(L) Dragon Ball Super

[RDNexus]

So...has anyone found out what was the supposed "surprise" in store with this final episode?

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

I'm still baffled by the entire series. All the villains range from mediocre to outright bad; powerups don't feel epic anymore; writing is a big step down and there's no solid and genuine thrill or tension whatsoever and everything feels cheap and throwaway. The DB/DBZ magic is just gone. At the end of the day, one of the few things I'm grateful about Super is that it actually gives Mai more character (and a boyfriend in Trunks ). I always pity her (and her fox partner) ever since her first appearance in DB manga since she was continuously getting shitted on working under the scummy Pilaf. It's like the whole universe committed to make her suffer despite not being so bad or so evil. It's nice seeing her getting a break in Super (especially after the series tried so hard to redeem the unredeemable Frieza).

Originally Posted by justavisitor

Overall, can't ask more from this series. We are so fortunate to be able to watch the new dragonall show in 2018, and the show has been getting better and better towards the end. I just feel I am blessed XD

Oh boy, I can ask a lot more from Super, especially better writing and execution.

[rladls2121]

Now this leaves Cell.
Frieza is alive and well, still leading his own Empire.
Good Buu is living happily with Mr Satan.
Kid Buu reborn as Uub.
But what about Cell?

[Seafoam]

Cell is more irredeemable than Frieza. Frieza just wanted power and control, but Cell was a maniac who decided his existence was to just destroy everything. That's not even God of Destruction material. I don't really see any way to justify his actions, Super at least was building up to the Frieza thing from the very start with the information that Beerus was sort of his boss.

[DemonneoPT]

I'm glad that since Trunks' arc, Toei started to improve the quality of Super's episodes and artstyle. The last fight between Goku and co vs Jiren would not be so entertaining without proper care. I had the old DBZ vibe from it which made me happy af. Looks like it happened the same to those crazy and passionate mexican fans that watched the last episodes in public large screens like people usually do with important football matches...lol. It was a beautiful scene to watch indeed.

That said, this anime could have been so much better, but i guess having the author and the studio producers clashing ideas against each other can only lead to dubious results. I was never a big fan of SSJGod and that awful blue hair. Ultra Instinct was lit tho. The lack of care regarding powerlevels that even made Fairy Tail look good was also a big let down from this show. Having fillers isntead of exploring universe 6 characters to make their power seem more acceptable was a blatant miss opportunity too. I can only hope Toei and co will improve their writting in the sequel. Looking forward for the upcoming movie tho. The animation seems very fluid. Hype

[DragonOsman]

@Kanon: Oh, so it was three months? I wasn't paying much attention to anything going on when the opening song played in the middle of the episode, so pardon me about that.

But yeah, now that you mention it, Goku really would have needed to go to Namek to try to wish Frieza back to life. I wonder if he'd realized that himself.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by xeviouses

Though this does make Vegeta a little stronger than Goku by virtue of having an SSB2 form.

Royal Blue is his answer to SSBKK.

Originally Posted by xrick

So...has anyone found out what was the supposed "surprise" in store with this final episode?

That somehow the poachers that Android 17 fought over the years to reach god tier were mopped up by Goten and Kid Trunks in under an hour while being below SSJ2 tier, allowing him to go on a vacation with his family in peace?

[Mad Pierrot]

Now that I think about it, Trunks' arc might be the best of Super because there was actually a threat in contrast to the tournament

[Kyero Fox]

Originally Posted by Mad Pierrot

Now that I think about it, Trunks' arc might be the best of Super because there was actually a threat in contrast to the tournament

Did it really? Everyone knew Zamasu was gonna die. lol

[Mad Pierrot]

Originally Posted by Kyero Fox

Did it really? Everyone knew Zamasu was gonna die. lol

He dies but at the very end due to Zennoh. Vegetto and Trunks only manage to make weaken but Zamasu still destroyed Trunks' world. The first tournament had no threat on Goku and friends as the only worrying about the result was Beerus. Now the second tournament was just a test like you said earlier so there was just fake drama.

Also,

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by Mad Pierrot

He dies but at the very end due to Zennoh. Vegetto and Trunks only manage to make weaken but Zamasu still destroyed Trunks' world. The first tournament had no threat on Goku and friends as the only worrying about the result was Beerus. Now the second tournament was just a test like you said earlier so there was just fake drama.

Also,

i think you are "taking too serious dragon ball" the only time where things really got dark in this serie was really zammasu arc" and even that in the end future trunk and may had they "half happy ending" cuz overal db aways was like that, a bad guy come kill some peoples, goku and his friend defeat him then use dragon balls to ressurect everyone and we get a "happy ending" aways was like that and this arc not was different and basically everyone was "calling that end" with all the universes being restored, it was the most obvious and predictable ending ever, specially when some characters like the universes 6 sayans get so much love from fans, they could not really get ride of that "possible money cash".

PS: lol on that "marge jiren".

[alex_drian]

The problem was never of Dragon Ball and their writing, the problem is ourselves that we have grown.

[Sixth]

Originally Posted by xrick

So...has anyone found out what was the supposed "surprise" in store with this final episode?

It is either Whis can revive people at his will or they let Frieza go away for REAL or Goku and Frieza teamed up.

[vietthai96]

We get used to DB/DBZ too much, even GT follow the same patern. But when DBS come out and take the same step. We get tired of the same thing that DB/DBZ/DBGT does over and over. That why we start criticize DBS. But actually DBS while follow the patern, has it own unique like Beerus and Zamasu, the problem is our standard now is far higher than us many years ago, when i rewatch DBZ, every tension/magic i feel back then become nothingness

[Sixth]

Originally Posted by vietthai96

We get used to DB/DBZ too much, even GT follow the same patern. But when DBS come out and take the same step. We get tired of the same thing that DB/DBZ/DBGT does over and over. That why we start criticize DBS. But actually DBS while follow the patern, has it own unique like Beerus and Zamasu, the problem is our standard now is far higher than us many years ago, when i rewatch DBZ, every tension/magic i feel back then become nothingness

Agreed. DBS is actually have a world building and new lore which is GT lacks of. GT is just recycling everything from DBZ with a pallete swap.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by vietthai96

We get used to DB/DBZ too much, even GT follow the same patern. But when DBS come out and take the same step. We get tired of the same thing that DB/DBZ/DBGT does over and over. That why we start criticize DBS. But actually DBS while follow the patern, has it own unique like Beerus and Zamasu, the problem is our standard now is far higher than us many years ago, when i rewatch DBZ, every tension/magic i feel back then become nothingness

I don't know about that. I recently read the Saiyan arc, Frieza arc & Cell arc again and they age rather well especially if you realized that DB manga is one of the earliest in shonen-fighting genre.

Saiyan, Frieza and Cell arcs are mostly different from each other:

• During the Saiyan arc, the protags are mostly anticipating terrors that's coming from outer space to invade Earth. The arc plays like 1950s alien-invasion movies (only with super-powered martial arts instead of scientific weapons). But instead of a horde of aliens in flying saucers clashing with Earth's military forces, we get two super-powered alien martial artists against Terran (mostly) martial artists.
  
• The Frieza arc mostly plays like Star Trek or Buck Rogers-style of space adventure and it also borrows some elements from Jules Verne's adventure stories (only with more focus on super-powered martial arts instead of scientific weapons) where our protags are playing cat and mouse with Frieza and his army and the final fight with Frieza is like the first definition of hype partly due to the Super Saiyan mode that we saw for the first time.
  
• During the Cell arc, we get a Terminator-esque time-travel story with Cell as the Terminator and Trunks being the Kyle Reese of the story (only with super-powered martial arts instead of scientific weapons). And instead of killing John Connor, Cell's goal is to absorb android 16, 17 & 18 to become perfect and invincible. There's some real suspense during the cell arc, especially when he's hunting the androids and our protags are trying to prevent it (honorable mention to when the protags are hunting Android 19 & 20 and Goku is being sick. It's just as suspenseful). And the Cell Game at the end of the arc is amusing as hell.

Those three arcs are the peak of the franchise precisely because it's a well-written martial art fantasy with real tension, real suspense and real thrills for kids & teenage entertainment. The manga works a lot better than the terribly-paced anime.

After that, it's going downhill from there since they start to turn everything into a joke and the power-level is starting to get out of hand. I still like the Buu arc but obviously not as much as the previous arcs.

PS: I like all the comedy during the time when Goku was still a little kid with teenage Bulma and they went into a "Journey to the West"-style of adventure while fighting the Red Ribbon armies. But from the Buu arc onwards, I feel like the comedy dragged the story down so much.

[DragonOsman]

When is the new Dragon Ball Z movie coming out? Anyone know? Also, is about the origin of the Saiyans or was that a misunderstanding? Maybe there's going to be another movie about Yamoshi if the upcoming movie doesn't have anything about him.

[Mad Pierrot]

What I meant with my previous comment is that Super feels a lot more lighthearted than both the original and Z (except Trunks' arc).

In the original, the story started becoming darker with the Red Ribbon arc when Tao Pai Pai murdered a man and nearly killed Goku. For the climax of this arc, there was an entire clipshow of all the chaos made by them. Then we had the Piccolo arc which started with Krillin's first death, Roshi and Chiaotzu with Goku wishing to get revenge like nothing.

In Z, we already had a lot of deaths in Nappa's fight while Vegeta was so furious that he tried destorying the planet with an attack. In Namek, we probably had the darkest story arc with all Namekians being killed with even children. There wasn't much chaos in the Androids arc other than the way 16 and Gero died. Finally, the entire Earth population disappeared in a single episode from the Buu arc and in the climax I can clearly remember Vegeta saying "Then the whole universe is going to die!!"

And I was taking it too seriously? Super was far more lighthearted with the exceptions I already mentioned. Still, that doesn't mean I didn't like the series. I just pointed out the series more lighthearted considering there were no risks with Beerus and Zennohs' decisions.

When is the new Dragon Ball Z movie coming out?

I think it's December but for now the title is "Dragon Ball Super"

[Vegard Aune]

Originally Posted by Mad Pierrot

I just pointed out the series more lighthearted considering there were no risks with Beerus and Zennohs' decisions.

The only arc of Super where nothing of importance was at stake was the tournament between Universe 6 and Universe 7.
-Beerus arc: Beerus was still an extremely volatile and unpredictable character who can and will blow up the planet at the slightest provocation.
-Shiny Freeza arc: Freeza.
-Zamasu arc: Zamasu.
-Universe Survival arc: Through the entire thing you had the looming threat of "Loss = Your entire universe ceases to exist", and while that was ultimately undone at the end (you know, like it always is except in the Zamasu arc), they also quite plainly stated there at the end that if the winner had made a selfish wish, their universe would also have gotten wiped out. So if, say, Goku and #17 had been the ones to knock Jiren off leaving Freeza as the last man standing... gg, everybody dies because there's not a snowball's chance in hell that Freeza would have wished for anything other than his own revival.

[vietthai96]

It just that DBS focus more on the main thing than environment damage, casualties.
Well Super Saiyan Goku is the iconic symbol of DBZ, so i think Akira want Super Saiyan Blue Goku is iconic symbol of DBS, that why he recycle the design. SSJ Goku vs Final Form Frieza is the iconic battle of DBZ, so i think he want to do the same with SSJB Goku vs Golden Frieza. Well a kind of bring back the old feeling. Well aside from that i don't have any problem with DBS, Zamasu arc is dark enough, too dark or story at the level of Fate Stay Night, Guilty Crown,..... is never fit with a series like DB. DB is a straightforward, plain simple but enjoyable series, and atleast we need to praise DBS for it effort to atleast make some character deeper, but too deep will just make DBS into another type of anime, not the DB we known.