Searching for very specific anime (spoilers)

[KholdStare]

Note that this thread contains lots of spoilers. There are lots of criteria for the anime I'm looking for which can't all be satisfied, but I would be grateful if someone can offer a few that come close.

I'm looking for an anime with a love triangle (or harem) with a main relationship established. The guy in the main relationship has to be unfaithful. The main girl goes through depression, angst, and emotional trauma. She then becomes unstable and commits violent feats to others, either real or fantasy. There would be a suicide or attempted suicide scene. The other girl must have some background in the story with events dedicated to her. The anime may end with them getting back together or not, it doesn't matter.

Spoiler for Explanations of criteria and examples:

a) Love triangle/harem with main relationship: Example would be Sakurasou no Pet na Kanojo or Clannad, where we know who the expected "winning" girl is.

b) Guy is unfaithful: This can either be cheating, or the guy is not yet committed to her which makes her frustrated. The guy must be knowingly unfaithful, and not just a typical clueless male lead. Example of non-committal: Tsutsumi Kyousuke from ef - a tale of memories.

c) Girl is emotionally distressed: I don't mean just sadness, but really deep shit, such as it evolves into a drinking habit. Examples: Cross Yuuki from Vampire Knight or Nishikino Mayumi from Bokura wa Minna Kawaisou

d) Girl becomes violent: The girl takes out her anger on others, either through feats of her own or through her fantasy. Example: Saionji Sekai from School Days, and Kirigoe Mima from Perfect Blue.

e) Suicide: The suicide scene must be on screen, not off-screen like Amane Misa. It can just be an attempt that ends in a failure. An example is Furude Rika in Higurashi no Naku Koro ni, and Elsa DeSica from Gunslinger Girl.

f) The other girl is relevant: Basically, it cannot just be an anime about 2 people with an unnamed third wheel.

EDIT: If it's a love triangle, any of the two girls can have the criteria I listed above.

Anime I've considered:

Kimi ga Nozomu Eien: If Haruka had more screen time, then this could have worked. There's no violence or suicide, but the PTSD was shown well.

School Days: This is the closest one, although I'm wondering if there's anything better. I'm not looking for someone to go on a killing rampage as an act of revenge. Instead, she becomes depressed enough to want to end her own life, but others may be hurt in the process.

Gunslinger Girl: If we're talking about a suicide scene, then this would be a good one. The problem is that there is just 2 people, and no 3rd girl was involved.

SaiKano: Same as above, the guy isn't unfaithful, but originally detached for other reasons. The conflict in emotions was almost what I wanted, but there was no 3rd girl.

AnoHana: Story-wise, Matsuyuki Atsumu and Tsurumi Chiriko are perfect examples. However, Chiriko never turned violent.

The above spoiler contains major plot spoilers for the following anime: Sakurasou no Pet na Kanojo, Clannad, ef - a tale of memories, Vampire Knight, School Days, Perfect Blue, Higurashi no Naku Koro ni, Gunslinger Girl, Kimi ga Nozomu Eien, Saishuu Heiki Kanojo, and Ano Hi Mita Hana no Namae wo Bokutachi wa Mada Shiranai.

I would appreciate any suggestions!

(No I'm not a serial murderer.)

[Sackett]

Huh... that's... hard to fill.

Mirai Nikki has all but (f) and is rather weak on (a).

Mawaru Penguindrum has all of the elements, but it's because the initial pairings are wrong, so it's not the main male lead that rejects the main female lead.

Oh!

Neon Genesis Evangelion w/ End of Evangelion.

Of course the romance isn't the focus, but that is pretty much exactly what happened.

[jdennis007]

Have you tried Shuffle, it fits most of your criteria.

[Triple_R]

The Book Girl film doesn't fit everything you're looking for, but I think it might give you something reasonably close to what you want. You can read a plot synopsis of it here.

Kimi no iro Machi after its final timeskip is somewhat close to what you're looking for. You could just watch it from the first post-final timeskip episode on to get something fairly close to what you're looking for. Alas, I forget which episode that is.


It's kind of strange there doesn't appear to be more anime like this. It seems like the perfect sort of story for a Mari Okada to write.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

It's kind of strange there doesn't appear to be more anime like this. It seems like the perfect sort of story for a Mari Okada to write.

I was actually going to recommend True Tears since I thought it came somewhat close to his criteria but just less severe...


Bungaku Shoujo is about the closest I can think of though.

Otherwise, this might help:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...nedIntoSuicide

[Triple_R]

^^ You're right. True Tears fits what he's looking for pretty well. I guess Okada did write something like this.

[Kotohono]

Seconding Book Girl it is definitely the closest anime to what you're looking for that I can think of. Also seconding Mawaru Penguindrum it covers a fair bit of this too.

White Album 2 should qualify for what you're looking for as well.

[KholdStare]

Thanks for everyone's suggestions so far. Here's my status on the anime mentioned:

True Tears: I've watched this, although I don't remember...any violent acts or suicide... Maybe it's been a long time and I have to review it.

I have never watched Book Girl, Mawaru Penguindrum, or Mirai Nikki. I knew there were some anime that I skipped over entirely!

I've watched the original Neon Genesis Evangelion but not End of Evangelion or any of the other movies/OVAs after the main series. The main series wasn't focused on romance, but I'm hoping the sequels (is that what they are?) do.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by KholdStare

Thanks for everyone's suggestions so far. Here's my status on the anime mentioned:

True Tears: I've watched this, although I don't remember...any violent acts or suicide... Maybe it's been a long time and I have to review it.

Spoiler for Minor True Tears spoiler:

Well, the losing girl did jump out of a tree in an act of depression, and get herself badly injured, IIRC. I wouldn't classify it as a "suicide attempt", but it showcased severe emotional pain, I think.

[wontaek]

I think 2 anime worth investigating may be

The legendary Glass mask

http://myanimelist.net/anime/1974/Gl...men_%282005%29

and Rose of Versailles

http://myanimelist.net/anime/338/Rose_of_Versailles

[Flower]

The strangest thing for me is that there are actually some pretty close answers to the super specific question the OP asked to begin with.

Bugaku Shoujo is a good recommendation imo. Definitely give a try. ^^

[Dawnstorm]

Hm, if you put all the elements you have in your original post into a mixer and give it a good twirl, something very much like Myself; Yourself comes out. It has pretty much all the elements you state, but none of them are lined up the way you want them to be.

[Xarvi]

School Days.This is the closest one.

[Sackett]

Originally Posted by KholdStare

I've watched the original Neon Genesis Evangelion but not End of Evangelion or any of the other movies/OVAs after the main series. The main series wasn't focused on romance, but I'm hoping the sequels (is that what they are?) do.

Not really. Although End of Evangelion does give completion to the romantic subtext between Asuka and Shinji.

If you haven't watch End then I strongly suggest you do.

Spoiler for Detailed analysis of the Jungian aspects of Shinji and Asuka's romance. Extenstive spoilers for both the show and End of Evangelian.:

I happen to be one of those people who likes almost everyone in NGE- except Gendo and Yui. I like Rei, I like Asuka, and I like Shinji.

To me however I just can't see Rei as Shinji's Love Interest. This is because Eva is very Jungian, and Asuka is clearly Shinji's anima as represented by a Love Interest, while Shinji is clearly Asuka's animus.

I can understand the confusion, since in the first six episodes Rei is presented as Shinji's anima. However, while the anima is often the Love Interest, other common anima figures include younger sisters, daughters, and for particularly young protagonists even the mother. In my opinion Rei during the first six episodes is a rather ambiguous anima figure. Still I would judge her as primarily a younger sister type of anima.

Rei is a great anima figure for Shinji in his early stages, representing his inner self at the start of the show. Silent and withdrawn, abused and neglected, yet still beautiful and brave. In episode one, Shinji is called upon to protect Rei, and he does so- this represents his Call to Adventure. By the end of episode six Shinji has completed this development in working with Rei to defend others.

While Rei is Shinji's anima figure in the first six episodes, the groundwork was also laid for Rei's future role in the rest of the series as one of Shinji's mother figures. Rei's similar appearance to Yui, Gendo's wife and Shinji's mother, combined with Rei's relationship with Gendo, in which she clearly serves as Gendo's anima figure, sets up a conflict between Father and Son over the Mother. In the final confrontation Gendo demonstrates his utter depravity by sacrificing his anima figure, and Rei representing the Mother chooses Shinji over Gendo. Culminating in Rei merging with Lilith, becoming Eve, the Mother of All Living. As this Eve figure Rei then absorbs all life on Earth (representing the retreat of mankind into the womb), and then giving birth to first Shinji, and then Asuka, as they are reborn into the world. Rei as a mother figure is even explicitly stated for us when Shinji tells her that she reminds him of a mother.

Asuka on the other hand shows up in episode eight, and quickly establishes herself as Shinji's other half. They have very similar tragic backgrounds; they both identify piloting the Eva as providing their worth and value in life. In other aspects they are mirror images of each other. Asuka is a female dominated by her male aspects; Shinji is a male dominated by his female aspects. (This is why gender flipping of the Eva pilots is considered so illuminating). Shinji wants to run away from everything, Asuka wants to attack everything- flight and fight. (Rei represents the third way of dealing with threats - mental resistance - and shows the classic signs of emotional repression and indifference to death that mark that unhealthy state. This is another layer to the symbolic psychology of Eva, but does not matter much to the topic of romance.)

There comes a point in every man's life when he needs to leave his home and go out into the world to make his way, including finding his mate: The Other who becomes part of him. Asuka is clearly set up as the mysterious woman that Shinji cannot understand yet is deeply attracted to. Essentially she is the anima of the man Shinji must become. The rest of the series can be interpreted as Shinji struggling with this development, continually tempted to run back to his mother figures (Rei and Misato), and then turning around and trying to connect with Asuka who he doesn't understand but needs to become one with.

The reason Shinji goes to Asuka in the hospital is not because she is the only one left, but because Shinji is no longer complete within the bounds of his mother figures, and he feels the need for his Love Interest anima. Shinji's interaction with Asuka in Instrumentality represents Shinji's hatred and rejection of himself, culminating in his attack on his anima and the strangling of her. When Shinji learns to accept himself he leaves Instrumentality but is left alone and desolate without his anima. Then Asuka is returned to him, and the final scene represents the reconciliation between Shinji and his inner anima. Shinji is still in a place where he feels the need to destroy himself, but then his anima reaches up to caress him, signalling that she accepts him, even his disgusting elements. Shinji is now whole, and thus the show ends on a happy note.

This would probably be more clear except that NGE adopts a very ambitious storytelling goal. Unlike most such stories Asuka is not merely an anima figure playing out her role in the drama of the main protagonist hero. Asuka is the heroine protagonist of her own story that mirrors the hero protagonist. As such, Shinji represents her animus, and Asuka too must struggle with meeting her other half, a mysterious man who she cannot understand, yet is deeply attracted to. While Shinji must deal with accepting responsibility for his strength (ie Shinji needs to "man up"), Asuka struggles with accepting her weakness and allowing others to protect her. This is of course aggravated by Shinji's wimpy demeanor, as compared to Kaji's more mature manhood.

Despite Shinji's weakness, he does continually come to rescue her. Which is why the Mind Rape scene is so devastating for Asuka. Her hero did not come rescue her, yet as she later complains, he does try to rescue Rei (Shinji's mother figure- thus representing the struggle between wife and mother in law). This is also devastating to Shinji as he is restrained by his father from protecting her, forced to watch his anima figure be violated. This is the scene that breaks the bonds created by their previous interactions over the previous dozen episodes, and causes the schism that needs to be healed before they can be reconciled. Asuka rejects her animus (Shinji) during Instrumentality as unworthy of her, a false animus who didn't protect her, and sees her as a sex object instead of respecting her as you would a wife and lover. It is implied by the caress while Shinji is strangling her, that Asuka forgives Shinji, and decided to rejoin him once Shinji had matured enough to leave Instrumentality, and thus they are reunited and Asuka is made whole.

Personally I found the decision to have both the anima and animus as protagonists in their own interacting stories elevates Neon Genesis Evangelion above the more common melodramas. It's truer to real life, in which it is not just about doing the right thing and then your Love Interest accepts you and off you go into the happy ending. Instead, real life requires both the man and the woman to choose to accept the other. This creates a lot of angst, as you might be ready to form a bond with the other person, but what if they aren't ready to bond with you?

As for Rei's initial role as the anima, that is a common motif in Coming of Age stories, for the younger sister to have the anima role in early parts of the hero's story, and to later be replaced as the anima by the Love Interest.

One of the things that clearly marks Asuka out as the Love Interest of Shinji is that she is the only female who is never depicted as a mother figure to Shinji.

Spoiler for Answers to common objections:

Answers to points raised above:

1: Rei is more mysterious.

I would say that from an objective viewpoint, and particularly to the viewer, Rei is an archetypal "mysterious woman", far more so than Asuka.

However, from the viewpoint of Shinji, Asuka fits the "women are incomprehensible and a mystery" category far more. Shinji in particular finds Asuka confusing and mysterious- in the typical way that a man finds his Love Interest mysterious. Misato is seen by Shinji as a mystery as well, but in the sense that a son can never truly know or understand his mother. Rei however, as a character, apart from her mysterious origin and physical nature, is a mystery to Shinji in the first six episodes, but after that becomes the person Shinji is comfortable with- representing family, a known element. Which is one of the reasons Shinji is so shaken by Rei III, as suddenly someone he feels familiar with becomes a stranger.

2: Asuka is not a protagonist of her own story.

Clearly Shinji is the main character and the focus of the main story. However, I stand by my statement that Asuka is not just a supporting character playing out the role of the anima for Shinji. She is the heroine of her own Coming of Age story, one severely truncated, and dependent on things we already know from watching Shinji's story, but she acts to independently to be an exclusively supportive character. Misato is another character who also has her own (truncated) story, starring her as the heroine. This is most clearly demonstrated by the last episodes during Instrumentality. While Shinji was the focus, both Misato and Asuka received some extensive analysis- sitting on the chair and being asked questions with revealing monologues.

Rei did have some elements of her own storyline, specifically Episodes 1-6 combined with the episode she sacrifices herself in to save Shinji. Gendo also to some extent starred in a tragedy.

The others were pretty much strictly support characters, with the possible exception of Kaji as an example of Hero of Another Story.

Great stories usually combine other storylines into a greater whole. Lord of the Rings is a good example of this. Frodo and Sam are the main storyline, but Aragon, Merry and Pippin, and even Eowyn all have their own storylines.

3: Asuka and Shinji would not work in real life

Eva is so symbolic (and I don't mean the faux symbolism, I mean the real stuff) that I have trouble seeing Shinji and Asuka in non-symbolic lights. However, if they were real I could not with any certainty predict how well their relationship would work. No doubt Asuka would indeed be abusive towards Shinji, and Shinji would probably just take it, but I can't help but see that they both seem more whole together than apart. Shinji may be more comfortable, more safe with Rei, but Asuka gives Shinji enlivenment and greater drive to be something. I noticed that after episode six, almost all of Shinji's initiatives to "man up" where driven by a desire to impress Asuka. (Plus I fall into the camp that classifies Rei as a half-sister to Shinji, and thus definitely in the incest category.)

This is no rejection of Rei. I'd say I myself am more often attracted to a "Rei type" than an "Asuka type". I tend to think though that people have to choose for themselves, and I think Shinji would clearly choose Asuka over Rei, and I can't say it's a bad choice for him.

Rebuild is... confusing.

There are a lot of arguments as to what it is. Officially it is presented as a retelling of the story. Thus Rebuild 1 pretty closely follows the original 6 episodes, although there are some differences that seemed to imply we were going somewhere else. Rebuild 2 was following along with the rest of the show, if reworked and narrowed in focus to fit the movie format, when suddenly we went off the rails into a completely new story. Rebuild 3 was... Gainax. Pure Gainax crack. I don't think anyone knows what to think. Some people have pointed out hints in Rebuild 1 and 2 that strongly suggest this is a sequel instead of a remake.

Spoiler for My theory: Spoilers for Rebuild 1, 2, and 3:

I'm just going to tell myself that this is an angst induced Third-Impact dream that Shinji is having during the original series. Fits the kind of dream he'd have at that point.

Didn't you notice the extra-intensity and brightness compared to the TV Series? The detailed and choreographed action scenes? It's almost surreal.

And think about the characters: Asuka being both nicer and more awesome? Kawrou saving him? Ayanami opening up to him? We get to see Toji's sister and she's all okay? Shinji being more assertive and confident?

Clearly Rebuild 1 was Shinji replaying his past history, but with him as a cooler and better hero, and connecting more with Ayanami. Rebuild 2 was full blown fantasy with Asuka being awesomely cool, dressing in sexy plugsuits, and then being nice to him.

But Shinji's mind started to reject this, he couldn't accept a happy ending because Shinji knows he's worthless, and so things begin to go wrong. Asuka got into Unit 4. Rei got caught up in a 3rd Impact Scenario.

No! Shinji resists this ending! He'll make it better, he'll fix it. This time he won't fail! Kaworu will help!

Rebuild 3: Shinji can't keep the fantasy going. He's a failure. He knows he's a failure. He knows he caused 3rd Impact (in End of Evangelion not just Rebuild 3), and he's slowly coming to accept it. It hurts. It hurts so bad. Misato is so cold and distant. Rei is different somehow (an exaggerated effect compared to what Rei III was really like). All the character actions that are out of character is just Shinji projecting his fear about how they'd react knowing he failed to prevent 3rd Impact.

Kaworu is his friend though. Kaworu will help him. Kaworu will love him. Kaworu has a plan that will fix everything, save everyone, and put it all right again. Then Kaworu dies. Shinji killed him. Because Shinji was a coward, and so Kaworu had to die for him. And the world is a horrible horrible place. Because I, Shinji, am a horrible person and I have destroyed the world. I hate myself.

Oh look, Asuka has to look out for me again. Asuka! Maybe Asuka will save me!

Hmmm.... it's even more convincing as I write it all out. Maybe this is the dream Shinji had during Third Impact? You know, sort of a visual depiction of the internal conflict that we saw take place on a folding chair and ended in Congratulations?

ow does Mari fit into the dream theme?

You know I complained in Rebuild 2 about how Mari was introduced and then she wasn't really developed. My complaint wasn't that there was a new character, nor that she was a bad character, but that we didn't really know anything about her.

I was hoping that would change in Rebuild 3. Did it? Not much. So it's still hard to figure out Mari.

So how could Mari fit into the dream theory? I have a few ideas, from least likely to most likely:

1: She could be Shinji's conception of how he's afraid Asuka might be: Not really attached to him, kind of pities him (puppy-kun), a fierce warrior focused on battle, does not see him as her equal.

2: She could be Shinji's conception of what he think everyone wants him to be: A berserker warrior who doesn't have any fear of battle. A long range support unit to Asuka the Princess. Female, so she fits in with all the rest of the girl team instead of being the only male. She's a typical shounen protagonist, yet she's not able to save the world either. Cause she's still a representation of Shinji, and Shinji thinks he sucks.

3: Mari is Asuka's projection into this strange dream-like state. Since it seemed to be the real Asuka in 3rd Impact during the TV Series, maybe this is a shared dream between Asuka and Shinji. Mari is Asuka's creation to represent a replacement for Shinji. Female to avoid all those weird boy-girl feelings that Shinji stirs up.

Mari comes from Kaji, (who doesn't seem to appear again at all), thus representing coming from Asuka's parental figure. She's a brave berserker warrior, like Shinji at the times Asuka most admires him, only better because she doesn't have all that angst. She calls Asuka Princess and lets Asuka take the lead and do all the coolest stuff. She's long range support like Asuka wanted Shinji to be, essentially Asuka's sidekick. She's just a little late all the time, allowing Asuka to show off even more.

Mari also seems to know about Asuka's true feelings for Shinji, and is encouraging of Asuka's affections. Mari is free of Asuka's repressions, and can sniff Shinji and say how much she likes his smell. Mari is protective of Shinji, and can pilot Unit 2. Lots of things seem to hint very strongly that Mari is connected to Asuka as well as Shinji.

Whether to watch or not... eh, I think they are rather messy and confusing. Much more so then the original series. I also feel the story flow isn't too good, supporting characters are hardly developed, and there are a lot of good starts of character development for the main cast that then go nowhere. The animation is incredible though.

Sum-up: It's in the same category as the Star Wars prequels in my book.

Spoiler for Detailed review of Rebuild: Spoilers for Rebuild 1 and 2:

My problem with Rebuild 2.0 (1.0 was fine) is that it just doesn't have a good story flow.

1: It depends too much on people knowing the details of the first Evangelion series. Otherwise a lot of things go right over your head.

2: It depends too much on flashy graphics to make up for the jerky nature of the plot.

These two things are such a problem that actually from what I've seen people who never saw the first Eva series enjoyed it more, but that's because they thought it was nothing more then giant mecha with flashy explosions.

Understand, I don't object to it being different. I thought the new Asuka had some interesting potential. Rei's relationship with Gendo and trying to bring him and Shinji together, that was interesting too. Mari was an intriguing character. And some of the fights were much better.

But what happened with all those new things? It was an emotional twist of the knife to have Asuka piloting Eva 4. The scene leading to that should have played to that. Instead Asuka was turned into a sex symbol and then destroyed, in what was clearly a big F-U to the crazy Eva fanatics that sexualized Asuka into a fetish. It was very cleverly done, and I understand the sentiment, heck I half agree with it, but I don't watch movies to see creators twist the story to stick it to the fanboys, and I especially didn't think Asuka deserved to be collateral damage in it all. Plus it wasted most of Asuka's new depiction on an internal fan war between the creator and his fandom. You have this new take on Asuka, and then don't do anything with it!

Rei, Gendo, and Shinji? Interesting possibilities, but they didn't actually go anywhere with it, which thinking on it might actually be a good thing as it would really change the nature of the show. But then why did they waste time setting it up?

Mari? She enters as an intriguing new character, and leaves as the same intriguing new character. We didn't really learn anything about her. She's still a blank slate. Neither good nor bad, except that she took up screen time, and we still don't know anything about her. Another loose thread that goes nowhere. Starting to see a pattern?

I don't dislike Rebuild 2.0 because it's different, I disliked it because it sucked. Dangling plot threads, over the top visuals, gratuitous in-fandom commentary, and underdeveloped new characters, I can get those in any Hollywood blockbuster. I expect better from Eva. Almost as disappointing as the Star Wars prequels.

Now maybe Anno will prove me wrong, and Rebuild 3 will make it all make sense, with Rebuild 2 as a build up movie, but I'm doubting it.

Rebuild 1 was just Eva updated with some intriguing new ways of telling the same story. Rebuild 2 seemed to me a movie made by a creative writer who had some great ideas, but couldn't tie them up right, but because he's Anno, and it's Eva, and no matter what it will make money, so everyone decided to just throw it together and hope it works, instead of saying: "no, this sucks compared to what you normally write, go rewrite it till it doesn't."

Yeah... exactly like the Star Wars prequels....

[frivolity]

Kokoro Connect fits your criteria very loosely. There's a love triangle with a somewhat-established pairing, an uncommitted guy (arguably two uncommitted guys in two separate pairings), three distressed girls that use mild violence, and a scene that resembles suicide.

However, the show is heavy on drama with romance taking a slight backseat. The criteria that you're looking for are mostly used as plot elements without necessarily impacting the themes of the show. Also, the suicide scene isn't really a major focus either, and may not fit the classic convention of a suicide.