Why is Gundam Seed Destiny so controversial?

[[DarkazurESky]]

Given their expertise, they were lots better than the original druggie trio that they didn't need much maintenance but they didn't do much against the Coordinators. Hell, the original druggie trio actually made Athrun and Kira helpless...

You mean Original Trio? Original Trio may have not killed as much as Extendeds have, but they did pushed Athrun and Kira to their limits. You said Extendeds are better but Druggies are better. The reason is that if Extendeds went head-to-head with Kira and Athrun they probally have died quickly since Auel got killed by low leveled Shinn.

They had character, for all the many episodes they were in (yes, they were sadly degenerated to filler characters), much more than the original cast. Stellar wasn't just a 5 year old trapped in a girl's body; it was clear that she was as normal as you and I are, just sucks that she only gets to speak third person sentences. She has hopes, she has dreams, and she has emotions. She did everything for her Neo sama, and she did this all without faltering in her belief that Neo was everything for her. She believed that Shinn would protect her. She knew that Auel and Sting were there for her. Sting acted like a big brother to the both of them. Auel was overly protective of Stellar, and he could be a bit annoying at times, but that was part of his charms. Who could say that they weren't developed?

This is nice argument. I learned a new thing. You are right. They did developed more as characters because Shani, Clotho, and Orga just fought when they are coerced. They did develop though, they started care about each other as SEED neared ending. Extendeds already had team work but all died when the story started to increase its intensity. What an easy target they were.

Shinn was in many ways affected by Stellar because Stellar was someone who was part of a war which he wanted to stop in his own way, and so therefore in conclusion Stellar was everyone he wanted to protect from the war. So it's not "it makes no sense why he was affected so much by Stellar".

I did not said that. I meant, even thought I know why shinn grieved so much after Steller's death, the producers did not made good progress to reach such intensity of emotion.

Um...he WAS? He did all those things on his own, he didn't need Dullindal to pixie dust him to achieving that path he took.

Shinn did decide and did all of those by himself, but he was not as if he thought "I am not sure about this" and came back and said "Now I am sure" only with his reasoning but only what Rey and Dullindal said.

Even given more episodes, if Fukuda wants to end Shinn's character, he would still end it, or if he wanted to give more reason to Lacus' otherworldy GODDESS character, then so be it...but that would mean 5+ episodes more of rehashed action scenes, nonsensical nonsense, and why all good in the world is always able to defeat evil in the name of teh pink. It's no big wonder, really.

What I am saying is that since 5 episodes were recaps they needed more epis to have action packed battle scenes. Even in the Final Phase Plus: The Chosen Path, Rey and Shinn rather lost battle quickly without much of action. Believe me, I re-watched SEED epi. 1~35 this week. So I know what is an action packed battle scenes are.

[Last_Hope]

Originally Posted by '[DarkazurESky

Believe me, I re-watched SEED epi. 1~35 this week. So I know what is an action packed battle scenes are.

I also rewatched SEED, finished it this week. And when I had seen the last episode I felt this strong urge to rewatch SEED so now I am.


I don´t think Destiny lacks action. It´s that more the action lacks variety and creativity. The battles were too stiff and too easy to predict. I think the same arguments is plausible with everything that concerns Destiny. Destiny had a good base to stand on. The thought for the plot was interesting, and caused a lot of discussion, the new characters were far from boring (I love the old cast) and there were some interesting mecha designs (especially Girty Lue). So there certainly was plenty of chances for Destiny to be a really good show.

I think Destiny held a high level until Orb+EAF, Archangel and Minerva clashed. After that the show got stiff in my opinion. It didn´t suck but if it weren´t for the old cast I wouldn´t keep Destiny.

[[DarkazurESky]]

To be honest, GSD was not that bad. But these are some reasons why GSD failed.
1. SEED was so good we, the people, expected more from GSD. Higher expectation means higher the disappointment.
2. Intro of new character to lead sequel is not that good idea. We saw producers changed main from Shinn to Kira.
3. Lack of character development. Too many characters I guess.
4. Cameos of Yzak and Dearka. They were sub mains in SEED and they came out like 30 seconds!
5. To many recaps to ridicule us. SEED had 4 recaps. GSD had 5, 3 of which were squished into last ten episodes. Now as every one knows recap is to buy a time. I mean if they don't have time hire more animators or just air it as a special episodes to explain some events and characters, which requires one VA and some editors, which won't waste any episodes. Why can't they do that? To make a episodes, it cost at least $20,000. Special will add only so much cost.

Spoiler:

Anime costs too. let's assume, I looked at credits in DVD when all five epis are over, Sunrise roughly hired 12 key drawers, at least 20 inbeteewn drawers ( inbetween drawers out number key drawers in great numbers ), mech drawers, director, scenarios writer, etc. So there is at least 150 staffs. Let's say they get paid per episodes. They will get paid like $ 300. So 150 times 300 equals $45,000 ( man hour is expensive ) And 50 times 45,000 equals $2,250,000. Since exact numbers are unknown I can't tell you exactly. But numbers will suprise ya.

If all my 5 points are eliminated or improved GSD would have been 9 out of 10.

Spoiler:

If I am rich, I would buy out C.E. production team and fund them with almost all of my money to remake SEED and GSD in Avent Children Style of 60 epis each series. And contract Bandai to co-produce SEED III, one in Avent Children Style and Original Anime. This would be the bomb.

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by [DarkazurESky]

To be honest, GSD was not that bad. But these are some reasons why GSD failed.
1. SEED was so good we, the people, expected more from GSD. Higher expectation means higher the disappointment.
2. Intro of new character to lead sequel is not that good idea. We saw producers changed main from Shinn to Kira.
3. Lack of character development. Too many characters I guess.
4. Cameos of Yzak and Dearka. They were sub mains in SEED and they came out like 30 seconds!
5. To many recaps to ridicule us. SEED had 4 recaps. GSD had 5, 3 of which were squished into last ten episodes. Now as every one knows recap is to buy a time. I mean if they don't have time hire more animators or just air it as a special episodes to explain some events and characters, which requires one VA and some editors, which won't waste any episodes. Why can't they do that? To make a episodes, it cost at least $20,000. Special will add only so much cost.

Spoiler:

Anime costs too. let's assume, I looked at credits in DVD when all five epis are over, Sunrise roughly hired 12 key drawers, at least 20 inbeteewn drawers ( inbetween drawers out number key drawers in great numbers ), mech drawers, director, scenarios writer, etc. So there is at least 150 staffs. Let's say they get paid per episodes. They will get paid like $ 300. So 150 times 300 equals $45,000 ( man hour is expensive ) And 50 times 45,000 equals $2,250,000. Since exact numbers are unknown I can't tell you exactly. But numbers will suprise ya.

If all my 5 points are eliminated or improved GSD would have been 9 out of 10.

Spoiler:

If I am rich, I would buy out C.E. production team and fund them with almost all of my money to remake SEED and GSD in Avent Children Style of 60 epis each series. And contract Bandai to co-produce SEED III, one in Avent Children Style and Original Anime. This would be the bomb.

1. while I personally didnt find GS to be anything spectacular it did entertain me and yea its certainly one of the pitfalls of sequals. But GSD's downfall had little to do with high expectations, rather the disjointed plot, lack of direction and character development dragged it down -.-

2. UC did it well enough, Amuro Ray wasent in every UC series was he? and I believe, before the forum crack, ratings were posted to prove that eps involving Kira werent more popular with the viewers. Not to mention that GSD's ratings were very high at the begining BEFORE Kira came back.

3. not to mention that what little character development on the "main character" Shinn was convineintly thrown out the window. Also lack of any meaningful interaction between the majority of the caste failed to connect me to any of them. And some of the character development/ interaction that did take place were poorly handled.

4. It was nice seeing Yzak and Dearka but I felt they were handled well, they werent central to the plot so the writers let us know they are still kicking. Anymore and they would have taken even more focus away from the new caste.

5. definatly way too many recaps -.- Before the forum hack I believe there were several threads with info saying that morosawa submits the scripts usually late and past the deadline, leaving the animators not much time. Infact Fukuda himself said in an interview that he was surprised that they made the deadline on some of the eps. Not to mention that no recent gundam anime is EVER underfunded so the problem definatly wasent the money.

I honestly hope that the rumours of GS3 are just a hoax -.- but then again if they came out with it i'd still watch it just because its gundam

[Crusader]

GSD sucked cause EA wasnt portrayed as competent villains., nor were they given enough good screen time. nah there isn't any point in sayign what has already been reiterated for the umpteenth time.

[[DarkazurESky]]

I am saying high expectation is part of the problem.

I honestly hope that the rumours of GS3 are just a hoax -.- but then again if they came out with it i'd still watch it just because its gundam

You put out better argument than me but your very hypocratic. I watch SEED and GSD because it is good not because it is a Gundam. You want SEED III to be hoax but you will watch it when it come out?! Because of ppl like you any series of anime are often look bad. You watched all the way and u blab you will never watch it cuz it is bad; however, you will see GS_ (insert a name) and enjoy it and blab again. I watched it because it was good not cuz it is gundam. I agree they could have made it better and I point out why I think it failed. Just say it this way "becuz gsd was bad for me I don't want to watch SEED III when it comes out FOR THE MOMENT! but i will see it to see if seed iii improved from gsd and if it is good I will watch it.

[demon_god04]

Well it may be hypocritical but to me the Gundam Franchise has a certain amount of sentimental attachment. I watched it as a kid with my Dad as a kid before the split up and I moved to Canada with my mom 14 years ago. I have also been following gundam ever since, so I will continue to watch any new series that comes out. Still it doesnt stop me from being disappointed in an obviously mediocure series, which I will admit I would have stopped watching had it not been gundam and had I not hoped it would get better.

You want SEED III to be hoax but you will watch it when it come out?! Because of ppl like you any series of anime are often look bad. You watched all the way and u blab you will never watch it cuz it is bad; however, you will see GS_ (insert a name) and enjoy it and blab again.

I can honestly say that out of all the anime I have watched (which is ALOT) there are not many that I disliked. And yes I watched all of GSD, but I never blabbed about anything, I agree with some of your points and just added in what my opinion was on why GSD tanked. Acually most of the later eps of GSD I sorta just skimmed the eps and I havent touched GSD since the Final plus came out.

The MAIN reason I dont want a GS3 is because GSD Butchered the characters I liked in GS im afraid what they will do in another installment. But because it is Gundam I will always give the series another chance before forming an opinion. If it was anyother series I most likely wouldnt care enough to even make a post in a forum to why it sucked and simply stopped watching if I didnt enjoy it. I just hold this franchise in a higher regard and like any fan, will be incredibly disappointed when it turns into what GSD was.

[Eidolon Sniper]

Originally Posted by [DarkazurESky]

You mean Original Trio? Original Trio may have not killed as much as Extendeds have, but they did pushed Athrun and Kira to their limits. You said Extendeds are better but Druggies are better. The reason is that if Extendeds went head-to-head with Kira and Athrun they probally have died quickly since Auel got killed by low leveled Shinn.

Um, I DID say that they were better than the original druggie trio because they didn't need much maintenance, but sadly can't hold up a candle to them in terms of making and Ultimate Coordinator become absolutely helpless in spite of his rainbow spam...

This is nice argument. I learned a new thing. You are right. They did developed more as characters because Shani, Clotho, and Orga just fought when they are coerced. They did develop though, they started care about each other as SEED neared ending. Extendeds already had team work but all died when the story started to increase its intensity. What an easy target they were.

Well, all the wonders of Fukuda's magic wand...

I did not said that. I meant, even thought I know why shinn grieved so much after Steller's death, the producers did not made good progress to reach such intensity of emotion.

It was handled wonderfully. I had no gripes how Shinn was portrayed as being that attached to Stellar, because it was handled wonderfully (too much subtlety, but you KNOW it was there, alright). It didn't just suddenly appear out of nowhere (as with a certain GOD and GODDESS pair... ). Heck, Stellar's relationship with Shinn was handled more realistically than he and Lunamaria's were.

Shinn did decide and did all of those by himself, but he was not as if he thought "I am not sure about this" and came back and said "Now I am sure" only with his reasoning but only what Rey and Dullindal said.

Yes, he was. He only believed Rey and Dullindal after much coaxing on their part.

What I am saying is that since 5 episodes were recaps they needed more epis to have action packed battle scenes. Even in the Final Phase Plus: The Chosen Path, Rey and Shinn rather lost battle quickly without much of action. Believe me, I re-watched SEED epi. 1~35 this week. So I know what is an action packed battle scenes are.

As long as these battles have meaning and could actually give more boost to the story, then why the hell not? But the battles were so one sided I wanted to cry. And what good action was there, was left for the other old cast fans to pick over and over, why the new cast members are just nobodies and have no right to fair play just because they happen to be on the other side of the fence...

[[DarkazurESky]]

Well demon god.. u sound like a nice person wannabe friends?
SEED III will be come since Sunrise green lighted and final phase plus hinted it.So let's just wait. Some says SEED III team will take originality again like SEED. So it will be as good as SEED.
BEST Regard

Don't expect too much folks as I said hight expectation equals disappointment.

Heck, Stellar's relationship with Shinn was handled more realistically than he and Lunamaria's were.

I agree but both choices are awful. They are rotten apples. I wanted a new apple.

[demon_god04]

Thanks And I already had low expectations for Final Plus and was STILL disappointed.... Maybe if I go into GS3 thinking it will be the worst anime ever it will blow me away I just hope morosawa will not be writing the script and everything will be fine and dandy.

[Crusader]

morosawa is a no no for anythign gundam, heck she's a no no for anything that involves writing.

[Sety]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

2. UC did it well enough, Amuro Ray wasent in every UC series was he? and I believe, before the forum crack, ratings were posted to prove that eps involving Kira werent more popular with the viewers. Not to mention that GSD's ratings were very high at the begining BEFORE Kira came back.

For the record, the highest rated episodes were the Meteor Break episodes and the Rau le Creseut cameo recap episode with Dullindal's thoughts. All episodes after that one bombed GX style and did officially become the worst series ever with its ratings and viewings for that primetime timeslot. As for the lowest rated episodes they were the episodes with Shinn's random adventures in the middle east and the whole Stellar arc and Freedom vs Impulse arc.

[Crusader]

i think the only reason the dullandil recap ep featruing rau was so highly rated, is becuase it was somewhat interesting, rather it gave more insight into gilbert and maybe a little of rau as well.

[lemondude]

wat didn't cause gsd to fall???

[AnimePlus]

You know what, I love Gundam Seed and I loved Gundam Seed: Destiny. Was it a good anime? If I were to rate it (objectively) I'd give it like a 4/10. Why? Oh don't even get me started. I can't respect an anime that reuses fight scenes, I mean you can only see the same mobile suits being exploded so many times (alternating the background does NOT help). But you know what, I still LOVED GSD. I have no idea why because as a lot of people have been saying the characters just aren't 'there.' Their development and how they interact in the plot is totally unoriginable and aims to appease the fans (Kira being the most popular things like that) than anything. Furthermore, the plot is just re-hashed. I mean it is so easy to predict that

Spoiler:

the Earth is the target at the end of both of the seasons

But I still loved it.

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by Crusader

i think the only reason the dullandil recap ep featruing rau was so highly rated, is becuase it was somewhat interesting, rather it gave more insight into gilbert and maybe a little of rau as well.

I think the reason the Dullandil recap and the Shinn recap of GS( Im not 100% sure but I think that the Shinn recap ep also had a rating spike or atleast was higher then the ratings of the recent eps around there) was that the writer does a very poor job portraying the character's motivations and thoughts though character interaction. So much so that they need to use those eps to just force feed it to us, atleast thats my take on it

[Last_Hope]

Originally Posted by Sety

For the record, the highest rated episodes were the Meteor Break episodes and the Rau le Creseut cameo recap episode with Dullindal's thoughts. All episodes after that one bombed GX style and did officially become the worst series ever with its ratings and viewings for that primetime timeslot. As for the lowest rated episodes they were the episodes with Shinn's random adventures in the middle east and the whole Stellar arc and Freedom vs Impulse arc.

No, I think it barely managed to get away from the "last place" actually... And comparing to other Gundam shows it´s in the middle.

Didn´t Athrun´s comeback episode get a high rating too?

[Sety]

Originally Posted by Last_Hope

No, I think it barely managed to get away from the "last place" actually... And comparing to other Gundam shows it´s in the middle.

Didn´t Athrun´s comeback episode get a high rating too?

Actually make that second worst.......the only other show which did worse was abit less than a decade ago. Still not exactly impressive.

And yes I actually believe compared with other Gundam shows it does get a very averagish rating.

And if you mean the Athrun returning in I-Justice? It did get a better rating, which could be considered good since the episodes at that point were getting god awful ratings, but it was nowhere near as good compared to the ratings for the first 8 episodes and the Dullindal recap episode. It was just a high rating for that point but only average overall.

[Last_Hope]

Originally Posted by Sety

And if you mean the Athrun returning in I-Justice? It did get a better rating, which could be considered good since the episodes at that point were getting god awful ratings, but it was nowhere near as good compared to the ratings for the first 8 episodes and the Dullindal recap episode. It was just a high rating for that point but only average overall.

I thought Athrun returning in I-Justice got into the Top.10 ratings-list?

(Maybe I´m just remembering it wrong but I´m sure Destiny made it into the Top10-list atleast once.)

[Uh_huh]

I wouldn't say that GSD sucked so much that it failed ... but it was somewhat disappointing.

I don't think I had very high expectations for it since it's a Gundam series so you already have some idea of what's it going to be about. But the end was just so rushed IMO (not to mention sucky, even though it's the cliche ending that we all expected).

And as many people already mentioned, the character development was lacking, but you can't expect too much with all the characters they were threwing in there (there was that orange-haired guy who got killed off in a few episodes, like what was up with that?). With that being said though, I have to congratulate the directors for making Shinn, like come on, who doesn't hate that emo?