The Final Thoughts & Overall Series Impressions of Haruhi Suzumiya

[edkedkedk]

Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did you just say Endless Eight is the first thing you watched with Haruhi, and you ended up liking the series?

Well, yes and no actually. In accordance with my strange behavior I first watched the 2009 new episodes before going back to the 2006 ones. And the first ever full episode I watched was Endless Eight Part One (don't think they call it that, but...), which seemed like a simple enough, nice episode. I proceeded to jump back to Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody, then going back to Endless Eight Parts Two, Three and Four, finally giving up and going all the way to the end of Endless Eight just to see the ending.

I didn't understand the angry comments posted at first, and one comment that stuck with me was 'Well, I hope y'all enjoyed this episode, because you're gonna watch it 7 more times'.

On a side note, this episode didn't announce what factions each of the characters belonged to, so I immediately liked Yuki. I sympathized her because Kyon said

Spoiler for Endless Eight:

in response to why Yuki bought the Ultraman mask, 'She probably felt connected to it in some way. As an alien.'

I thought he was being mean to her because she was quiet

[Heatth]

Originally Posted by edkedkedk

I thought he was being mean to her because she was quiet

Hahahahahha! Well, I guess it is what happen when you pick things by the middle. You don't need to use spoiler tag for this, btw.

Wait, that mean you started watching without having any idea of what was going on? And your second episode was Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody? Man, that must have been an very interesting way to watch the series.

[dragon4dudes]

Too bad it wasn't watching an episode after drawing it out of a hat or something. Now that would be really interesting.

[edkedkedk]

Originally Posted by Heatth

Wait, that mean you started watching without having any idea of what was going on? And your second episode was Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody? Man, that must have been an very interesting way to watch the series.

Well, not exactly... I did have some clue on what the series is about, just that the episode I watched didn't match

I figured, since I liked the second of the new episodes I might as well start from the first one. Which was in retrospect a good decision. Watching two Endless Eight episodes in a row would have been just plain confusing

[CoolKidsClub]

just finished season 1...didnt like it that much but love Nagato and mizuki tho

[Seitsuki]

Not all see the Light on their first go. But give the Word of the Empress enough time to grow in your heart and you'll see differently :D
..and with that being the case you might wanna put off S2 for a bit while your faith consolidates cos it probably can't take it at this point

[edkedkedk]

Originally Posted by mikita

Not all see the Light on their first go. But give the Word of the Empress enough time to grow in your heart and you'll see differently
..and with that being the case you might wanna put off S2 for a bit while your faith consolidates cos it probably can't take it at this point

You got that right. Even those who have seen the Light gave up on it after watching S2.

Seriously, what's with all the figurine breaking

[OkamiNoKaze]

I still say, the ending of endless 8 was as powerful as it was because of the angst and anticipation for those that actually stuck with it. the sense of relief when Kyon finally came to his realization, made the whole trip worth it. That seems to be the case with The Haruhi series, even in the first season, it isn't until you see it as a whole, especially if you watched out of order, for the story to make sense, and to understand why they did what they did.

[roriconfan]

Originally Posted by OkamiNoKaze

I still say, the ending of endless 8 was as powerful as it was because of the angst and anticipation for those that actually stuck with it. the sense of relief when Kyon finally came to his realization, made the whole trip worth it. That seems to be the case with The Haruhi series, even in the first season, it isn't until you see it as a whole, especially if you watched out of order, for the story to make sense, and to understand why they did what they did.

The sum is better than its parts routine? No thank you. I am not going to consider a series like Pokemon to be great because after a million episodes Ash saves the universe in the last 5 minutes. I like series where every episode is enjoyable. Not Bleach and Naruto dragged to infinity storylines that look great when you think about them as a whole but are snoringly boring while watching them.

[Bill Bones]

Originally Posted by roriconfan

The sum is better than its parts routine? No thank you. I am not going to consider a series like Pokemon to be great because after a million episodes Ash saves the universe in the last 5 minutes. I like series where every episode is enjoyable. Not Bleach and Naruto dragged to infinity storylines that look great when you think about them as a whole but are snoringly boring while watching them.

Man, this series which you didn't like seriously steals your effort & time. I can't but crawl in horror at what may you do whenever you start talking about some series you actually liked...

[Ice Block]

Originally Posted by roriconfan

I am not going to consider a series like Pokemon to be great because after a million episodes Ash saves the universe in the last 5 minutes. I like series where every episode is enjoyable. Not Bleach and Naruto dragged to infinity storylines that look great when you think about them as a whole but are snoringly boring while watching them.

Sorry, but if you look close enough, we're not talking about Pokemon, Bleach, and Naruto.

[Sute443]

Originally Posted by Ice Block

Sorry, but if you look close enough, we're not talking about Pokemon, Bleach, and Naruto.

Sorry, but if you actually paid attention to what he was saying instead of cutting off the important part of what he said, you'd realize he was using something called an "analogy." Analogies are these very interesting things in which you use similar-but-more-readily-understood items to substitute for more complicated or delicate ones.

Pokemon, Bleach, and Naruto all have large fandoms. They are also infamous for taking ages to do anything and having massive amounts of filler. Their fans may say that the storylines are worth it. Essentially, they say that the endings are good enough to retroactively justify the rest of the arc. The quote you mangled was in response to this same sort of argument being applied to Endless Eight, and subscribed to the same idea held by critics of those series: that each episode should be able to entertain in-and-of itself. The analogy is apt.

[Heatth]

Originally Posted by roriconfan

The sum is better than its parts routine? No thank you. I am not going to consider a series like Pokemon to be great because after a million episodes Ash saves the universe in the last 5 minutes. I like series where every episode is enjoyable. Not Bleach and Naruto dragged to infinity storylines that look great when you think about them as a whole but are snoringly boring while watching them.

You are right. However, Endless Eight episodes are just a tip of what Haruhi is. In the end, Haruhi is still the oposite of Bleach, Naruto and whatever. Also, even Endless Eight, even for a casual viewer, at last 2, maybe 3, episodes are enjoyable by thenselves: the first (just a normal episode), the second (the last one but with a interesting, twist.) and the last one (most awesome last 5 minutes ever).

[roriconfan]

The problem with any "the sum is better than its parts" story is that it has a low rewatchability rate. For example (or analogy, or whatever) I consider Rurouni Kenshin to have a very good story and interesting characters. I really enjoyed the series as a whole. But everytime I tried to rewatch it, I was skipping almost 90% of the episodes as I found them unimportant. That is how I believe most regard E8. Seriously, who is going to bother watching all the episodes again? Good idea, ok, but who is going to watch them again? Without replay value, a series can only be judged on an emotional level based only "after" you have watched the entire series.

Have you ever felt joy and relief when something boring or dragged is finally over? Like "finally, the boring parts/fillers are over, now the series is great again"? Take DBZ for example (or analogy, or whatever) where many episodes between major battles were just for tension building? Very good to keep you waiting for the big stuff to happen... the first time! Now that DBKai is out, they took out all those episodes. Why? Because as nice tension building as they were the first time, they have absolutely no replay value! Who would watch them? "Take them out, go for the key events" was the main idea and although I didn't like it at first, I now see it was the right thing to do.

Now let's go over for another example/analogy. The Vision of Escaflowne. Every episode had something to offer. And it is such a multi-layered series, you definately can't remember all of it. I watched it 4 times and still can't memorize all the briliance in that series.

Back to the remake reharsh of Haruhi. What did the second series do? It gave the exact same material to the most part, plus it inserted 7,5 episodes of zero rewatchability episodes. Double fail or what?
"What were they thinking?"
"The fans will like it, no matter what it is" is the answer. Well, I'm no fan of the original and I surely like only anime I plan to watch a second time. And there is no chance in hell I plan to watch Haruhi ever again. There is nothing to offer me with a second watch. NGE did because it was too complicated to understand the first time (or fifth, lol). Some may say it is "pretencious crap" or whatever (as the disappove note wrote) but it offered me far more reason to watch it again than... err... random school gags with some pseudo-serious overtones. I am sure that the zealots of the series found a lot more than this but I am no zealot and like an atheist I find no higher meaning in the Holy Bible of Haruhism. As any other NGE hater doesn't find something there.

In a flash, repetitiveness is a killer of interest. Two or three times is fine. But 8??? Come on!

[Heatth]

Well, I believe it is an arror comparing Haruhi to Rurouni Kenshin or Naruto or Pokemon. You are right about that series and how a pain is to rewatch then (taht is why I usually just read the manga).Haruhi is not like that, however. Exept for Endless Eight, each episode hae new things happening and are interesting by their own.

Haruhi is not a case of "the sum is better than its parts". Exept by 5 or 6 in 28, each part is very good by their own. Heck, a good part is even stand alone (including most of the original 14 episodes), even if I don't believe this is an advantage.

Originally Posted by roriconfan

Back to the remake reharsh of Haruhi. What did the second series do? It gave the exact same material to the most part, plus it inserted 7,5 episodes of zero rewatchability episodes. Double fail or what?

I disagree here. First, it is not a remake, it is a re-airing. They did not remade the original episodes, just reaired then. If you have already seen then, you can just skip then, that is simple. They don't made a new DVD for the old episodes for that reason. Yeah, I believe the re-airing was a fail, but not as much as you.

About the new episodes, I agree taht the Endless Eight sucks. The only way, for me, to like then is just skiping most of it, just whacthing the first, the last and one of the middle (probably the 2nd or the 6th). But Sighs is awesome by their won merits.

[Ice Block]

Originally Posted by Sute443

The quote you mangled was in response to this same sort of argument being applied to Endless Eight, and subscribed to the same idea held by critics of those series: that each episode should be able to entertain in-and-of itself. The analogy is apt.

Nope. Comparing entire series to an isolated gimmick arc does not an apt analogy make. Even more, there was nothing in those shows that even came close to E8. If they happen to have had something closely comparable, feel free to inform and correct me.

And, how do you measure replay value?

• Can't get everything during first pass = high replay value?
• So many epic scenes = high replay value?
• Jokes that never get old = high replay value?
• etc...

IMO, Haruhi's replay value is somewhat like your FPS/RTS campaign. On the second pass, you try to pick out the easter eggs, or you pick a new watching order/strategy (2006 airing).

I agree that E8 has zero replay value for most, but for some people who did enjoy it, looking back at specific scenes and comparing minor differences gives it a little bit of replay value. You can't compare this to fillers, or whatever else, simply because there was never anything like this in the first place. This isn't your average "repetitive filler arc" after all.

And I don't think they had this "The fans will like it, no matter what it is" mentality. It's closer to "The fans will buy it, no matter what it is". E8 was not made to be liked. But for completion/collection purposes, people will buy it anyway.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Ice Block

Nope. Comparing entire series to an isolated gimmick arc does not an apt analogy make. Even more, there was nothing in those shows that even came close to E8. If they happen to have had something closely comparable, feel free to inform and correct me.

When this isolated arc takes up more than 50% of new content (whatever you wish to call the 2009 airing) and more than 25% of the overall content, some are bound to have issues.

[NoemiChan]

The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya is a good anime... but.... but.... Come on KYON!!!!!! Embrace her and tell her that you LOVE HER!!!!!!! That will make things Perfect

[keri]

Originally Posted by genjichan

The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya is a good anime... but.... but.... Come on KYON!!!!!! Embrace her and tell her that you LOVE HER!!!!!!! That will make things Perfect

You don't read the novels or manga, do you?

I hate to spoil things, but it's not really a spoiler, but you're gonna be waiting a looooong time for Kyon to act on his attraction to Haruhi.

[GMT]

Originally Posted by genjichan

The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya is a good anime... but.... but.... Come on KYON!!!!!! Embrace her and tell her that you LOVE HER!!!!!!! That will make things Perfect

Or cause the immediate end of the universe. Given how temperamental, moody, and up to her eyeballs in self-denial about her feelings Haruhi is; that outcome is just as likely as the "make things perfect" outcome.

This also ignores the fact that any romantic relationship between Haruhi and Kyon would be built on a huge stack of lies, as Kyon seems to have been thoroughly indoctrinated into the idea that Haruhi must be permanently kept in the dark about her role as OS kernel of the universe. I mean sure, it's possible to have a relationship where one party holds back huge secrets from the other. It's even possible for such a relationship to last until the "death do us part." On the other hand, it's far more likely for such a relationship to end dramatically. The sort of drama that would end up on some trashy daytime TV talk show. Or on a police record.