Sword Art Online - Episode 21 Discussion / Poll

[Insane]

Originally Posted by Clarste

I don't see how that follows at all. He seems to be more businessman than scientist. Paying people to research something doesn't require insight. Heck, labwork doesn't require much insight either. And don't get me started on the strange perception of neuroscience.

If anything, sugou is a thief. He stole sao database from Kayaba Akihiko and used it for his own profit in the form of ALO.

[SilverSyko]

Originally Posted by Clarste

I don't see how that follows at all. He seems to be more businessman than scientist. Paying people to research something doesn't require insight. Heck, labwork doesn't require much insight either. And don't get me started on the strange perception of neuroscience.

The guy is the leader of the project, I imagine he needs to have at least a decent understanding of what exactly he's paying his employees to research. You wouldn't invest money in something if you had no idea what it was right?

And even if Sugou isn't at the level to spot those oversights himself, what about his subordinates? Surely he must have a couple hundred employees doing this research for him no?

In short, someone who dabbles in advanced neuroscience should have the capacity to perceive and prepare for any of the foreseeable possibilities that the experiments they are conducting could go awry or be compromised.

[Swordstriker21]

Maybe he's just too busy ogling at the big picture to notice all the little details. Sometimes even the brightest minds make mistakes that lead to failure and regret. Though I do admit all the oversights he's making is making him look like a big time idiot.

[kyp275]

Originally Posted by SilverSyko

The guy is the leader of the project, I imagine he needs to have at least a decent understanding of what exactly he's paying his employees to research. You wouldn't invest money in something if you had no idea what it was right?

He's not a "leader" of the project in the sense of being the lead researcher, but rather as the boss so to speak.

And he's not footing the bill, the company is Asuna's dad's, not his.

what about his subordinates? Surely he must have a couple hundred employees doing this research for him no?

One does not run a secret underhanded research effort hidden even from your own company in a completely unrelated field by employing hundreds of workers, and thereby having to explain just what they're there for.

In short, someone who dabbles in advanced neuroscience should have the capacity to perceive and prepare for any of the foreseeable possibilities that the experiments they are conducting could go awry or be compromised.

just because someone is involved in an advanced scientific field does not mean they're smart and have great insight with everything they do, often times it's the complete opposite.

[~Yami~]

that tentacle monster... omg... kill it with fire!!!!

and Sugu's heart broke... in horrible way
I think she's trying to convince his bro to come to same high school with her.. but guess it's little impossible to do that

finally we enter the climax of ALO arc...

[MartianMage]

errmmm... so the area around the trunk is off-limits so you can't climb it and they put a wall in the cloud area so you can't fly to reach the top...

sooo... how do the game planners intend for players to reach the top then? =x

But then again maybe they never really to have players clear it... just a false hope...

[Swordstriker21]

Originally Posted by MartianMage

errmmm... so the area around the trunk is off-limits so you can't climb it and they put a wall in the cloud area so you can't fly to reach the top...

sooo... how do the game planners intend for players to reach the top then? =x

But then again maybe they never really to have players clear it... just a false hope...

There is a quest to go to the top of the tree by fighting guardian mobs. This was mentioned earlier and the whole point of the conflict between the Sylphs, Cait Siths and Salamanders in the earlier ep was to gain an ample advantage as well as as funds to challenge said quest. Though it wouldn't surprise me if this was just another case of "dangling a carrot before a rabbit". Leefa did mention that it was super hard and so far no race has been able to clear it for the past year no matter how hard they tried.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by kyp275

just because someone is involved in an advanced scientific field does not mean they're smart and have great insight with everything they do, often times it's the complete opposite.

I think it's easy to get focused on the blatant lapses in security and apparent poor judgement because we see the perspective of the protagonists and know that they're going to succeed. But realistically, if not for the fact that they're the protagonists, the odds would be amazingly in Sugou's favour. He's an Administrator with the ability to do whatever he pleases and he holds Asuna's life in his very hands. He didn't know that she would know what an Admin Access Panel would look like, or that there was an exploit with the key pad, and Asuna hasn't "tried anything" in all the months so far. Even smart people get complacent.

People who work in IT know just how lax *even IT people* are about security:
- Most people don't use secure passwords
- Most people use the same password on every site
- Most people don't have proper backups of their irreplaceable files
- Most people don't have any security on their smartphones
- Most people browse unencrypted WiFi without using any sort of encryption

Heck, I was reading something the other day that the vast majority of the laptops from one of the major U.S. government security agencies have unencrpyted hard drives. They hold and can give access to top national secrets! Plus how many server hacks have we had recently where they discovered that the passwords are stored in plain text, or using a trivial unsalted hash? Security through obscurity...

And if you don't want to talk about IT, I bet you that if I were to walk down the hall in my apartment building and randomly try to open doors, a bunch of them won't be locked. People are lazy, and they get complacent because they think "oh the outer door is locked". I was at a hotel the other day and they had a side door that said "locked 24-hours"... and it wasn't locked at all. And on and on...

tl;dr: Whatever stupid security lapses Sugou is demonstrating aren't out of the ordinary. Until now, he's had no reason to be at all paranoid, and most people don't take their security seriously until something bad happens. And if not for the fact that Asuna and Kirito are our protagonists and the whole story revolves around getting Asuna out of there, 99% of the time none of these lapses would have amounted to anything and he'd just get away with it. Of course this time he'll be burnt in the end, I'm sure, because the story requires it. But even smart people who should know better don't always take security seriously.

[SilverSyko]

Originally Posted by kyp275

He's not a "leader" of the project in the sense of being the lead researcher, but rather as the boss so to speak.

Well whatever his position, he's the one who explained the experiment in full to Asuna back several episodes ago, so the question of whether or not he understands what is being researched is rather moot. Seems to me he gets it just fine though.

And he's not footing the bill, the company is Asuna's dad's, not his.

One does not run a secret underhanded research effort hidden even from your own company in a completely unrelated field by employing hundreds of workers, and thereby having to explain just what they're there for.

This seems kind of odd to me that he's paying people for something he's not even aware about. Ah well, I suppose that there's people on the lower levels doing some shady shit in that case.

And okay I thought hundreds was a bit of an exaggeration. Then a couple dozen or so employees? I still think that's enough people.

just because someone is involved in an advanced scientific field does not mean they're smart and have great insight with everything they do, often times it's the complete opposite.

Not everything, only the field they specialize in and related things. Security coding in a game (what we are discussing) seems pretty relevant to the the method they are using to obtain their research data if you ask me.

[Dr. Casey]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

People who work in IT know just how lax *even IT people* are about security:
- Most people don't use secure passwords
- Most people use the same password on every site
- Most people don't have proper backups of their irreplaceable files
- Most people don't have any security on their smartphones
- Most people browse unencrypted WiFi without using any sort of encryption

I'm not guilty of those first three things (anymore)! I'm awesome. Though I had to be burned on all three of them before changing my habits.

[Swordstriker21]

Originally Posted by Dr. Casey

I'm not guilty of those first three things (anymore)! I'm awesome. Though I had to be burned on all three of them before changing my habits.

I'm sure that goes for most people too People never really learn until they experience something first hand. And Sugou is in a prime position of power.W/ all the cards in his favor I'm sure he's feeling pretty nigh invincible. I mean what can a single geeky high school kid do huh?

[The Green One]

All we need is Sugou to say,

And I would of gotten away with it too if it wasn't for you meddling kids! Oh and your private pixie too!

[Swordstriker21]

Originally Posted by The Green One

All we need is Sugou to say,

And I would of gotten away with it too if it wasn't for you meddling kids! Oh and your private pixie too!

Why does that sound strangely in character...

[novalysis]

Originally Posted by HandofFate

the author spends the end of every volume apologizing for not being a better writer everytime. I wouldn't take any of it seriously. Typical japanese humble humility is what I took from it all each time.

Have you even read the LN in the first place? If not, then I'd have to disagree that the author isn't getting better. He is.

If not, I think it's way better if you put this up as a point of discussion and contention in the Light Novel threads. I think it would prove especially productive there.

[Dr. Casey]

Naw, what Fate means is that the author himself says that he should be a better writer in the afterword. Artists are often silly people that don't give themselves enough credit.

[GundamZZ]

The lower security means easier to use by anyone. IT makes money by providing easy to use services. The tightened security may prevents the exploits as well as usability.

Sugou's team is twisted. They know they are doing illegal stuff. They also put themselves in tentacle monsters' shoes. They must go instance after watching occult adult anime many many times.

[Swordstriker21]

Anybody else noticing the part where Kirito and Sugu are making salad and as soon as he mentions he's going to see Asuna, Sugu tears a heart shaped lettuce in two. It was a little silly but at the same time a bit poignant don'tcha think

[orpheus2]

Looks we will be expecting a flood of doujins and fanarts for that tentacle scene.

Being Sugu is suffering.

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

I think it's easy to get focused on the blatant lapses in security and apparent poor judgement because we see the perspective of the protagonists and know that they're going to succeed. But realistically, if not for the fact that they're the protagonists, the odds would be amazingly in Sugou's favour. He's an Administrator with the ability to do whatever he pleases and he holds Asuna's life in his very hands. He didn't know that she would know what an Admin Access Panel would look like, or that there was an exploit with the key pad, and Asuna hasn't "tried anything" in all the months so far. Even smart people get complacent.

People who work in IT know just how lax *even IT people* are about security:
- Most people don't use secure passwords
- Most people use the same password on every site
- Most people don't have proper backups of their irreplaceable files
- Most people don't have any security on their smartphones
- Most people browse unencrypted WiFi without using any sort of encryption

Heck, I was reading something the other day that the vast majority of the laptops from one of the major U.S. government security agencies have unencrpyted hard drives. They hold and can give access to top national secrets! Plus how many server hacks have we had recently where they discovered that the passwords are stored in plain text, or using a trivial unsalted hash? Security through obscurity...

And if you don't want to talk about IT, I bet you that if I were to walk down the hall in my apartment building and randomly try to open doors, a bunch of them won't be locked. People are lazy, and they get complacent because they think "oh the outer door is locked". I was at a hotel the other day and they had a side door that said "locked 24-hours"... and it wasn't locked at all. And on and on...

tl;dr: Whatever stupid security lapses Sugou is demonstrating aren't out of the ordinary. Until now, he's had no reason to be at all paranoid, and most people don't take their security seriously until something bad happens. And if not for the fact that Asuna and Kirito are our protagonists and the whole story revolves around getting Asuna out of there, 99% of the time none of these lapses would have amounted to anything and he'd just get away with it. Of course this time he'll be burnt in the end, I'm sure, because the story requires it. But even smart people who should know better don't always take security seriously.

True. We all get careless unless something happens. It's pretty much normal.

Originally Posted by GundamZZ

The lower security means easier to use by anyone. IT makes money by providing easy to use services. The tightened security may prevents the exploits as well as usability.

Sugou's team is twisted. They know they are doing illegal stuff. They also put themselves in tentacle monsters' shoes. They must go instance after watching occult adult anime many many times.

Agreed. The one of the problems programmers face is the balancing usability and security. It's quite difficult to do so while meeting the demands of the client.

True. I am amazed how Asuna's father hired these people. Then again, employers do not usually check their employees' psychological state until it's too late.

[Anh_Minh]

Sugou was one of Kayaba's juniors, so he did have that wannabe mad scientist attitude, so I think he went up the research rather than business track.

But he's not a security expert, didn't hire one (the fewer people the better), and as far as he was concerned, the real risk was discovery from the outside, not escape. Even then, giving Asuna that much freedom's an indulgence. Like a smoking habit which you know is bad for you, he just couldn't help gloating at her.

And, while he runs that secret program, he also has to do his day job of VP of Recto - it's not like he has unlimited time to think about everything.

[Hiroi Sekai]

This episode was so damn bad, so many things just pissed me off here.

I'll start off by saying the Suguha being interested in Kirito is basically okay with me on an evaluative standpoint. Let's casually pass by the retarded tentacle scene that was so pointlessly shoved in for...whatever.

Starting with the villain, I've given up on giving any credit for the villain, who's about as dumb as an already dead goldfish. While he does have a few other things on his agenda, the big plan was to marry Asuna in a week, yet he leaves her unwatched with two pointless tentacle scientists as guards (probably just luckily caught her), with a perfectly accessible cube with no password that could log her out. Don't give me that bullshit that it would have rejected her, there were no filters and the one scientist logged out immediately after. If it's a year or something, it could be very tedious, but he controls the game. Put about 100 armed guards in between her and that cube, then keep changing the password for the terminal every day for one week. ONE WEEK.

And you know what? I think I WILL rant about the tentacle scene. Am I watching a hentai series or something? Last time I checked, this was Sword Art Online. I had a bad feeling the second I saw the whatevers, but I actually didn't think they'd stoop this low. This wasn't implied sexuality, it WAS sexual. There was NO point to it at all either, or I wouldn't be here.

Finally, if someone can explain this to me: Lyfa just finished explained that flying up the tree was impossible since they patched it. So, why is Kirito trying it the following scene?

-end rant-