AnimeSuki Forums

synaesthetic · 2013-05-01, 03:51

This seems to be a really, really delicate issue on most forum communities so I'd appreciate some questions answered regarding the discussion and posting of these things.

I noticed a few threads concerning games that were in development and currently in the crowdfunding phase (like having a Kickstarter page). I was a bit surprised/pleased to see the link allowed, though regulated firmly so that it wouldn't become a spam-fest of advertisement and contribution pandering. I've also seen some indie game devs posting up threads about their original visual novels (also not free), and it's appeared to be tolerated as well.

My question is how far does this really go? If someone who frequents these parts were to, for instance, develop an indie game, publish a novel or author an original manga, would they be allowed to create a thread about it with similar restrictions? A thread dedicated to discussion of the work in question with a link to where it can be purchased in the OP (but the thread being a legit discussion thread)?

Haiprbim · 2013-05-01, 03:59

Thanks for the thread, synaesthetic, I thought about the same thing myself.
I think that everything is on a thin line here.

A thread which would purely allow the members to be notified about the game would be great, such as giving out the Name of it, the Cover Picture, a short Intro and maybe even the Link to the Official Site to learn more.

However, if a thread would include signs like the price, or even shouting suggestions like:

"Buy Now!"
"Pre-order available!"
"Only # Left On Stock!"

I think it could be seen as an advertisement at that time and would be taken down.
Again, I think it is a really thin line we are talking about here.

If I would be an Administrator, I would set direct rules of what you must and mustn't include when creating a thread like that.

As I've said, I would allow: The Name, A Cover Photo/Image, A Short Intro and maybe even a Link to the Official Site to check for more Info.

synaesthetic · 2013-05-01, 04:08

Yeah, I'm just saying, a description, info about the work in question and a link to where it can be obtained legally (or the Kickstarter page to contribute to the project). After that the thread goes purely into discussion mode.

Haiprbim · 2013-05-01, 04:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

Yeah, I'm just saying, a description, info about the work in question and a link to where it can be obtained legally (or the Kickstarter page to contribute to the project). After that the thread goes purely into discussion mode.

Exactly.
The other possible issue is if someone would start advertising in the middle of the discussion.
However, since not the whole thread would be ruined by that, only the post would be removed and the discussion would continue, so yeah, we are in an agreement.

hyl · 2013-05-01, 06:13

Wasn't this talked about before?
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=115124

synaesthetic · 2013-05-01, 15:27

That's only talking about Kickstarter, though.

If they're not going to allow me to link to the Kindle Store in a thread about my novel, then out of fairness, all the Kickstarter threads should be deleted. All the indie visual novel plug threads should also be deleted.

Triple_R · 2013-05-01, 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

That's only talking about Kickstarter, though.

If they're not going to allow me to link to the Kindle Store in a thread about my novel, then out of fairness, all the Kickstarter threads should be deleted. All the indie visual novel plug threads should also be deleted.

Personally, I think it would be best if you were allowed to do that.

Vexx · 2013-05-01, 17:02

I've been "rough drafting" my light novel series in the Art thread. When I do publish the reworked series -- I was planning to provide a link to the store ... or at least to a website about the work with links to the purchase points. (I'm probably a month away from publishing volume 1 pending the illustration issues)

I mean, people provide links to purchase points for goods all the time in the merchandise threads. To me, at least, the fact I'm giving the rough draft out for free (rather like Megatokyo publishes the webcomic for free but still sells books, shirts, etc) mitigates the issue somewhat (though I suppose it could be counter-argued that the whole thread is an advertisement of sorts, bleh).

Hmmmm, it is a good question. Have you been told you could not link by a mod, Syn?

***relentlessflame*** · 2013-05-01, 17:17

I'll at least say this much: if you're a regular participating member of this forum and you decide to sell some of your own "fan creations" that you discuss in your Fan Creations thread, we'll probably allow you to post a link to the store in that thread, and also to refer to it in your signature.

What we don't generally want is:
- people to create accounts to promote/advertise their own projects
- people to spam threads (or create threads in various sections) to advertise their projects

That being said, it was mentioned:

Quote:

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

I've also seen some indie game devs posting up threads about their original visual novels (also not free), and it's appeared to be tolerated as well.

Honestly, we shouldn't have allowed this, as it contravenes our No Advertising policy. Even if the thread is on-topic to the section, creating a thread to promote a project you're working on (particularly if you're trying to solicit for volunteers, referrals, views, or money) is a no-no. But, like I said, if it classifies as a "Fan Creation", then you could post about it in your own personal Fan Creation thread, as long as you're not just using the thread to push your wares.

The Kickstarter thing is still being treated a bit tentatively, as again we don't want people to use this site as a way of soliciting interest/funds. But if people are legitimately interested in discussing an idea at the planning/funding stages, then a limited mention to the project site in the original post should be okay.

I realize this is a bit of a murky distinction, but I hope you sort of see the line we're trying draw. We definitely don't want spam, but we recognize that not everything in this area necessarily qualifies as spam. It's hard to make an ironclad rule that will apply in every case.

Daniel E. · 2013-05-01, 18:58

Quote:

I've also seen some indie game devs posting up threads about their original visual novels (also not free), and it's appeared to be tolerated as well.

As I mentioned in the other thread, each case will be handled individually. If a thread is created only to advertise, or ask for donations/hits whatever (soliciting) then you can be certain that said thread will be deleted on the spot.

synaesthetic · 2013-05-01, 21:14

I made this thread to find out before I did anything just to make sure it was okay.

It's not a Fan Creation, obviously, since it's an original work rather than fanfiction. Somehow original work by posters ends up there instead of somewhere else, I suppose because it's the only place it can really go without being outright banned from the site.

I'm trying to figure out exactly how to raise awareness for my work from a VERY indie perspective. I can't pay for Google Ads or anything like that--way too poor. Without promotion from my end it's just going to be absorbed into the mass of indie eBooks in the Kindle Store.

Considering the content and focus of the story, the folks who patronize these fine forums are an ideal audience, so I'd like to figure out some way to reach them. If not directly through the forums itself, perhaps some other way might be possible...

This warrants some thought as I approach a finished state on the novel...

Vexx · 2013-05-01, 23:49

You might try publishing the introductory chapter as a post? Maybe some extracts? That way you don't have to "give much up" but provide a teaser to gen up interest.

And that way people can provide some feedback that might help you tune the work (if you want that) and you've met the criteria of posting an artistic product and not just a "come buy this!" advert. (just brainstorming how it might work ... literary stuff isn't quite like a piece of visual art)

***relentlessflame*** · 2013-05-01, 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexx

You might try publishing the introductory chapter as a post? Maybe some extracts? That way you don't have to "give much up" but provide a teaser to gen up interest.

And that way people can provide some feedback that might help you tune the work (if you want that) and you've met the criteria of posting an artistic product and not just a "come buy this!" advert. (just brainstorming how it might work ... literary stuff isn't quite like a piece of visual art)

And in such a case, I would still put in "Fan Creations" even if it isn't a derivative work. Original creations can also go in the "Fan Creations" section.

Vexx · 2013-05-02, 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

And in such a case, I would still put in "Fan Creations" even if it isn't a derivative work. Original creations can also go in the "Fan Creations" section.

Oops, ya I meant that "in Fan Creations", forgot to say it.

RRW · 2013-05-04, 10:14

so let me get it straight we not allowed to put kickstarter link?

Daniel E. · 2013-05-04, 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by RRW

so let me get it straight we not allowed to put kickstarter link?

Check out the current guidelines I included in this thread back at the games section:

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=119263

Things may get adjusted/changed as time passes, btw. Might turn it into a sticky (the guidelines) down the road as well.

RRW · 2013-05-06, 05:24

okay so no marketing or anti marketing

2013-05-01, 03:51	Link #1
synaesthetic blinded by blood Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oakland, CA Age: 39	For-profit works/Kickstarter/indie stuff on animesuki? This seems to be a really, really delicate issue on most forum communities so I'd appreciate some questions answered regarding the discussion and posting of these things. I noticed a few threads concerning games that were in development and currently in the crowdfunding phase (like having a Kickstarter page). I was a bit surprised/pleased to see the link allowed, though regulated firmly so that it wouldn't become a spam-fest of advertisement and contribution pandering. I've also seen some indie game devs posting up threads about their original visual novels (also not free), and it's appeared to be tolerated as well. My question is how far does this really go? If someone who frequents these parts were to, for instance, develop an indie game, publish a novel or author an original manga, would they be allowed to create a thread about it with similar restrictions? A thread dedicated to discussion of the work in question with a link to where it can be purchased in the OP (but the thread being a legit discussion thread)? __________________ Indie science fiction author and all-around weirdo: Check out my original fiction here! Read an excerpt from my sci-fi novel Binary System!

2013-05-01, 04:08	Link #3
synaesthetic blinded by blood Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oakland, CA Age: 39	Yeah, I'm just saying, a description, info about the work in question and a link to where it can be obtained legally (or the Kickstarter page to contribute to the project). After that the thread goes purely into discussion mode. __________________ Indie science fiction author and all-around weirdo: Check out my original fiction here! Read an excerpt from my sci-fi novel Binary System!

2013-05-01, 15:27	Link #6
synaesthetic blinded by blood Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oakland, CA Age: 39	That's only talking about Kickstarter, though. If they're not going to allow me to link to the Kindle Store in a thread about my novel, then out of fairness, all the Kickstarter threads should be deleted. All the indie visual novel plug threads should also be deleted. __________________ Indie science fiction author and all-around weirdo: Check out my original fiction here! Read an excerpt from my sci-fi novel Binary System!

2013-05-01, 17:02	Link #8
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 66	I've been "rough drafting" my light novel series in the Art thread. When I do publish the reworked series -- I was planning to provide a link to the store ... or at least to a website about the work with links to the purchase points. (I'm probably a month away from publishing volume 1 pending the illustration issues) I mean, people provide links to purchase points for goods all the time in the merchandise threads. To me, at least, the fact I'm giving the rough draft out for free (rather like Megatokyo publishes the webcomic for free but still sells books, shirts, etc) mitigates the issue somewhat (though I suppose it could be counter-argued that the whole thread is an advertisement of sorts, bleh). Hmmmm, it is a good question. Have you been told you could not link by a mod, Syn? __________________ "It Really IS Rocket Science", Novel series rough drafts; vol. 1 thru vol. 3 complete Volume 4 in work, Visit the thread for short stories!

2013-05-01, 21:14	Link #11
synaesthetic blinded by blood Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oakland, CA Age: 39	I made this thread to find out before I did anything just to make sure it was okay. It's not a Fan Creation, obviously, since it's an original work rather than fanfiction. Somehow original work by posters ends up there instead of somewhere else, I suppose because it's the only place it can really go without being outright banned from the site. I'm trying to figure out exactly how to raise awareness for my work from a VERY indie perspective. I can't pay for Google Ads or anything like that--way too poor. Without promotion from my end it's just going to be absorbed into the mass of indie eBooks in the Kindle Store. Considering the content and focus of the story, the folks who patronize these fine forums are an ideal audience, so I'd like to figure out some way to reach them. If not directly through the forums itself, perhaps some other way might be possible... This warrants some thought as I approach a finished state on the novel... __________________ Indie science fiction author and all-around weirdo: Check out my original fiction here! Read an excerpt from my sci-fi novel Binary System!

2013-05-01, 03:59	Link #2
Haiprbim Banned Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Visual Dream Panire	Thanks for the thread, synaesthetic, I thought about the same thing myself. I think that everything is on a thin line here. A thread which would purely allow the members to be notified about the game would be great, such as giving out the Name of it, the Cover Picture, a short Intro and maybe even the Link to the Official Site to learn more. However, if a thread would include signs like the price, or even shouting suggestions like: "Buy Now!" "Pre-order available!" "Only # Left On Stock!" I think it could be seen as an advertisement at that time and would be taken down. Again, I think it is a really thin line we are talking about here. If I would be an Administrator, I would set direct rules of what you must and mustn't include when creating a thread like that. As I've said, I would allow: The Name, A Cover Photo/Image, A Short Intro and maybe even a Link to the Official Site to check for more Info.

2013-05-01, 06:13	Link #5
hyl reading #hikaributts Join Date: Feb 2009	Wasn't this talked about before? http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=115124

2013-05-01, 23:49	Link #12
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 66	You might try publishing the introductory chapter as a post? Maybe some extracts? That way you don't have to "give much up" but provide a teaser to gen up interest. And that way people can provide some feedback that might help you tune the work (if you want that) and you've met the criteria of posting an artistic product and not just a "come buy this!" advert. (just brainstorming how it might work ... literary stuff isn't quite like a piece of visual art) __________________ "It Really IS Rocket Science", Novel series rough drafts; vol. 1 thru vol. 3 complete Volume 4 in work, Visit the thread for short stories!