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View Poll Results: Sakurasou no Pet na Kanojo - Episode 9 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 13 | 22.03% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 14 | 23.73% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 22 | 37.29% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 9 | 15.25% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 1 | 1.69% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 0 | 0% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll |
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2012-12-06, 15:53 | Link #201 | |
Senior Member
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And in fact, the great freedoms we enjoy is a big part of the reason why it's good to encourage people to care about others. As for your debate with chaos2frozen... do you honestly believe that most people are allowed to do whatever they want? Most people frequently have to do things that they don't want to do. How many people enjoyed going to school every day they went to school? How many people enjoyed going to work every day they went to work? And yet, that is expected of people. In most industrialized nations, kids are expected to go to school, period. It doesn't matter if they want to or not. This notion that people should only do what they want to do is completely divorced from reality, imo.
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2012-12-06, 15:56 | Link #202 | ||
=^^=
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: 42° 10' N (Latitude) 87° 33' W (Longitude)
Age: 45
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And now... who wants some more Gangnam Style? Quote:
YET: The real interesting this will be: How will Mashiro respond when she learns about Sorata's opinion on the matter?
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2012-12-06, 15:57 | Link #203 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
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But then as you said, Mashiro might hold a completely different value and perspective, so those things above might not bother her at all. But then, at the same time she might hold the same view as us, just having trouble expressing it, how do we actually know? Whichever is valuable to her, we need to know, and why, if you want people to accept it. So in my opinion, your statement might be correct for strangers anonmyous fans or even mankind itself. But it doesn't apply to Rita, as she is, as far as I know, one of the closest person Mashiro has. She has the right to show concern, to persuade and trying her best for Mashiro's hapiness (by her understanding), her method might not be the best, but I can not wrong her effort at all.
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Last edited by Zavie; 2012-12-06 at 17:51. |
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2012-12-06, 15:59 | Link #204 |
Me at work
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The thing is,I think people are taking the shortcut "only what Shiina wants matters" because in both options there's people that would benefit from her talents,the manga world could lose a great mangaka if she goes back to painting full time.I know you brought up Michael Jordan earlier,but who's to say she can't be a Bo Jackson and be great at both.
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2012-12-06, 16:03 | Link #205 | |
We're Back
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Redgrave City
Age: 35
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Regardless, it still means you have to listen to people's opinion at least- Outright blocking them is not a realistic option in life.
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2012-12-06, 16:06 | Link #206 | ||
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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But again it depends on the situation. If there's no unreasonable sacrifices in doing so then yeah sure, but it's not always for everyone. Very few perspectives are.
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2012-12-06, 16:25 | Link #207 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
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Others think it's my opinion so maybe it is but I do not think those in England have her best interest at all. If they did they would of tried to have her mature and not treat her as a simpleton that needed a caretaker for every little thing. They strike me on how simple she is they viewed her as nothing more than a tool to create art. If you want a slave what would you do in this age? Not let them know they were a slave. If they do not know what freedom is how can they know they are a slave? Leaving someone to be as dependent as her in affect creates a slave because she has to rely on someone for everything. It is like the pet bird in the cage that was born and raised in the cage it is the only life it knows and is happy. Everything to me points to that is how she was raised without her best interest at heart. Maybe a better analogy would be the Killer Whale those born in captivity in the beginning was about nil the wild Killer Whales did not give mate and give birth in captivity they miss the wild but those born in captivity grew up and gave birth to more in captivity. The ones born in captivity knew nothing but that life. Japan, is the best place for her where she has friends that are helping her to learn how to become more independent and how to really express herself. Teaching her what she should have been learning as a child about the world itself and how to live. Her friends in Japan have her best interest at heart the one thing that did not seem to be the case in England. I really like this series it really brings out a lot of darkness of the world in many ways, the opinions of people, and a lot of speculation, yet nobody has really flamed each other like so many threads tend to do. |
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2012-12-06, 16:30 | Link #208 | |
We're Back
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Redgrave City
Age: 35
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Indeed, what were they thinking placing her in an all-girls school setting?! Those bastards ! Cute girls must mingle with boys! No exceptions!
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2012-12-06, 16:39 | Link #209 | |||
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Now, maybe Shiina can become just as good a mangaka as she can a painter. If so, this entire debate basically becomes moot. But given what the characters know and can evaluate now, I don't think that Rita or Sorata are taking unreasonable positions. They might be wrong, sure, but I don't think they're horrible people for giving their honest assessment of Shiina's painting vs. Shiina's manga, and voicing opinions based on that. And I don't think that either are completely forgetting Shiina's own happiness here. Perhaps they're not weighing it heavily enough, but as Haak rightly points out, a big part of the problem is that Shiina leaves a lot to guesswork. For example, did Shiina push Rita out the door because she didn't want to go back to painting, or because she didn't want to go back to London, or both? All three are very real possibilities. It would be rather funny if we learn next episode that Rita was calling Sorata "Stupid Sorata" just because she felt hurt at Sorata being so willing to have her leave him and go back to London. We should keep in mind that Shiina painted not once, but twice, in this episode. That doesn't strike me as a person who has completely lost a fondness for painting. Quote:
I raised the JFK quote not because I think it's absolutely right in every instance, but just because such quotes are important reminders of how it's important to think altruistically at least some times. So I don't want Shiina to put the masses ahead of her own desires, but simply for the masses to be a consideration. My general thinking is that when you're facing a major decision in life it's good to think about the pros and cons of each possible decision. My thinking is "How will my decision affect others?" should come up somewhere in those pros/cons. That's all. The decisive factor could still be "I'd rather do manga because I've come to love verbalized storytelling. I find that greatly more rewarding than the merely implied storytelling of painting." If so, fine.
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2012-12-06, 16:50 | Link #210 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: 42° 10' N (Latitude) 87° 33' W (Longitude)
Age: 45
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At the same time, people giving opinions to other people: in order for these opinions to be considered, a person would have to be trusted. So, another thing to look for: Does Mashiro trust Rita? So far, the impression shows "no". If some untrusted person gives me suggestions, I am not going to listen.
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2012-12-06, 16:54 | Link #211 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Redgrave City
Age: 35
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I'm not sure where you got that impression; it's less about not trusting her and more like she's just angry- Don't forget her first reaction was to tackle her with a big hug.
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2012-12-06, 17:25 | Link #212 | ||
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: 42° 10' N (Latitude) 87° 33' W (Longitude)
Age: 45
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Here's a general question to anyone:
Have you ever been a part of something -- and you simply left it? Quote:
So, OK. The trust thing was a bit much into this discussion. Although, it is still a considerable factor to consider regarding our own decisions. Moving on... It is the behavior afterwards that had me focused on. For now, we've had some bits and snippets of Mashiro's life prior to Sakurasou. For example, there was the one the image of her standing in front of everyone, while they snap pictures of her. It looked glamorous, didn't it? And this time, we get a character in Rita, who can shed a whole lot of light on that art life of hers. It is also interesting to note Rita had performed "Mashiro Duty" before as well. Mashiro was in a particular world through her art work; and perhaps, she no longer wants to be a part of that. Rita is a part of that old world, and Mashiro does not want to go back. Ironically, she might find herself in a similar position within the manga circles; but that is not acquired yet (assuming IF). This time, Sorata is in Rita's old role. Ultimately, this will play out based on what he does. Quote:
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2012-12-06, 17:54 | Link #214 |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: 42° 10' N (Latitude) 87° 33' W (Longitude)
Age: 45
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Yes. There's a lot more in question, other than "Which girl should Sorata do it with?" "Next" Instead, they're essentially life questions -- that we ourselves deal with.
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2012-12-06, 18:05 | Link #215 | |
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Location: Redgrave City
Age: 35
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33 years and counting, you're not getting any younger...
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2012-12-06, 18:24 | Link #216 | ||
sleepyhead
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
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Yes I agree with you, upbringing, social circles all play a big role. And also, I'm pretty sure (for all the convenient accusations of "selfish") most people on the side of "Mashiro should not listen to Rita" really have no issue with someone listening to the opinion of their family, loved ones and friends. However, I really don't see how there's any reason in the series so far to believe Rita is real "family" for Mashiro, or even that friendly with her. These are the semantics I see,
You then have (the very quick) scheming, plotting and meddling. She's not asking Mashiro to make the choice, she's not making Mashiro see some goodness of looking at her fandom, she's forcing Mashiro to choose her. At best she's her former de facto family; ie. room mate, single person to talk to, etc. Someone which one would be happy to see, but at the same time, not necessarily too close. Hence the hug, and prompt door to the face. There's plenty of talk how "Mashiro should listen to <the majority>" yet how is a single loud voice helping her. Because that's how it is, really. Imagine if the tables were flipped, and all of Sakurasou was in favor of her going back to England and painting and Rita was neutral. Mashiro would suddenly have a lot more opinions on which to base her toughts on. What does she have now? Rita and the big shadow she conveniently cast behind her. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Rita is necesarilly lying here, and even if she is there's obviously truth in what she's saying, but Rita is not the art world, her views are simplistic at best. Listening to Rita is not synonymous with listening to "the world", it's just Rita, and what Rita wants. With regard to your last point, about how if at first, and second you don't succeed, "try harder", in my views that's considered extremely disrespectful and rude; especially when it's something the other person has no claim on. The whole cartoony "universal simplification theory" of one's life, morals, and values, is also not part of the values I was brought up with. People are not just these amercan movie stereotypes. Quote:
* back to lurking
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2012-12-06, 20:24 | Link #217 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
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And sorry, but I don't like the way you worded Rita's intention (or action). It just makes it sound so bad imo. It is in truth we still don't have the whole picture of Rita's motive yet, so I don't want make a claim. For me, now that I thought about it, there's a hint to the fear factor in Rita's action. Ultimately, I think she's just afraid that Mashiro will let go off the paint brush forever, given her talent, she is worried about that, and she went out out of her way genuinely because she cares for Mashiro and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm a bit upset that people just don't see her caring side, but instead just judge and doubt her intentions/actions. I think a lot of people here just taking it for granted, but coming herself all the way to Japan from the UK is actually not that small of a deal financially, physically and emontionally (I came to UK to study as well, so trust me on this). For a person to go that far, I just find it is really hard to call that person not genuine. I just think that Rita just wishes to see Mashiro paint and be successful in her life then be happy, that's just simply the way she believes so. I don't think Rita tries to do this for the world, but for Mashiro (maybe a bit of her own self-satisfaction as well), It just her own way of caring for her. Convincing her to going back to London is just a simple solution Rita came up to supress that fear I said above. If Mashiro can show a bit of compromise and tell Rita that will continue fine art seriously even in Japan and Sakurasou. I think it would play out very differently and Mashiro would not even need to go back to London. If you have impression that Rita flirting with Sorata is forcing Shiina to go back, then sorry, I personally don't even take that whole thing seriously. For me it's just a harmless prank she played on both Mashiro and Sorata (admitedly they are quite fun to tease). I mean when Shiina confronted Rita near the end about her sleeping in Sorata's room, Rita let it go quite easily imo, if she really wants to take advantage of Sorata being Mashiro's weakness, she would have done it differently. Adn when she took the folks to the gallery, that is just one basic trick of persuasion, to get more people on her side, that way she can convince Mashiro more easily. We do this all the time in real life, wisdom of the crowd, as always. Quote:
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You can always ignore others and go on with your life. It still can work out that way too, but for me it is just not ideal. I want to do thinsg I love with the blessing of the people who cares for me. Quote:
Why Sakurasou is more important than the life she had lived comfortably in London? Why Sakurasou is more important than using her talent to be successful in life? Do you feel happy in Sakurasou? If so, why? What is it in London that we lack? Those would be my answer for Mashiro if I were Rita, I think I would need to hear the answer from Mashiro's lips, not somebody else telling me. And I'm sorry, but I don't get your part about them avoiding each other or Rita did looking out for Mashira bit.
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Last edited by Zavie; 2012-12-06 at 22:16. |
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2012-12-07, 01:49 | Link #218 | |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
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2012-12-07, 03:27 | Link #220 | |
Lost in my dreams...
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 37
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I'm sorry, but Rita's motivations are very much in question here, and one can not in good conscience claim any sort of consideration for Mashiro's well being to be a major driving force of her actions. The episode didn't show anything of the sort. The episode didn't show consideration for Mashiro's feelings even being on the radar, as far as Rita is concerned. (Though I get that some people don't consider that as actually important over here.) No, I don't believe Rita is there because of honest Altruism and concern over Mashiro. She's concerned about Mashiro's talent as a painter, for whatever reason, not Mashiro as a person. That's the impression I got of her, and I honestly don't see the episode contradicting that in its portrayal of Rita. Scheming and underhanded, while a bit strong choice of words, is exactly how she acted. First she tried to impose her will upon Mashiro, and when that didn't work, instead of actually making even a pretense of attempt to understand why Mashiro feels the way she does about remaining here where she is, she's attempting a backdoor entry through Sorata by trying to pull what appears as the local support rug from under Mashiro's feet, in a bit to add even more external pressure to Mashiro. Yes, the slammed door in her face was honestly what she deserved, though it is likely to take a while for the rest to catch on, as Mashiro has been shown herself to be a better judge of character than those around her. Rita didn't arrive as a concerned friend. Well, she may be concerned, but she's not concerned about Mashiro. That she is in Japan simply shows how far she is willing to go to achieve her goal of having Mashiro returned to England and back to painting. Why she feels so strongly on the issue we will have to wait to find out, but no doubt has to do with Mashiro having "broken her" and Rita no longer painting again. Probably because she felt inferior next to Mashiro and proceeded to live through her paintings as Mashiro's roommate and "friend", and now she can't accept that Mashiro has possibly moved on and left Rita empty handed. There's likely more to it than that, but implications seem to point to things around those lines. We will probably have Rita cracked open before this arc is over and will know for sure, but I find it quite implausible that altruism tops the list of her reasoning for being here. Like everyone else she is there for her own needs, wrapped up in a package that she is doing it for the betterment of the art world, to make it an easier sell. But actually caring for Mashiro, as opposed to Mashiro's talent? No, the episode didn't leave that impression.
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