something we can just do without consequences but Sanders always made it seem like an easy thing to do and never really explained very well how it would be paid for.

I don't think Bernie was being dishonest or claiming it was easy to do. But offering proposals is difficult. Like with Obamacare, the devil is in the details. You're talking about one of the biggest changes to the underlying structure of the country in its history, completely replacing the current medical industry, public and private. There's no way that's going to be easy. But Obamacare wasn't a health care reform act. It was an insurance reform act. In terms of increasing access and affordability, it's had some success because there's been nothing like it before. But healthcare is still incredibly expensive in the US, and if one party is fighting constantly to remove what little assistance exists, the other party should be countering at every step that we can and should at least meet the standards of every other industrial nation.

I'm all for dreaming big, and maybe Hillary could have made a more bold policy proposal (She was actually floating the idea of basic income according to her in interviews recently before election), but I think there's something to be said that no matter how left a position she staked someone like Sanders would have gone further. Where does that ultimately leave us if you campaign on a bunch of things that can never actually pass congress?

As long as the GOP controls Congress, nothing good will rarely pass. Bernie entered the race to push her left, but I think he left mostly satisfied with his influence on the platform. The problem is ultimately that her messaging was poor. For all of the money and influence she had, she had very little control over the media and it showed.

Personally I think the biggest culprit for Trump's Presidency is the media itself. They gave him an extreme amount of airtime to the point that it choked out every other candidate, then they inserted themselves into the election whenever he said something dumb (oh noes, poor Anderson Cooper and Megan Kelly were offended!), and finally when he did win, they march right into "Russia fake news happened but we're the real deal, trust us!" Bleh.

There's so many layers that have created these problems. Unfortunately few people want to peel them back.

[SeijiSensei]

Is it possible that we might have a moratorium on re-litigating the last election?

[Solace]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

Is it possible that we might have a moratorium on re-litigating the last election?

Probably not when the guy who won tweets like a drunk man who called the wrong number accidentally but won't hang up.

Anyway, yeah this particular thread of discussion is done for now. Everyone's had their say I think.

[Blueknight78]

hmm another awesome act from the awesome trump, now for the womans
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/06/he...ate/index.html
looks like trumps war over obamacare gonna keep happening, if he can't beat it on congress he gonna beat it slowly by mining him on small "cuts" and that one gonna hurta a lot womans.

[monir]

Donnie tweets:

Late Night host are dealing with the Democrats for their very "unfunny" & repetitive material, always anti-Trump! Should we get Equal Time?

More and more people are suggesting that Republicans (and me) should be given Equal Time on T.V. when you look at the one-sided coverage?

Is he right? Does he need more TV time?

[Key Board]

Fox News not enough for him?

[monir]

Originally Posted by Key Board

Fox News not enough for him?

But the thing is, he IS getting coverage in those late night tv shows. They are all talking about him non-stop.

[Anh_Minh]

When he says "more and more people", is it the usual him, himself and he?

[Ithekro]

That depends, how many personalities does he have now?

[Galaxian]

Trump about Senator Corker (R) in 3 tweets:

Senator Bob Corker "begged" me to endorse him for re-election in Tennessee. I said "NO" and he dropped out (said he could not win without my endorsement). He also wanted to be Secretary of State, I said "NO THANKS." He is also largely responsible for the horrendous Iran Deal! Hence, I would fully expect Corker to be a negative voice and stand in the way of our great agenda. Didn't have the guts to run!

Senator Corker's responds:

It's a shame the White House has become an adult day care center. Someone obviously missed their shift this morning.

[Toukairin]

Whoa! Get rekt, Donald!

[The Green One]

It's a shame the White House has become an adult day care center. Someone obviously missed their shift this morning.

I think this sums up the White House quite accurately.