To Aru Majutsu no Index - Character Discussion - Kamijo Touma

[KeiWaiYu]

I got it! Thank you chaos for answering my question.

So about Touma's character... I am actually surprised that some people called him a goody two shoes. I mean this is the guy who fight dirty and cheat when he can.

[demino_hellsin]

They assume he is because he goes around helping people when it doesn't profit him. Though in truth he does gain something in a way.

[Acer]

Originally Posted by KeiWaiYu

I got it! Thank you chaos for answering my question.

So about Touma's character... I am actually surprised that some people called him a goody two shoes. I mean this is the guy who fight dirty and cheat when he can.

he is a street fighter, this series the only one who can compete with him in this regard is the Hamazura, and we all know how treacherous are street fighters

[Hiss13]

Originally Posted by demino_hellsin

They assume he is because he goes around helping people when it doesn't profit him. Though in truth he does gain something in a way.

It strokes his ego and he gets a new girl for the harem from it.
So, yeah. It's a self-satisfaction thing.

[KeiWaiYu]

Originally Posted by demino_hellsin

They assume he is because he goes around helping people when it doesn't profit him. Though in truth he does gain something in a way.

Well... that is very vague. By that description Kiritsugu can be said as a goody two shoes too.

[Kenju of the Right]

Originally Posted by Hiss13

It strokes his ego and he gets a new girl for the harem from it.
So, yeah. It's a self-satisfaction thing.

don't try to make it sound so rotten, whether he gets satisfaction from it or not
or gets a new girl to the harem or not won't stop hhim

[Draco Spirit]

I thought it was funny in NT9 how he consider all his harem as bonds of friendship and didn't think about them in a romantic sense at all!

[dniv]

Kamijou Touma really doesn't think the girls like him like that. Otherwise, they would stop harassing him. (he doesn't get that their harassment signifies that they like him ).

Regardless, Touma isn't exactly selfish. He isn't going for money, fame, or power.

As someone else put it, he has been trying to go for something more formless. What exactly that is hasn't been revealed yet, though we can probably make a good guess.

He may be self-serving at times, but that isn't to say that he isn't altruistic.

[demino_hellsin]

He doesn't think in terms of right or wrong. At least he didn't until lately. He sticks with what his gut tells him. The world could boil for all he cared. Amazingly the past volumes that embroiled him in larger conflicts forced him to look at thing on a bigger scale. Then he forgot how he used to see things on a personal scale. It's like learning to see the forest but utterly forgetting about the trees.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by KeiWaiYu

Well... that is very vague. By that description Kiritsugu can be said as a goody two shoes too.

Kiritsugu is a failed hero.

For all of his power he couldn't save a single girl that he cares about because he's so hung up on the concept of "For the Greater Good".

[Hiss13]

Originally Posted by Kenju of the Right

don't try to make it sound so rotten, whether he gets satisfaction from it or not
or gets a new girl to the harem or not won't stop hhim

Believe me, I am not trying to make it sound rotten. If anything, the desire for self-satisfaction is a very human thing. In the end, Touma always felt some degree of satisfaction after each incident he got involved in. At the same time, Touma admitted that he never took action simply because it was the right thing to do. He took action simply because he wanted to. That IS selfish. That IS desiring some form of self-satisfaction. However, it is not necessarily a bad thing. In Touma's case, it did not even start having too many negative repercussions until Gremlin's actions in Hawaii.

Even this is an example of that.

Originally Posted by NT9

He could not accept a future where people lived in peace after accepting a girl’s slaughter with a smile.

-----

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Kiritsugu is a failed hero.

For all of his power he couldn't save a single girl that he cares about because he's so hung up on the concept of "For the Greater Good".

In other words, Touma is a pretty decent foil for Kiritsugu in that respect. I can see that.

[KeiWaiYu]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Kiritsugu is a failed hero.

For all of his power he couldn't save a single girl that he cares about because he's so hung up on the concept of "For the Greater Good".

I agree with that

Now that I think about it, it's kinda ironic. One is a person who wanted to become a hero, yet in the end couldn't save anything that matters to himself. the other is person who doesn't exactly believe the concept of hero yet in the end managed to save and bring smiles to those that matters to him.

[Draco Spirit]

On the NT9 quote...

Course he couldn't accept such a world. Because Touma believes that 'girl being slaughtered' deserved to smile too. He doesn't buy into "greater good", he buys into "doing good that he can see". And if he see someone in trouble in front of him.. he saves them!

[Darkmousy0198]

Originally Posted by KeiWaiYu

I agree with that

Now that I think about it, it's kinda ironic. One is a person who wanted to become a hero, yet in the end couldn't save anything that matters to himself. the other is person who doesn't exactly believe the concept of hero yet in the end managed to save and bring smiles to those that matters to him.

I think that's more of a difference in the overall tone of the story.

To aru is a very optimistic verse. In the end, everyone ends up being a good guy going about things the wrong way (unless your name is Kihara). Every villain can be persuaded they are wrong by just spouting some idealistic crap and punching them in the face.

Fate/Zero was very pessimistic, if something could go wrong, it would go worse. It mocked the concept of "lawful good", mercy and forgiveness are a weakness etc.

[demino_hellsin]

That's a type of hero that isn't too common in anime. Probably the reason I began to follow the series. Touma just felt so different from every other bog standard shonen hero or any overly nihilistic manly man genius of seinen.

[KeiWaiYu]

Originally Posted by Darkmousy0198

I think that's more of a difference in the overall tone of the story.

To aru is a very optimistic verse. In the end, everyone ends up being a good guy going about things the wrong way (unless your name is Kihara). Every villain can be persuaded they are wrong by just spouting some idealistic crap and punching them in the face.

Fate/Zero was very pessimistic, if something could go wrong, it would go worse. It mocked the concept of "lawful good", mercy and forgiveness are a weakness etc.

I am the type who doesn't put much stock in either cynicsm or pessimism. True a healthy dose of those is needed for life. Blind idealism, blind trust, and blind optimism is something I also considered bad. But I considered cynic and pessimistic people to be worse, both won't save yourself let alone anyone else.

I just wanted to write that. No offense to you just stating my opinion and let's stop this I am straying off topic again

Anyway is there a thread about touma's power (IB) or I can just ask here?

[LG-MAX]

Originally Posted by Darkmousy0198

I think that's more of a difference in the overall tone of the story.

To aru is a very optimistic verse. In the end, everyone ends up being a good guy going about things the wrong way (unless your name is Kihara). Every villain can be persuaded they are wrong by just spouting some idealistic crap and punching them in the face.

Fate/Zero was very pessimistic, if something could go wrong, it would go worse. It mocked the concept of "lawful good", mercy and forgiveness are a weakness etc.

I think you're seeing it in a superficial way, I can give you several examples of these "villains" that even after spending so still killing / fighting /etc.

I always considered the characters of Index "human", even nice guys do bad things, and even bad people have something good. an example is the Marian a sociopath who kills people in a much more horrible way the Accelerator, but still cared for friends.

Why do people need to be just good or bad? this is a children's thinking in my opinion.

[Darkmousy0198]

Originally Posted by LG-MAX

I think you're seeing it in a superficial way, I can give you several examples of these "villains" that even after spending so still killing / fighting /etc.

I always considered the characters of Index "human", even nice guys do bad things, and even bad people have something good. an example is the Marian a sociopath who kills people in a much more horrible way the Accelerator, but still cared for friends.

Why do people need to be just good or bad? this is a children's thinking in my opinion.

I used a wrong term, replace the word "villain" with "antagonist". Better?

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Darkmousy0198

I used a wrong term, replace the word "villain" with "antagonist". Better?

In the end, I'm not really sure if Touma touching people with his Imagine Breaker actually negates the "effects" that the magic/supernatural powers has had on them which distorted their personality.

I've always felt that this was true. Touma has touched every villain somehow. This is true. Even if he didn't punch them. He has touched their face somehow. So I've always thought it to be like that.

Otherwise, I just thought that Touma convinced people to return to normal because these villains became the way they were because of great tragedy that they experienced. For this reason, Touma, through "breaking their illusions" could reach out to them.

Also, Touma himself last volume said that what he told villains WAS idealistic crap just for the sake of the moment to convince them otherwise. So it isn't that he believes that his words can convince them either; it's that he's trying to make them hesitate so he can try to beat them and then talk some sense into them... which is different from actually just using words to convince them they are wrong.

[allfictions]

Not to get into an argument with Darkmousy0198, but

Every villain can be persuaded they are wrong by just spouting some idealistic crap and punching them in the face.

Is you generalizing/dumbing the Verse:

-Izzard didn't let Touma a chance to talk
-Biaggio was a lost cause so Touma didn't bother
-Vento's illusion was fake
-Although Terra had his illusion broken he didn't change
-Acqua of course wasn't having any of it

And let's not get into New Testament where Touma breaks fewer people's illusions.