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Old 2014-07-16, 10:30   Link #4961
Suryce
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Of course, Alluka's power is very convenient in solving Gon's problem and wasn't foreshadowed at all before, but... so what? I'm honestly asking, what's the problem? I see everybody says "it's an asspull" and then they add nothing else as if all had been said when actually no point has been made. If you think that this new arc introducing new elements hurts the story in some way, then go all the way and explain how.

So far, this whole deal looks to me like a huge fallacy, along with some kind of religious thinking, like: "a story element with proper foreshadowing is good, so a story element with no foreshadowing is bad. ALWAYS"

Edit: As for Alluka being OP or whatever, I have one answer: Meruem. Didn't prevent him from making a compelling story. (This kind of confirms my fears, you guys seem to think there is only one good way to write a story...)
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Old 2014-07-16, 10:38   Link #4962
revive4563
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I prefer the drama in closed space like ant arc, because it has a fewer useless paragraphs.
But I see, Killua takes on the burden (3 requests by Alluka) to heal Gon. It is the best solution of that.
Furthermore, the plot is realized by a Killua's little sibling (safest way)'s creepy ability.
So it gives a natural impression that s/he is there from the start, in spite of s/he is a new character in fact.
Tohashi has a really good sense of that. I think best sequal of ant arc.

But...Why they don't change desperately those worn-out songs? Just Why?
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Old 2014-07-16, 10:45   Link #4963
zeniselv
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the alluka magic-fix-all existence would had me dropping the series, if madoka magica havent made me less apprehensive to the concept at the time, but it was still hard to swallow, even considering togashi's clever writing.
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Old 2014-07-16, 11:04   Link #4964
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suryce View Post
Of course, Alluka's power is very convenient in solving Gon's problem and wasn't foreshadowed at all before, but... so what? I'm honestly asking, what's the problem?
The problem is that it undermines the gravity and significance of the show. When a character does something, just like in real life, there are consequences. When you add an element that somehow distorts or breaks this logic, the show loses meaning.

Gon made his choice. It was stupid and foolish, and as a result he lost a lot. Now, I don't want him to die, but I don't think the consequences of his decision should be completely erased either. It'd really cheapen what he went through.

That's the problem with asspulls. They cheapen the themes, sometimes character development as well.

But yeah, let's wait and see how Togashi handles this.
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Old 2014-07-16, 11:15   Link #4965
Gaulek
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There's a lot of consequences for a wish.
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Old 2014-07-16, 11:16   Link #4966
kakakka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Gon made his choice. It was stupid and foolish, and as a result he lost a lot. Now, I don't want him to die, but I don't think the consequences of his decision should be completely erased either. It'd really cheapen what he went through.
That does not make sense. Gon is dying as a consequence of his actions. That is what he is going to get for being foolish. I think that is grave enough. And to prove it further, OP ability is needed to remove it. That's hardly cheap.
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Old 2014-07-16, 11:18   Link #4967
Gaulek
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And there's a lot of mysteries, Silva said that she isn't human that she is from somewhere else.
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Old 2014-07-16, 11:26   Link #4968
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by kakakka View Post
That does not make sense. Gon is dying as a consequence of his actions. That is what he is going to get for being foolish. I think that is grave enough. And to prove it further, OP ability is needed to remove it. That's hardly cheap.
If you can save Gon with a wish, the consequences of his actions are erased.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2014-07-16 at 11:40.
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Old 2014-07-16, 11:36   Link #4969
kakakka
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
If you can save Gon with a wish, the consequences of his actions are erased.
Keep in mind, he's also suffering right now. Knov and etc are keeping him alive. He's feeling the consequence at this moment. Death is the inevitable endpoint. If Gon is saved, that does not changed the fact that he lived through the consequence of his actions. Minus the death part.
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Old 2014-07-16, 11:37   Link #4970
Cloudedmind
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaulek View Post
There's a lot of consequences for a wish.
And this is why it doesn't really bother me. We've already been told that Alluka's powers and the use of her powers come with their own set of consequences. If anything the consequences are just being moved from one person to another. And of course once Gon get's better he isn't going to abandon Killua, so whatever Killua has to do to make up for his wish, Gon will be right there with him. So, right now I'm more interested in seeing what price Killua's going to have to pay for his wish.
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Old 2014-07-16, 11:45   Link #4971
Suryce
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
The problem is that it undermines the gravity and significance of the show. When a character does something, just like in real life, there are consequences. When you add an element that somehow distorts or breaks this logic, the show loses meaning.

Gon made his choice. It was stupid and foolish, and as a result he lost a lot. Now, I don't want him to die, but I don't think the consequences of his decision should be completely erased either. It'd really cheapen what he went through.

That's the problem with asspulls. They cheapen the themes, sometimes character development as well.

But yeah, let's wait and see how Togashi handles this.

The thing is, Gon is suffering through the consequences of his actions. And using Alluka to heal him has consequences of its own. The way Alluka's ability works, plus her life being targeted by Illumi, makes for a much more complex and challenging solution to Gon's problems than people seem to realize.
As for character development, Gon's happened during Chimera Ant. As I was already trying to point out in my previous post, the Election is a new arc, and as the opening shows, Killua is the protagonist right now, and the most important character he is interacting and having a meaningful relationship with right now is Alluka. The development of those two is what's important right now. Gon has already told his story (about becoming the villain of the story because of his shonen rage, which is also an inherent part of the overall narrative of the CA arc, with the whole reversal between the morality of the Ants and the humans), its Killua and Alluka's turn to tell theirs now.

[Edit: Writing this also made me realize: the consequences of Gon's actions aren't that important. Compare to the rest of the CA arc (or this arc itself so far), there is no particular theme attached to Gon being stuck in bed unconscious and half-dead. In terms of story, the most important aspect of it actually is that it's setting up Killua and Alluka's story.]

As for "asspulls" cheapening the themes and character development, the show is full of proofs of the opposite, especially from the recent events of the Chimera Ant arc:
- The real Diego being alive all along is an "asspull", did it prevent it from driving the point of his appearance, which was that being an almighty ruler is not worth the effort when you can just live in the present moment?
- The Poor Man's Rose has only vague and roundabout foreshadowing, and yet it perfectly drives the point about the Chimera Ants having lost the battle against humanity from the very beginning because the humans have the malice to produce that kind of weapons.
- Komugi comes out of literally nowhere and the sole purpose of her character is to bring the King's humanity. Does that prevent her from achieving this goal perfectly?

Last edited by Suryce; 2014-07-16 at 12:01.
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Old 2014-07-16, 12:18   Link #4972
hamazura
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is aluka's ability even a NEN?
nen and alluka is like KI and dragon ball
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Old 2014-07-16, 12:50   Link #4973
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Suryce View Post
Edit: As for Alluka being OP or whatever, I have one answer: Meruem. Didn't prevent him from making a compelling story. (This kind of confirms my fears, you guys seem to think there is only one good way to write a story...)
As far as I'm concerned, it did prevent a compelling resolution. But YMMV.
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Old 2014-07-16, 18:24   Link #4974
Student no.0
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Originally Posted by hamazura View Post
is aluka's ability even a NEN?
nen and alluka is like KI and dragon ball
Definitely Specialist. Interestingly, this is pretty much the first time we've seen someone with an inborn ability to use Nen, without counting the Royal Guard and Meruem obviously. Having been locked up for most if her childhood, Alluka might be lowest of the Zoldyck's in combat ability.
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Old 2014-07-16, 18:28   Link #4975
Cloudedmind
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Student no.0 View Post
Definitely Specialist. Interestingly, this is pretty much the first time we've seen someone with an inborn ability to use Nen, without counting the Royal Guard and Meruem obviously. Having been locked up for most if her childhood, Alluka might be lowest of the Zoldyck's in combat ability.

There was that physic chick from the Troupe arc, and I'm pretty sure the show was hinting that Komugi was also unknowingly using Nen when playing gungi.
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Old 2014-07-16, 18:31   Link #4976
Student no.0
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Originally Posted by Cloudedmind View Post
There was that physic chick from the Troupe arc, and I'm pretty sure the show was hinting that Komugi was also unknowingly using Nen when playing gungi.
Oh yeah, Neon. I don't remember how long it was implied she'd been predicting the future for her Dad.

Not so sure about Komugi, since she seemed to have developed it while playing against Meruem. What was her power anyway? Clairvoyance?
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Old 2014-07-16, 18:52   Link #4977
Clarste
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Originally Posted by Student no.0 View Post
Oh yeah, Neon. I don't remember how long it was implied she'd been predicting the future for her Dad.

Not so sure about Komugi, since she seemed to have developed it while playing against Meruem. What was her power anyway? Clairvoyance?
Komugi's power was to play Gun-gi better. I guess you could call that Enhancement?
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Old 2014-07-17, 01:37   Link #4978
Anh_Minh
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I don't think she had an actual power. She just focused hard enough to deploy nen. It happens. (It's how Gon and Killua found objects to buy in York Shin.)
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Old 2014-07-17, 02:39   Link #4979
Clarste
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I don't think she had an actual power. She just focused hard enough to deploy nen. It happens. (It's how Gon and Killua found objects to buy in York Shin.)
I don't think there's a distinction between focusing hard enough to deploy nen and deploying your nen to focus harder. They're just two perspectives on the same natural process. Fundamentally, the use of nen makes people better. Stronger, healthier, longer lived. Even without a particular hatsu, deploying nen makes you better at being a person, which is why people who are especially good at things end up deploying nen. Or maybe that's why they're especially good at things? There's no difference.
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Old 2014-07-17, 03:38   Link #4980
Dengar
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^This.

Also, actual Nen abilities do sometimes occur naturally. Specialists in particular just seem to wake up one day realising they have a special power. (remember, Kurapica's Emperor Time was something that already existed before he trained in using it)

Also, as for Alluka being a "being of someplace else", and also this weird notion that her parents don't even know her gender... They were there when she was born, how would they NOT know?

What Silva said is a metaphor. You know, like one of those times when parents believe they gave birth to something not human.
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