Shion no Ou

[NoSanninWa]

Interesting. Thank you for all that.

Originally Posted by takodori

In shogi history, there are some famous dialogues during play between the players. It does not occur often. But it occured actually sometimes.

So, conversation is a part of shogi culture, unlike chess culture? Quite interesting.

[Proto]

I lol'ed very hard after seeing this photo. This would be almost impossible in a chess match. Heck, Bobby Fischer was famous for his absurd requests that press must almost stand 100m from the board in his world championship chess matches. In the most recent world matchess you often see at least a 10m minimum distance you must stand from where the 1st tier players are gaming. (you can actually stand near the boards of anything 2nd tier and down in an open tournament, but if someone merely seeing bothers you, you can ask the referee to ask him to leave). Personally I'm nowhere nearly as picky but I would definitely protest if a situation similar to the one in that photo arised in a match of mine. For god sake, at least turn the flashlights off

[SeijiSensei]

Is that Nikkaido-san in that photo?

I, too, found if implausble that she and Kamizono were playing alone together in a major tournament. In many other matches during this show we've seen timekeepers and transcribers with the players, but not this one between an upcoming young kishi and one of the most famous champions in shougi?

I've not heard Mizuno Risa's voice before this; her work to date has largely been in shows I've not seen. Her performance in ep. 9 is quite impressive, though. She takes Nikkaido through a wide range of emotions during the match. Being recruited to join Kawasumi and Paku might have been a bit intimidating, but she's held her own throughout the series and shone brightly when the spotlight was focused on her in this episode.

[Proto]

I, too, found if implausble that she and Kamizono were playing alone together in a major tournament. In many other matches during this show we've seen timekeepers and transcribers with the players, but not this one between an upcoming young kishi and one of the most famous champions in shougi?

I'd guess that was because this is an early round of a tournament, meaning you would have to have a timekeeper for every other match. if you do that in an early phase the number of wages you would have to pay would be too high On the other hand, many of the matches we've been seeing have been decisive matches, like the semifinals and finals of a tournament, and the pro qualification league final game. Though I agree you'd expect at least someone of the press to cover that game

[Shiroth]

It's been a while since we have seen this about of Shion in the series, episode 10 was a nice, interesting match. If this is going to end in two episodes, then i'm not surprised at all in the sudden murder case appearing again, though i still don't see how they'd end the tournament in such a short amount of time. I truly hope this'll end up being 22 episodes.

Once hot scene with Ayumi, though that was all. ;__;

[Onizuka-GTO]

Originally Posted by NoSanninWa

Interesting. Thank you for all that.

So, conversation is a part of shogi culture, unlike chess culture? Quite interesting.

its official. Shogi is sociable, chess is not.

fact.

[tlynnec]

Yeah, I also thought it was odd that Nikaido & Kamizono played without anyone else there. Thanks for all this info, its really fascinating.

On a barely related note: Live-evil is holding our second annual banner contest. If anyone here is artistically talented, please consider submitting a Shion banner! I'd really like to see at least one good one... Oh, and there are actual prizes. Link to contest is here: http://forum.live-evil.org/index.php/topic,1441.0.html Good luck!

[Seiryuu]

Wow. I must admit, I've never been much into chess & shougi. Unlike go, your objective isn't to come out ahead of your opponent, it's to kill him(figuratively speaking). However, it works so well with the mystery, and the mystery is so intriguing I can't help but be drawn in. It seems like they're putting forth a lot of effort to simultaneously place the culprit as someone among those we know and keep us from figuring who it is. For a while I thought it was Hani Satoru, but it seems the guy has different color hair.
This last episode was awesome. This murderer seems to be an entirely different class than any I've heard of. Some murderers will kill once and not again, usually because they had a specific reason to kill at that time and they don't really concern themselves too directly with things afterward, focusing more on getting out with their reward before the cops get them. Others kill without a clear reason, just for pleasure or some sort of vague satisfaction, and they can't help but kill over and over. This guy seems to have only killed that one time, considering there's no known fingerprint match, and yet he clearly didn't take off afterwards and still concerns himself with the people involved.
I can only think of two possibilities here. One is that his reason is directly linked to Shion and shougi, though I can't see how, and that's why he's still involved: his objective can still be reversed somehow. The other is that this is an unusual, sophisticated class of sadist sociopath. He takes satisfaction not from the actual crime or the reactions of his victims at the time, but rather from watching the events and situations resulting from his actions. Instead of killing someone else, he hangs close and enjoys watching as Shion constantly struggles with her past, trying to keep it from overcoming her completely.
Either way, I find it likely that this guy was directly involved in the creation of this tournament, and that this sudden burst of renewed action is partly due to the fact that Shion's growing up, becoming more capable, independent, skilled, and stable. Either her rise as a skilled player would pose a threat to him, or he doesn't want to see his masterpiece break from the hold he has on her. Either way, he's performing what you might call a mental rape, ripping away at her defenses and driving her more and more into the terror, until that night is all that's left in her mind.
I half-expect he's planning to finish with a match against her. As I recall, she saw him facing her over a board. Facing him in a match could be Shion's best chance of fitting all the features together and recognizing him. I could see her staring, horrified, at him and say her first words in 8 years: "i...i..i..it's you!"

[changeup]

Spoiler for speculation about the murderer:

So it's actually Satoru? Seems everything points to his direction...

Originally Posted by Seiryuu

Wow. I must admit, I've never been much into chess & shougi. Unlike go, your objective isn't to come out ahead of your opponent, it's to kill him(figuratively speaking). However, it works so well with the mystery, and the mystery is so intriguing I can't help but be drawn in. It seems like they're putting forth a lot of effort to simultaneously place the culprit as someone among those we know and keep us from figuring who it is. For a while I thought it was Hani Satoru, but it seems the guy has different color hair.
This last episode was awesome. This murderer seems to be an entirely different class than any I've heard of. Some murderers will kill once and not again, usually because they had a specific reason to kill at that time and they don't really concern themselves too directly with things afterward, focusing more on getting out with their reward before the cops get them. Others kill without a clear reason, just for pleasure or some sort of vague satisfaction, and they can't help but kill over and over. This guy seems to have only killed that one time, considering there's no known fingerprint match, and yet he clearly didn't take off afterwards and still concerns himself with the people involved.
I can only think of two possibilities here. One is that his reason is directly linked to Shion and shougi, though I can't see how, and that's why he's still involved: his objective can still be reversed somehow. The other is that this is an unusual, sophisticated class of sadist sociopath. He takes satisfaction not from the actual crime or the reactions of his victims at the time, but rather from watching the events and situations resulting from his actions. Instead of killing someone else, he hangs close and enjoys watching as Shion constantly struggles with her past, trying to keep it from overcoming her completely.
Either way, I find it likely that this guy was directly involved in the creation of this tournament, and that this sudden burst of renewed action is partly due to the fact that Shion's growing up, becoming more capable, independent, skilled, and stable. Either her rise as a skilled player would pose a threat to him, or he doesn't want to see his masterpiece break from the hold he has on her. Either way, he's performing what you might call a mental rape, ripping away at her defenses and driving her more and more into the terror, until that night is all that's left in her mind.
I half-expect he's planning to finish with a match against her. As I recall, she saw him facing her over a board. Facing him in a match could be Shion's best chance of fitting all the features together and recognizing him. I could see her staring, horrified, at him and say her first words in 8 years: "i...i..i..it's you!"

[SinsI]

Actually, since everything points at him - he's the the least possible candidate for being the murderer. But I think he does have a hand in the creation of this tournament.

[Proto]

Somehow I see it being Hani meijin, and Shion will only link all the hints once she sits down with him in a match. I have a prediction accuracy rate of 66.54%, so there.

[NoSanninWa]

Originally Posted by SinsI

Actually, since everything points at him - he's the the least possible candidate for being the murderer. But I think he does have a hand in the creation of this tournament.

Tournament creators are statistically more likely to be mass murderers?

[Seiryuu]

Yeah, what made me think it's not Satoru is the person we keep seeing seems to have brown or gray hair, not bright, yellow-blonde. Meijin could fit, and he'd definitely have the power and position to influence things even before the tournament, such as setting up the media to provide various provocations. Whoever it is, he doesn't seem to be terribly concerned about keeping his identity a secret. He's playing a dangerous game here, since if Shion doesn't break, she could easily be dragged back by all this to the incident, reviving her memories and making it possible for her to identify him. If he'd left her alone, she might have started to overcome the past without remembering it, and there'd be no way to catch him. Either he is something like the final villain in Inukami, patiently setting up a masterful work of terror and pain, or there's something about Shion that has him scared.
I wonder if Shion's parents knew about something that could've hurt him somehow. They may not have even known that there was any significance to what they knew. Shion could similarly possess such knowledge, and thus could ruin the culprit if she lets this secret she doesn't know she has out. The culprit seems too calculating to have only pleasure as a goal, so this could explain why he's trying to force her mind to focus on the incident. Even being identified as a killer could be preferable to the exposure of some sorts of secrets. If she overcomes the incident, she might not remember the culprit but she could remember other important things in her past, so the killer could be trying to overwhelm her with that memory so nothing else can come out.

[ThoHell]

The big show down is finally coming....next week! CAN'T WAIT! Gotta love Shion, even with all that suffering she's still as bright as a daisy!

[takodori]

According to the TV anime official site, there will be no airing of the next episode on December 29 2007 and January 5 2008. It does not mention to the date of airing it, but I think it's on January 12. Furthermore, there is still no information whether the episode 12 will be final or not there.

[GoldAlchemist]

After watching episode 11, i must say that Saori-san is so sweet!

Though it destroys the character development on Nikaidou-san at the same time. She doesn't feel exactly like the person we know since episode 1.

Judging from the progress in this episode and the preview scene, it's most unlikely to finish at episode 12. If the studio decides to end the series abruptly, i'm guessing that many of us would probably go what the ...

[Muddle!]

I honestly hope that it does somehow get more episodes, because twelve just doesn't seem like it will be able to cohesively tie things together. Of course they could always have a cliffhanger, but I can presume when it's unsure the show will get a second season that may annoy some people (me included ).

As for speculation about the murderer...

Spoiler for long winded murderer speculation:

Shion did make the comment about her dad's hands in episode 6 where they go on vacation, but I have problems seeing him as having any motive. Though I think someone made comments about him winning more after he adopted Shion I just don't think that he seems capable of murder when we see the flashbacks of him in the past. Granted that isn't really good evidence and I am not a detective so we'll see there.

With the recent developments in episodes 9 and 10 I am only getting more confused. The person who gave Suo the information about the king would have to have some connection to the murderer to know about that as the police stated. Plus from the small shots he seems to have similar hair to Hani-meijin not that this is any kind of strong evidence though . There is also the possibility that he found out the information by chance and is using it to try to take Shion out so he can play his brother in a match since he feels she is capable of beating him? I'm also unsure how to feel about Satoru he is just really creepy (in a good way ). It seems like it is too easy for it to be him.

So my far fetched nonsensical guess/theory is.... Kyoutarou-onii-chan did it! Maybe after Yasuoka called Shion's parents they didn't want her to play shougi. So in order to leave something for his rival Hani to use to help change the old-fashioned shougi association he killed her parents to somehow give her determination to keep playing?!? All this means is that I have no idea who to suspect so I guess we will just have to keep watching until we get more clues .

Sorry for that longwinded most likely pointless rambling

[Saleh]

Haven't seen episode 11 yet.

Originally Posted by Muddle!

So my far fetched nonsensical guess/theory is.... Kyoutarou-onii-chan did it! Maybe after Yasuoka called Shion's parents they didn't want her to play shougi. So in order to leave something for his rival Hani to use to help change the old-fashioned shougi association he killed her parents to somehow give her determination to keep playing?!? All this means is that I have no idea who to suspect so I guess we will just have to keep watching until we get more clues .

Sorry for that longwinded most likely pointless rambling

There were clear hints in ep6 that poor Kyou-onii-chan was already dead before Shion's parents died. By looking at him in episode 6 it looks like he went through a radioactive treatment. Shion's parents did accept Yasuoka's offer otherwise you wouldn't find a shogi board in their apartment. They didn't play shogi. So far, murderer could range from someone with no real motive like usual street thug, construction worker, Ayumi's father, Hani Satoru ... to someone with real motive like the Yasuakas.

If that guy who played against Honma sou is the killer then he isn't that calculative or cunning as he was expected to be. Leaving a very good trail and being confined to a specific area isn't the very good idea to begin with. Unless they want to show the whole tournament and develop other characters, they could wrap up the murder case in 12th episode. Choices have become very narrow already.

Originally Posted by ProtoMan

lol if it were Nikaido san then would she be able to concentrate in her shogi?

[Muddle!]

Originally Posted by Saleh

There were clear hints in ep6 that poor Kyou-onii-chan was already dead before Shion's parents died. By looking at him in episode 6 it looks like he went through a radioactive treatment. Shion's parents did accept Yasuoka's offer otherwise you wouldn't find a shogi board in their apartment. They didn't play shogi.

Haha I guess I shouldn't expect much from off the cuff guess work. I totally didn't think about the shougi board in Shion's apartment.

Originally Posted by Saleh

Unless they want to show the whole tournament and develop other characters, they could wrap up the murder case in 12th episode. Choices have become very narrow already.

I still hope it gets extended because I would like to see more character development, particularly for Ayumi.

Can anyone who has read the manga tell us about what volume the series is in now?

[Doughnuts]

Episode 10 goes up to chapter 21 of the manga (mid-Vol 4)