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Judoh · 2010-07-14, 19:34

To be honest I use episode 4 more as a gold mine for murder weapons. There is an explanation for just about every murder weapon in the game from Kyrie. Even remote control airplanes, phone cables, table legs, and stones are suggested as potential murder weapons.

Leafsnail · 2010-07-14, 19:38

It confirms the presence of rope as a murder weapon too (hence the garroting in ep 3).

Hmm... would the bladed weapon used in ep2 and ep5 be a kitchen knife? Or the axe Kanon grabbed in ep1?

Kylon99 · 2010-07-14, 19:41

Oh, about Natsuhi... I was thinking this:

We suspect that people are faking the first twilight and probably successive twilights. Although this plan gets muddled when real murders happen. We also suspect that the epitaph is more than just about the gold; this can be seen since the faking of the murders appear to follow the epitaph.

Then there is one more consequence to this. Though successive events appear to interfere with later murders, the first twilight is almost always successfully executed. EP5 was a bit dodgy with the numbers but the plan did go ahead.

In the epitaph there is one event that occurs before the first twilight. The selection of the key. I've totally forgotten about this. But I don't think it's good to brush it off. This is because the people faking are going along with the epitaph; so there must be a key somewhere.

So here's the idea. Maybe the key is a human. And this key, as it says in the epitaph chooses the 6 of the first twilight. I've always thought it was Genji or Kumasawa doing the choosing and ergo they are the key... but...

Remember how we've seen Rosa co-operating with the servants? And I thought that Natsuhi was also in cahoots in EP1. I need to recheck EP3 and 4, but Eva was special in a way in EP3. And maybe Kyrie being the one to spin that whole magic story in EP4 meant she was in league with the servants. At the very least Rosa is suspicious in EP2 and 5. Battler is suspicious on EP6 for being the letter placer. And I'm thinking Natsuhi is suspicious in EP1.

Maybe the 'Keys' in each episode were:
EP1 - Natsuhi
EP2 - Rosa
EP3 - Eva
EP4 - Kyrie
EP5 - Rosa
EP6 - Battler

These keys will always survive the First Twilight. And they choose the 'victims' of the First Twilight, but in the episodes they are picked they know of the 'plan.' In all other episodes they do not. These 'keys' usually co-operate with the servants until they start getting suspicious.

This hopefully allows us to explain a few strange behaviors and occurances in each EP with what appeared to be the 'main sibling character' that was featured in each episode. At least for EP1-4.

Anyways... it's an idea... does this work?

LyricalAura · 2010-07-14, 19:46

That would tie in well with something bizarre Beato said to Rosa in EP2 when she handed over her first letter. I don't remember the exact text, but it was along the lines of: "Any of the siblings would have been fine, but it looks like you were chosen by the roulette this time." That was the letter we never found out the contents of, if I recall...

Matrim · 2010-07-14, 20:00

Just finished EP6. I can't say I am too pleased. 95% of the time it took place in the metaworld, personally I like the "real" scenes more. And there was so much filler, everything was repeated, often more than once. I swear that the phrase "in other words" looked like the most common one in this episode.

The romance element bored me to tears to be honest and there was so much of it. A single twilight was stretched to monstrous proportions but both sides in the argument had to be rather incompetent in order for this to happen.

Best scene was Battler (probably) locked in that room and the "witch" biting off his finger. Man, that was intense.

Judoh · 2010-07-14, 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by LyricalAura

That would tie in well with something bizarre Beato said to Rosa in EP2 when she handed over her first letter. I don't remember the exact text, but it was along the lines of: "Any of the siblings would have been fine, but it looks like you were chosen by the roulette this time." That was the letter we never found out the contents of, if I recall...

If you play with killing off the character portraits in the Tips one of the adults gets surrounded or "pinned" after the second twilight. In episode 6 it just happens to be Rudolf. Episode 1 and 5 are both Natsuhi. Episode 4 pretty sure it's Kinzo.

Oh and the key is definitely Maria. She's the only person that word has ever been associated with.

Spoiler for Kyrie again:

Jan-Poo · 2010-07-14, 20:46

If Maria is the key, then it's as if there's no key at all.
Maria will never tell anyone who's Beatrice's host body.

Sniesk · 2010-07-14, 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judoh

If you play with killing off the character portraits in the Tips one of the adults gets surrounded or "pinned" after the second twilight. In episode 6 it just happens to be Rudolf. Episode 1 and 5 are both Natsuhi. Episode 4 pretty sure it's Kinzo.

What do you mean by that?

Judoh · 2010-07-14, 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniesk

What do you mean by that?

It's just something I noticed so don't pay too much mind to it. If you play around with the execute button in the character menu and recreate the first and second twilights in each episode one of the adults always ends up surrounded by dead portraits. It might just be coincidence though.

rogerpepitone · 2010-07-14, 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judoh

It's just something I noticed so don't pay too much mind to it. If you play around with the execute button in the character menu and recreate the first and second twilights in each episode one of the adults always ends up surrounded by dead portraits. It might just be coincidence though.

Natsuhi is next to Jessica, who survives to the end of Episode 1.

Judoh · 2010-07-14, 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogerpepitone

Natsuhi is next to Jessica, who survives to the end of Episode 1.

I don't mean completely surrounded by then. I mean after the second twilight you can tell who will be. It doesn't matter who you kill after that you can tell by then who it's supposed to be that survives until the end.

Krauss is right next to her too and his portrait pins Natsuhi both in Episode 1 and 5.

Anyway like I said it's probably a coincidence.

Jan-Poo · 2010-07-14, 21:48

I don't think it's a coincidence, it's simply a matter of logic that those that are in the center are more likely to get "surrounded" and "pinned" than those found in the borders, and those in the center are all adults.
If you then add that barring from EP5 adults are often chosen as first twilight victims, then it's pretty likely that the surviving adults will get surrounded.

Anyway there's only one total "surround" in EP5. there is nothing of the sort in EP3 and in EP4 Krauss and Kyrie have the same amount of deads around them and so is in EP6 for Hideyoshi and Rudolf.

Kylon99 · 2010-07-14, 22:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matrim

I swear that the phrase "in other words" looked like the most common one in this episode.

I know which word you're talking about. When I was reading it through in Japanese I kept seeing sunawachi (すなわち) over and over again... I wish Ryukishi had picked up a thesaurus... or at least spent more effort re-wording his sentences. 8)

Then again, he was probably a bit rushed since this was for the Winter Comike. Only Sep -> Dec rather than 7 months like Jan -> Aug for Summer Comike.

Oh.. he also kept using katsute(かつて) (means former or ex-) over and over again.. augghh!

June 1983 · 2010-07-15, 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matrim

Just finished EP6. I can't say I am too pleased. 95% of the time it took place in the metaworld, personally I like the "real" scenes more. And there was so much filler, everything was repeated, often more than once. I swear that the phrase "in other words" looked like the most common one in this episode.

The romance element bored me to tears to be honest and there was so much of it. A single twilight was stretched to monstrous proportions but both sides in the argument had to be rather incompetent in order for this to happen.

Best scene was Battler (probably) locked in that room and the "witch" biting off his finger. Man, that was intense.

However ... personally it felt like it didn't matter, because Ep 6 sort of proves that the "real world" (the game board) is in fact the least real of all the realities we're shown, isn't it? Except perhaps for some of the 1998 scenes, we actually haven't seen the "real world" at all and won't until the very end, I'm expecting.

theplane2 · 2010-07-15, 03:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matrim

Just finished EP6. I can't say I am too pleased. 95% of the time it took place in the metaworld, personally I like the "real" scenes more. And there was so much filler, everything was repeated, often more than once. I swear that the phrase "in other words" looked like the most common one in this episode.

The romance element bored me to tears to be honest and there was so much of it. A single twilight was stretched to monstrous proportions but both sides in the argument had to be rather incompetent in order for this to happen.

Best scene was Battler (probably) locked in that room and the "witch" biting off his finger. Man, that was intense.

I honestly think Ryuukishi realized that some of us would be 'bored to tears' by the romance aspects, thus the small scene where Erika tells Battler she was getting bored of the 'love fest' that this game was... And he looked on her with pity for it. It seemed to me that this episode was sort of a way to drill into our heads just how important the romance aspect is for this series. Quite possibly, love being the theme was an enormous hint in some way as to why the murders happened, or something. Sort of like despite the murders, friendship was a central theme in Higurashi/Kai.
I will agree that my favorite parts were the closed room sequences, though. They were very well done in my opinion.

Heatth · 2010-07-15, 04:28

Hi everyone, just finished EP6. Not going to post my impressions about the episode, no body here knows who I am so I doubt you will be interested.

Anyway, a few pages ago there were people discussing the 'real world' reason for Kanon, Shannon, Battler and Erika act they way they did in the Game Board. A few of their action (apparently) do not make sense if they do not know about the Red.

First the premises I am following:

-I believe in the Shkannon theory. Or, better, a conform to it (I don't like it, but do not see other option).

-Similarly I believe in Shannontrice (after that flashback, there is no one else who could be 'Beatrice').

-I am assuming most people do not know about Shkannon

-I believe everyone guessed as much, but here who Kanon scaped from the Cousins Room and saved Battler:
Kanon was never in the Cousin Room. Shannon escaped from the Next Room Over by window, become Kanon and went to 'save' Battler. After hiding in the closet, Kanon ceased to be 'Kanon' and become 'Beatrice'. I will explain why they did it in a moment.

Here my theory:

Spoiler for Real World Game Board Theory:

Well, that is it. Hope you liked it.

There is, of course, a few oddities, so I ask anyone who agreed with me to help me to fix those.

The main oddity is why everyone agreed with such convoluted prank. Particularly the adults, they all need money fast and need to define the inheritance quickly. Why spend so much time? They even cut the chains! Why would Natsuhi allow it? All to play a prank in Erika? Is she just that annoying? I have no clue about that.

Well, aside that, I believe I covered everything. Because of that reasoning, I didn't think this Game Board felt less real then the one of the Ep1-4. I actually felt that way about the Ep5, but that was until I read about the prank theory. After that I regained my conviction that there is always some occult rational reason for everything, including how people react. So, yes, although at this point the story of the Meta World is more important that the story of the Game Board, I still feel the first is a metaphor for what is happening in the second.

PP:
Oh, yeah, you who don't know me in that board, sorry for my bad English. Not my first language. Hope it is still legible, despite the size.

Metaler · 2010-07-15, 06:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heatth

The main oddity is why everyone agreed with such convoluted prank. Particularly the adults, they all need money fast and need to define the inheritance quickly. Why spend so much time? They even cut the chains! Why would Natsuhi allow it? All to play a prank in Erika? Is she just that annoying? I have no clue about that.

I believe that if this "prank" really happened, then not everyone was aware of it. The way Rudolf reacted to Battler's "corpse" kind of points to that. Sure, he might be acting, but from what I see, his reaction is a bit more real than that. Same goes for Hideyoshi, but I'm not sure. I imagine Eva would tell her own husband that she was planning something like a prank.
Also, I'm sure someone said this before, but the fact that Kyrie "died" in Krauss's study might be an indication that she was investing the place, looking for any kind of proof that shows Krauss has been embezzling money.

Jan-Poo · 2010-07-15, 08:04

Lol I've totally missed chronotrig's explanation for Erika's killing spree.
Sorry, but I've rarely seen something more ridiculous.

1) Erika is the detective, declaring who is the culprit is her greater joy. Killing the culprit just means you fail as a detective. There isn't such a thing as a detective that kills the prime suspect. Unless he really doesn't have any other choice.
2) Suppose that everything we know about Erika's character is completely and totally false (at which point you might just erase everything and just look at the red text). I argue that the last thing 99.9% of the persons would do in such situation was to kill a suspect culprit that just pretends to be dead. You can't really invoke the legitimate defense if you kill a defenseless person, no matter if he's a killer.
3) Erika's act had to be premeditated. In order for this to work she should have had already a knife (why she brought a knife with herself? If she really thought she was in danger, why she didn't ask the guys with the guns to escort her?) and more importantly she had to cover her whole body with plastic bags. There is absolutely no way she could have severed someone's head without being smeared with blood. Not to mention several heads! If she really had the time to do all that stuff then she'd better call for Hideyoshi and the other adults with the guns.
4) There was absolutely no need to sever the whole head. This is confirmed in red, this was the method of killing. Seriously what the hell Erika was thinking? That Kyrie was some kind of terminator? Yeah go explain to the judge how it was legitimate defense.
5) Let's say that Erika is a total psycho, which at this point is the only credible thing you can say. Why she didn't kill Battler? She didn't have the time? That's quite a lame excuse. Erika's seal aren't thing that can be placed in a few seconds. They need to have her signature, and she also needs to make some cuts in them. If you rush in doing all of these delicate operations you may invalidate them.
6) Even if sealing the room was faster. What was the purpose? Erika had already killed five people at that point. If she went back and found the seals broken, what exactly was she going to gain from that? It's not like the seals actually block any escape. And again wasn't it just faster to slit Battler's throat?
7) Suppose that there is a reason for all that. Why the hell Erika sealed the cousin's room and the next room over? Exactly what she was going to gain from that? At that point she wasn't a detective anymore. She couldn't use the seals to prove her point in front of everyone, nor to the police. It simply had no purpose at all. She also was simply unable to prove the validity of the seals, because she had to break them first to let the people see them. basically it would be just her word.
8) Am I supposed to believe that a girl with the body of a middle-schooler, was able to kill so easily 5 persons, without causing any ruckus? Imo you have seen too many action movies.

Heatth · 2010-07-15, 08:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metaler

I believe that if this "prank" really happened, then not everyone was aware of it. The way Rudolf reacted to Battler's "corpse" kind of points to that. Sure, he might be acting, but from what I see, his reaction is a bit more real than that. Same goes for Hideyoshi, but I'm not sure. I imagine Eva would tell her own husband that she was planning something like a prank.
Also, I'm sure someone said this before, but the fact that Kyrie "died" in Krauss's study might be an indication that she was investing the place, looking for any kind of proof that shows Krauss has been embezzling money.

The prank did happened to some level. It was said in red the five were alive until Erika killed then, at last they were faking. Since every women was in the prank, I find hard to believe they wouldn't tell their husband and child, so I can only assume they know as well.

For Kyrie be investigating Krauss study, well, that is a nice theory. It is not like she had to stay 'dead' all time. I suppose this would fill the reasons for Kyrie, Rudolf and maybe even Evam, Hideyoshi and Rosa to participate. Kruass and Natsuhi are the main problem, tough. Is Krauss that stupid to allow anyone in his study if he was hidding something there? Unless he is the only one who don't know and the rest have, somehow, fooled Natsuhi?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Lol I've totally missed chronotrig's explanation for Erika's killing spree.
Sorry, but I've rarely seen something more ridiculous.

I don't like that theory neither, to say the truth. However, since I can't think in anything beyond "Erika is crazy and delusional" I couldn't deny it. My theory was mainly to explain Shannon changing her personality many times without apparent reason and grew from that.

Not knowing nothing about 'real Erika' is a pain if we want motives. We only know the meta Erika but her motivations do not work without the meta world.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

7) Suppose that there is a reason for all that. Why the hell Erika sealed the cousin's room and the next room over? Exactly what she was going to gain from that? At that point she wasn't a detective anymore. She couldn't use the seals to prove her point in front of everyone, nor to the police. It simply had no purpose at all. She also was simply unable to prove the validity of the seals, because she had to break them first to let the people see them. basically it would be just her word.

I covered that in my theory. She wold know if anyone had leave the rooms. Assuming she was going to errase the evidences, then she would want to know if anyone followed her (as it happened). Even if it can't really block people from leaving, it would ensure to Erika they couldn't know what she had done. Sure, not the better plan, but the only thing she could do at time.

Erika would probably panic when noticing the seal of the Next Room Over was broken. Dunno what she would do next. Maybe flee. Or maybe try to to lie. Or even try to fight back (kinda stupid, as they have guns).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

8) Am I supposed to believe that a girl with the body of a middle-schooler, was able to kill so easily 5 persons, without causing any ruckus? Imo you have seen too many action movies.

Well, she did just that. It was said in red wasn't it? You can either complain about bad writing or trust Ryuukishi and try to understand what he meant.

Anyway, human body is frail. With a knife is not that hard kill in one blow if the person do not react. Cutting to neck, even if the person survive, would prevent the person to screen. and the pain would allow even a schoolgirl can to overcome them. The mansion is big and it was raining heavy, the 'ruckus' would be short and possibly not heard to anyone but Erika. The only problem would be Maria,, if she noticed her mother was killed. But she is just a kid, assuming she did not fled, Erika can kill her easily. It is not the most believable of the plots, but not that unreal either.

Leafsnail · 2010-07-15, 08:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

8) Am I supposed to believe that a girl with the body of a middle-schooler, was able to kill so easily 5 persons, without causing any ruckus? Imo you have seen too many action movies.

There may be past examples of this in the When They Cry universe...

2010-07-14, 19:34	Link #3161
Judoh Mystery buff Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Gone Fishin!	To be honest I use episode 4 more as a gold mine for murder weapons. There is an explanation for just about every murder weapon in the game from Kyrie. Even remote control airplanes, phone cables, table legs, and stones are suggested as potential murder weapons. __________________ Judoh's George Culprit Analysis George steals candy from kids! Archive of Ryukishi interviews Gold truth theories:"

2010-07-14, 19:46	Link #3164
LyricalAura Dea ex Kakera Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Sea of Fragments	That would tie in well with something bizarre Beato said to Rosa in EP2 when she handed over her first letter. I don't remember the exact text, but it was along the lines of: "Any of the siblings would have been fine, but it looks like you were chosen by the roulette this time." That was the letter we never found out the contents of, if I recall... __________________ "Something has fallen on us that falls very seldom on men; perhaps the worst thing that can fall on them. We have found the truth; and the truth makes no sense."

2010-07-14, 20:00	Link #3165
Matrim Naysayer?Fanboy?Wiseacre? Join Date: Dec 2005	Just finished EP6. I can't say I am too pleased. 95% of the time it took place in the metaworld, personally I like the "real" scenes more. And there was so much filler, everything was repeated, often more than once. I swear that the phrase "in other words" looked like the most common one in this episode. The romance element bored me to tears to be honest and there was so much of it. A single twilight was stretched to monstrous proportions but both sides in the argument had to be rather incompetent in order for this to happen. Best scene was Battler (probably) locked in that room and the "witch" biting off his finger. Man, that was intense. __________________ 'The world we live in is always in darkness.' 'Yes, and that is why we seek light.'

2010-07-14, 20:46	Link #3167
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	If Maria is the key, then it's as if there's no key at all. Maria will never tell anyone who's Beatrice's host body. __________________

2010-07-14, 21:48	Link #3172
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	I don't think it's a coincidence, it's simply a matter of logic that those that are in the center are more likely to get "surrounded" and "pinned" than those found in the borders, and those in the center are all adults. If you then add that barring from EP5 adults are often chosen as first twilight victims, then it's pretty likely that the surviving adults will get surrounded. Anyway there's only one total "surround" in EP5. there is nothing of the sort in EP3 and in EP4 Krauss and Kyrie have the same amount of deads around them and so is in EP6 for Hideyoshi and Rudolf. __________________

2010-07-14, 19:38	Link #3162
Leafsnail Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010	It confirms the presence of rope as a murder weapon too (hence the garroting in ep 3). Hmm... would the bladed weapon used in ep2 and ep5 be a kitchen knife? Or the axe Kanon grabbed in ep1?

2010-07-14, 19:41	Link #3163
Kylon99 Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Meta-Meta-Meta-Space	Oh, about Natsuhi... I was thinking this: We suspect that people are faking the first twilight and probably successive twilights. Although this plan gets muddled when real murders happen. We also suspect that the epitaph is more than just about the gold; this can be seen since the faking of the murders appear to follow the epitaph. Then there is one more consequence to this. Though successive events appear to interfere with later murders, the first twilight is almost always successfully executed. EP5 was a bit dodgy with the numbers but the plan did go ahead. In the epitaph there is one event that occurs before the first twilight. The selection of the key. I've totally forgotten about this. But I don't think it's good to brush it off. This is because the people faking are going along with the epitaph; so there must be a key somewhere. So here's the idea. Maybe the key is a human. And this key, as it says in the epitaph chooses the 6 of the first twilight. I've always thought it was Genji or Kumasawa doing the choosing and ergo they are the key... but... Remember how we've seen Rosa co-operating with the servants? And I thought that Natsuhi was also in cahoots in EP1. I need to recheck EP3 and 4, but Eva was special in a way in EP3. And maybe Kyrie being the one to spin that whole magic story in EP4 meant she was in league with the servants. At the very least Rosa is suspicious in EP2 and 5. Battler is suspicious on EP6 for being the letter placer. And I'm thinking Natsuhi is suspicious in EP1. Maybe the 'Keys' in each episode were: EP1 - Natsuhi EP2 - Rosa EP3 - Eva EP4 - Kyrie EP5 - Rosa EP6 - Battler These keys will always survive the First Twilight. And they choose the 'victims' of the First Twilight, but in the episodes they are picked they know of the 'plan.' In all other episodes they do not. These 'keys' usually co-operate with the servants until they start getting suspicious. This hopefully allows us to explain a few strange behaviors and occurances in each EP with what appeared to be the 'main sibling character' that was featured in each episode. At least for EP1-4. Anyways... it's an idea... does this work?

2010-07-15, 04:28	Link #3176
Heatth Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Brasil Age: 33	Hi everyone, just finished EP6. Not going to post my impressions about the episode, no body here knows who I am so I doubt you will be interested. Anyway, a few pages ago there were people discussing the 'real world' reason for Kanon, Shannon, Battler and Erika act they way they did in the Game Board. A few of their action (apparently) do not make sense if they do not know about the Red. First the premises I am following: -I believe in the Shkannon theory. Or, better, a conform to it (I don't like it, but do not see other option). -Similarly I believe in Shannontrice (after that flashback, there is no one else who could be 'Beatrice'). -I am assuming most people do not know about Shkannon -I believe everyone guessed as much, but here who Kanon scaped from the Cousins Room and saved Battler: Kanon was never in the Cousin Room. Shannon escaped from the Next Room Over by window, become Kanon and went to 'save' Battler. After hiding in the closet, Kanon ceased to be 'Kanon' and become 'Beatrice'. I will explain why they did it in a moment. Here my theory: Spoiler for Real World Game Board Theory: Why is everyone so inclined to obey Erika: The First Twilight was a fake, a prank aimed to Erika. The whole point of it was allow her to play the 'detective'. Therefore every one agreed to let her act as such and followed her instructions. I believe this is true for the EP5 as well. Why Erika killed everyone: No idea. I am going for chronotrig's theory by now. Why Erika sealed the rooms: As for chronotrig's theory, Erika felt she had not time to properly kill Battler, so she decided to postpone it and just make sure she would know if he left. She sealed the Cousins Room and the Next Room Over to know if someone was following her. Why did Battler not leave the Guest Room until Erika went there again: Because the seals. Why did he know about the seals? Kumasawa warned him. It was Kumasawa who lend that tape to Erika, someone guessed what she was planning and warned Battler. Eva did have a similar plan and possibility Hideyoshi knew that as well, allowing he to be the person who noticed (naturally Kumasawa told everyone what she lend to Erika). Battler was warned by phone. I believe no one actually checked to see if it was working, and even if someone did, s/he would be just lying to Erika. The letter: I assume it was prepared before hand. Erika just placed the seals at Battler's room. Sending her to the hardest place to scape is a bit odd. Alternatively, they didn't know where Erika placed the seals and warned everyone about it (not just Battler). Maybe, unlike the Meta scenes told us, Erika could have sealed every room if she wanted (but she had no time and had already killed everyone else, anyway). They send Erika to Battler's room because he is young and a guy, so they thought he would fool Erika better then the mothers (and Maria). The letter was placed by Kanon while Erika was busy checking the locks/placing seals. (btw, I am surprised meta-Erika didn't pointed meta-Battler about it). Why Kanon followed Erika: To "save" Battler? Of course not, at that point they didn't know Erika was a murder. Kanon followed Erika to keep track on her. Knowing were she is he could warn the First Twilight victims by phone when she was coming (so they don't need to pretend dead the whole time). Kanon is the best person to do the job, since he is sneaky. Why it took so much time to people notice Kanon was missing from the Cousin Room: It was the 'plan'. Erika was the one who divided the rooms. 'Kanon', knowing there were no way to stay in the Cousins Room while Erika was keeping her eyes on 'Shannon', suggested he would stay away from the room to keep his eyes on Erika (as following the above point). Naturally just an excuse. Why Shannon become Kanon to follow Erika: As I said, Kanon is the best one to do that and the one who was supposed to be doing that. Shannon must be 'Shannon' while Erika was in the Next Room Over, since it was how they agreed to be divided. Becoming 'Kanon' might just mean she removed the dress to run and hide better. Another hypothesis. Shannon/Kanon was not following Erika. Instead, when Erika told she was going to the Cousins Room, Shannon leave the Next Room Over so she could be there as 'Kanon'. Noticing Erika went to the mansion incited, Shannon followed her. Either way, 'Kanon' was supposed to be following Erika, so Shannon need an excuse to exit the Next Room Over. That would be 'warning Kanon Erika was leaving', I suppose. She shouldn't took so much time, but people in the Next Room Over would just assume she was supporting Kanon. Why Battler made such ridiculous trap in the bathroom: Battler knew he was in trouble when he was warned about the seals. The plan was to him disappear "by magic", but he couldn't do that with the seals set. Thinking fast he made the trap to provide the distraction for enough time so he could escape. He probably just armed the trap when he was warned Erika was leaving the Guest House (by phone). The plan have a big hole, have Erika ignored the sound of the bathroom and just opened the closet, Battler would be spotted. But it was the better he could do at time. Why Battler needed to be saved: As soon Battler saw the chain lock he knew he was in trouble again. He then asked Kanon (who either he knew should be following Erika or met in the corridor) to change places with him. Kanon is better at hiding, so it may have fooled Erika. He probably even told Kanon to hide some where in the bed room (instead the closed) , since Erika probably wouldn't check the same place twice. Why Kanon stopped being 'Kanon' Kanon had a better idea to scare Erika. It may have been his plan all time, so he had Beatrice wig and clothes with him. Or maybe just the wig and the clothes he took in the closet. Anyway, Kanon quickly change to 'Beatrice' so, when Erika found him, now 'her', she would have a big surprise. Well, that is it. Hope you liked it. There is, of course, a few oddities, so I ask anyone who agreed with me to help me to fix those. The main oddity is why everyone agreed with such convoluted prank. Particularly the adults, they all need money fast and need to define the inheritance quickly. Why spend so much time? They even cut the chains! Why would Natsuhi allow it? All to play a prank in Erika? Is she just that annoying? I have no clue about that. Well, aside that, I believe I covered everything. Because of that reasoning, I didn't think this Game Board felt less real then the one of the Ep1-4. I actually felt that way about the Ep5, but that was until I read about the prank theory. After that I regained my conviction that there is always some occult rational reason for everything, including how people react. So, yes, although at this point the story of the Meta World is more important that the story of the Game Board, I still feel the first is a metaphor for what is happening in the second. PP: Oh, yeah, you who don't know me in that board, sorry for my bad English. Not my first language. Hope it is still legible, despite the size.

2010-07-15, 08:04	Link #3178
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	Lol I've totally missed chronotrig's explanation for Erika's killing spree. Sorry, but I've rarely seen something more ridiculous. 1) Erika is the detective, declaring who is the culprit is her greater joy. Killing the culprit just means you fail as a detective. There isn't such a thing as a detective that kills the prime suspect. Unless he really doesn't have any other choice. 2) Suppose that everything we know about Erika's character is completely and totally false (at which point you might just erase everything and just look at the red text). I argue that the last thing 99.9% of the persons would do in such situation was to kill a suspect culprit that just pretends to be dead. You can't really invoke the legitimate defense if you kill a defenseless person, no matter if he's a killer. 3) Erika's act had to be premeditated. In order for this to work she should have had already a knife (why she brought a knife with herself? If she really thought she was in danger, why she didn't ask the guys with the guns to escort her?) and more importantly she had to cover her whole body with plastic bags. There is absolutely no way she could have severed someone's head without being smeared with blood. Not to mention several heads! If she really had the time to do all that stuff then she'd better call for Hideyoshi and the other adults with the guns. 4) There was absolutely no need to sever the whole head. This is confirmed in red, this was the method of killing. Seriously what the hell Erika was thinking? That Kyrie was some kind of terminator? Yeah go explain to the judge how it was legitimate defense. 5) Let's say that Erika is a total psycho, which at this point is the only credible thing you can say. Why she didn't kill Battler? She didn't have the time? That's quite a lame excuse. Erika's seal aren't thing that can be placed in a few seconds. They need to have her signature, and she also needs to make some cuts in them. If you rush in doing all of these delicate operations you may invalidate them. 6) Even if sealing the room was faster. What was the purpose? Erika had already killed five people at that point. If she went back and found the seals broken, what exactly was she going to gain from that? It's not like the seals actually block any escape. And again wasn't it just faster to slit Battler's throat? 7) Suppose that there is a reason for all that. Why the hell Erika sealed the cousin's room and the next room over? Exactly what she was going to gain from that? At that point she wasn't a detective anymore. She couldn't use the seals to prove her point in front of everyone, nor to the police. It simply had no purpose at all. She also was simply unable to prove the validity of the seals, because she had to break them first to let the people see them. basically it would be just her word. 8) Am I supposed to believe that a girl with the body of a middle-schooler, was able to kill so easily 5 persons, without causing any ruckus? Imo you have seen too many action movies. __________________ Last edited by Jan-Poo; 2010-07-15 at 08:16.