Madoka Magica - General Discussion

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by xizro345

Speaking from an EU point of view I have to say the pattern is different from US. In several EU sites/blogs I know Madoka was slammed for not being too "daring" for example. I'm sure US mainstream anime sites will stick with the "moe" stuff (especially the most famous one I'm not going to mention).

A famous french anime magazine have written a Madoka article. To put it, the journalist's arguments were suspiciously like the greek guy who came here to show contempt for the show. In other words, it is the same old "But vintage anime aired in 197/8X have done that before!" and he did not develop further than that. Oh, and I should add that he implied that it is vapid moe shit where the main draw is to see the horrible things happening to the core cast. It was just half-assed and clearly showing that he did not really pay attention to the show.

[sa547]

Originally Posted by Sheba

A famous french anime magazine have written a Madoka article. To put it, the journalist's arguments were suspiciously like the greek guy who came here to show contempt for the show. In other words, it is the same old "But vintage anime aired in 197/8X have done that before!" and he did not develop further than that. Oh, and I should add that he implied that it is vapid moe shit where the main draw is to see the horrible things happening to the core cast. It was just half-assed and clearly showing that he did not really pay attention to the show.

LOL, those snobs and wannabes must've been weaned on too much Miyazaki and other "high art" anime... seems Madoka brought out their true colors. I wish totoum has read the article in question and then blast them with an email for their stuffy ignorance.

I think the staff of the now-defunct Anime Insider did a better job writing while trying to keep a balanced view.

[kaigan]

Originally Posted by brocko

This is my best run for that incubator game. I've never been able to get relatively close ever since lol



I forgot to take a screenshot of the tombstone page though, so we'll never know the exact details of all the farmed shoujo's

in the looping mode, i wonder what special thing does tandem homu and *kaname do? does *kaname turn to a special witch? and do those uberstrong spectre give grief seeds too?

[Snork]

A famous french anime magazine have written a Madoka article. To put it, the journalist's arguments were suspiciously like the greek guy who came here to show contempt for the show. In other words, it is the same old "But vintage anime aired in 197/8X have done that before!" and he did not develop further than that. Oh, and I should add that he implied that it is vapid moe shit where the main draw is to see the horrible things happening to the core cast. It was just half-assed and clearly showing that he did not really pay attention to the show.

I think he was one of those hype fighters miffed at how Madoka was praised for innovations.
As Bri noted, Madoka may not turn out to be a necessary game changer, and as I already said myself, I certainly don't expect most magical girl shows to be grimdark from now on. What Madoka is famous for is not reimagining the genre (in a way, Nanoha went further in this aspect), but reconsidering it. The innovations are centered around a system that contrasts with conventional systems and procedures of miracles and magic. It was done before? As the saying goes, "the new is in fact the well-forgotten old". Whatever that vintage anime did a quarter of a century ago, it doesn't seem to have been appreciated enough to shape up the genre. Maybe Madoka won't do it either, but the point is that the idea was picked up eventually and met the demands of the audience. Besides, I bet that Madoka managed to pull off some details (graphics, music, sound, script elements) better than it was possible back in old times. Leonardo projected a lot of flying machines, but those who created planes centuries later are hardly to be denied the right of innovation just because they reinvented the idea and managed to actually realize some things (not a perfect comparison here, but you get the idea).

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Sheba

It was just half-assed and clearly showing that he did not really pay attention to the show.

Half-assed? More like zero-assed if what I read on a forum is true

Going by reactions on forums to the article , it's quoted as saying "nothing much happened during 12 episodes"
The best part of that quote is that this was said in a review that was published before episodes 11 and 12 came out,showing that no matter what the episodes could have had in them the reviewer's mind was already made up.

Anyway thanks for reminding me of why I never read that magazine.

[Snork]

it's quoted as saying "nothing much happened during 12 episodes"
The best part of that quote is that this was said in a review that was published before episodes 11 and 12 came out

Oh lawd. Might have as well written the whole review based on the CMs.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by totoum

Half-assed? More like zero-assed if what I read on a forum is true

Going by reactions on forums to the article , it's quoted as saying "nothing much happened during 12 episodes"

Having actually read it in a public library, I can tell you that the content, or rather lack of, raised my eyebrows. This is the same magazine who had made a long article about Shinbo in the previous issue. Something about his techniques and choice of animating material.

The best part of that quote is that this was said in a review that was published before episodes 11 and 12 came out,showing that no matter what the episodes could have had in them the reviewer's mind was already made up.

The writer on the forums admitted that he have gotten the rest of his impressions from reading on forums and blogs. Doesn't that modus operandi sound familiar? However, to give him some credit, he recognized that, after talking with various people from the amateur scene, he is kinda regretting it.

Anyway thanks for reminding me of why I never read that magazine.

I think that somewhere down the over 15 years it went professional, it lost its passion, its flame should I say. There was passion in the article about evangelion back when Japan was recovering from the cultural nuke that Gainax have dropped on them, there was passion and slight reproach in the article about Rin Tarou's X movie. But in the more recent years, it felt like it is less talking about anime anime, but more about buttering up the french DVD or manga publishers for a better paycheck.

This article, well. I really did not have much problem with the writer giving negative criticism against Madoka. I have a problem with the form and the content. Instead of adressing where Madoka failed and how, objectively (which is why I think that the two reviews of the two people I won't name have failed to do). This IS what I would have liked to read. I can understand the rage against Infinite Stratos, I can understand why some people are resentful toward Naruto and Bleach. But please, the "X anime aired in 197/8/9X have done that before!" is NOT an argument, and a kitten dies each time someone pull the "Evangelion is a bad series, Ideon did what Eva did before and way better." card. Critics or wannabe-critics should adress the problems within the show itself so I can understand and accept.

Originally Posted by Snork

I think he was one of those hype fighters miffed at how Madoka was praised for innovations.
As Bri noted, Madoka may not turn out to be a necessary game changer, and as I already said myself, I certainly don't expect most magical girl shows to be grimdark from now on. What Madoka is famous for is not reimagining the genre (in a way, Nanoha went further in this aspect), but reconsidering it. The innovations are centered around a system that contrasts with conventional systems and procedures of miracles and magic. It was done before? As the saying goes, "the new is in fact the well-forgotten old". Whatever that vintage anime did a quarter of a century ago, it doesn't seem to have been appreciated enough to shape up the genre. Maybe Madoka won't do it either, but the point is that the idea was picked up eventually and met the demands of the audience. Besides, I bet that Madoka managed to pull off some details (graphics, music, sound, script elements) better than it was possible back in old times. Leonardo projected a lot of flying machines, but those who created planes centuries later are hardly to be denied the right of innovation just because they reinvented the idea and managed to actually realize some things (not a perfect comparison here, but you get the idea).

Which I can agree with.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Solace

Anyway, if they do decide to make a spinoff of Madoka with the same characters, and not a serious direct sequel (Madoka Resurrection!), I'd love to see something akin to Full Metal Panic Fomuffu. Who wouldn't want to see stalker Homu animated?

That would be glorious. I've seen so much stalker Homuhomu fanarts that that side of her personality feels as canon to me as her personality in the show

[xizro345]

Originally Posted by Sheba

I think that somewhere down the over 15 years it went professional, it lost its passion, its flame should I say. There was passion in the article about evangelion back when Japan was recovering from the cultural nuke that Gainax have dropped on them, there was passion and slight reproach in the article about Rin Tarou's X movie. But in the more recent years, it felt like it is less talking about anime anime, but more about buttering up the french DVD or manga publishers for a better paycheck.

You don't need "passion", just will to do your job decently. Doing that would mean giving a fair view of stuff like Madoka, without excessively praising it or bashing it. But at least it survives, as well as the French market (which is a place were Madoka may end up in if a miracle happens). And you still have articles like this one to discuss... I can't say the same for other EU countries (including the one I live in).
But for me, Madoka is more than execution done right than innovation. If you look at the story as it is without any of Gen's twists, it's pretty much simple and nothing particular. It's the execution that works well, despite some shortcomings (Madoka's characterization, despite the reason offered in episode 10 and the buildup in the episodes feels spotty nevertheless).

[applejuice]

So those French reviewers are basically twisting this claim;

'Japanese has bad taste!!!'

Nah, Japanese has the best taste.

[mols]

Originally Posted by Sheba

A famous french anime magazine have written a Madoka article. To put it, the journalist's arguments were suspiciously like the greek guy who came here to show contempt for the show. In other words, it is the same old "But vintage anime aired in 197/8X have done that before!" and he did not develop further than that. Oh, and I should add that he implied that it is vapid moe shit where the main draw is to see the horrible things happening to the core cast. It was just half-assed and clearly showing that he did not really pay attention to the show.

I also live in Europe, more precisely in a French speaking region in Belgium. I can't say the same for other countries (e.g. Germany, Luxembourg...) but here in Belgium and in France I have found that critical reviews are gone. Dead. I am not talking about manga/anime reviews because I haven't read any in French. But I have read reviews about books, movies and TV series and what I have found, is a lack of criticism.

Just as you are saying, in most cases they just say that it is a bad piece of work or an excellent piece, but never analyze why they say that.
Even worse, they openly praise some works because they are done by someone they adore, without ever analyzing the work itself.

It is a real pity. That is why I prefer reviews in English and Spanish. You can find more reviews in those languages.

I might sound harsh, but it really was a shock when I moved here. And make no mistake, I always try to be fair.

Originally Posted by Snork

I think he was one of those hype fighters miffed at how Madoka was praised for innovations.
As Bri noted, Madoka may not turn out to be a necessary game changer, and as I already said myself, I certainly don't expect most magical girl shows to be grimdark from now on. What Madoka is famous for is not reimagining the genre (in a way, Nanoha went further in this aspect), but reconsidering it. The innovations are centered around a system that contrasts with conventional systems and procedures of miracles and magic. It was done before? As the saying goes, "the new is in fact the well-forgotten old". Whatever that vintage anime did a quarter of a century ago, it doesn't seem to have been appreciated enough to shape up the genre. Maybe Madoka won't do it either, but the point is that the idea was picked up eventually and met the demands of the audience. Besides, I bet that Madoka managed to pull off some details (graphics, music, sound, script elements) better than it was possible back in old times. Leonardo projected a lot of flying machines, but those who created planes centuries later are hardly to be denied the right of innovation just because they reinvented the idea and managed to actually realize some things (not a perfect comparison here, but you get the idea).

I agree we what you say. I am no anime expert. But I know when I have just watched something that is new for me. And Madoka was definitely new. Original. I was speechless after watching the visual and OST combination.
The story is so-so? I don't think so, it wasn't perfect, but good enough.
It has already been done before? well, in a way yes! You look at some greek mythologies and you will see that most things are already there, why, we even say "greek tragedy" in daily conversations, right?

One thing I would like to point out though. Leonardo was a genius and what not, but nobody actually saw his inventions, plans etc. while he was alive. Nobody tried to made them either. Sure, he did try to show some of them, like the "tank" but it was never made .
So people that reinvented the plane, were actually inventing it since it had never been done before.

Back to Madoka. It doesn't matter if it has already been done before (because it wasn't. Unless it is a remake or a copy, it is always new in a way). It is at the very least a "refresh". I don't know much about the genre. And I admit that I don't care much if it is a "magical girl"show. It was interesting to watch. And I am someone who does not like dramatic shows...

[yanZy-san]

Downloading this now cant wait till its finished, wanna watch it soooo badly lol, I've heard nothing but good reviews on this (^_^)

[sa547]

Get it then, as it's one of the few best masterpieces the winter (and even the spring) season can offer in a sea of lackluster cliches and tired rehashes. Madoka blesses you.

[MrTerrorist]

I just watched the DVD/Blu-ray of the 1st episode. Is there any difference between the DVD/Bluray version and the TV version since i never seen the latter.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by MrTerrorist

I just watched the DVD/Blu-ray of the 1st episode. Is there any difference between the DVD/Bluray version and the TV version since i never seen the latter.

Quite a bit actualy:

http://yaraon.blog109.fc2.com/blog-entry-1683.html

The music score is used a bit differently too

[MrTerrorist]

^I also notice the DVD/Blu-Ray episode has a new ED song not sang by Kalafina.

[mols]

I looked at the differences... in some cases I prefer the TV version...

[Akashin]

I'm still not too big on the new windows; definitely an unnecessary change there. Other than that the only other change I didn't like was the change to the opening scene which, while consistent with the rest of the series now, takes away a lot of the dark and creepy aspect that sent a chill down my spine the first time I watched it (though to be fair, it could have been the slowed down Magia that gave me the chill ).

[mols]

Originally Posted by Akashin

I'm still not too big on the new windows; definitely an unnecessary change there. Other than that the only other change I didn't like was the change to the opening scene which, while consistent with the rest of the series now, takes away a lot of the dark and creepy aspect that sent a chill down my spine the first time I watched it (though to be fair, it could have been the slowed down Magia that gave me the chill ).

Exactly.
And not only that, I preferred Mami's empty room. An empty room that showed a lonely person. It somehow showed the hard life MS had...

[Akashin]

I could care less about Mami's room, because really, an extravagantly decorated room and a completely empty room says more or less the same thing; that she's completely alone. Only difference is that the new look gives the impression of overcompensating, which actually fits her a bit better than it being completely empty.

Still far from being a necessary change, but it's not something to really complain about, I don't think.