Macross Frontier Character Discussion - Sheryl Nome

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Westlo

Nah I think it's a case of the character designers being too lazy to draw more outfits for her, the Saito from ZNT disease!

Oh please, its a lot better than Heero from Gundam W.

And I need not say anything about that.

- Tak

[ickem]

I've been seeing lots of speculation about Sheryl being an experiment of some kind i.e. a clone. But I wonder if the reason that she is called a failure is because the drugs that Grace had been slipping her did not produce the desired effect. They may have been trying to duplicate the q1 through the use of the pills, but it just didn't work the way they wished. It is understandable that they would want a singer as a tool since the Vajra seem to communicate via the the waves that Brera detected when Ranka was singing. It seems more likely that they found a singer that was already showing promise to test on. It also seems kind of unlikely that they could produce someone as overwhelmingly popular as Sheryl became even with their vast manipulative powers taken into consideration. Plus having false memories would not add anything to her character, only detract from it. Sheryl has been shown to be a person who has had to struggle to get to the top under her own power. Her memories of that struggle and loneliness are what make her the person she is, but if these memories are shown to be fake, it would mean that she has no real identity. She becomes an extremely shallow character instead of the rich character that we have come to know. I don't think there are enough episodes left to convincingly build her character back up and to answer many of the questions about the plot that are still left to us.

I don't know, I guess I just really don't like the idea clones as a heavy handed plot device.

[hai_san]

Well we dont know yet if Sheryl is a clone or something else but clear is that Sheryl was produced/breed from Grace organisation, since her earing are from her mother.

[Terra]

I wouldn't be surprised if this "failed project" turns out to be their biggest obstacle once she gets free of Grace's control.

[Darial]

Originally Posted by ickem

I don't know, I guess I just really don't like the idea clones as a heavy handed plot device.

Ickem,

After watching episode 15 and the reference to Sheryl as "Fairy-9" I was thinking about this issue in the context of the mid-season slam-down on Sheryl and the story's underlying theme on choosing your own destiny - i.e. Alto's choice to be a pliot, Ranka's choice to seek stardom, etc.

What has always been the most important thing to Sheryl is the fact that she IS Sheryl. And the fact that She worked hard, struggled, and climbed her way to the top is something that she takes pride in. That's why Sheryl often says, "I am Sheryl." To her, her identity as Sheryl Nome, the Galactic Fairy, is the prism from where she views and deals with the outside world. This identity gives her an enormous amount of self-confidence, but also makes her a very static character that really hasn't changed too much since the beginning of the series.

Looking at the three main, Ranka definitely had the most character development so far, going from the shy, immature girl to the pop idol who's willing to jump into a battlefield to rescue the guy she's interested in. She also overcame her insecurities to do a public song duel in a hospital against the singer she formerly (and still) idolizes to defend her hold on the same love interest. The Ranka of episode 15 (blushing and moe behaviors aside), is not the Ranka of episode 1, and my personal preferences aside, it is clear that Ranka's character has undergone a lot of development and became stronger in the process.

As for Alto, he has not been developed as much as Ranka. However, he did change somewhat from the initial flight nut to the combat veteran flight nut he is today. Additionally, since he's designed as a male tsundere, too much emotional development and character depth is not to be expected. So all in all, he's about where he should be.

On the other hand, Sheryl has always looked at the world through the lens of "Sheryl Nome, self-made Galactic Fairy." While this sorta fits the choosing your own destiny theme of the show, the fact that Sheryl chose her own destiny long before this show started destroys any possibly of character growth. After all, if you are already exactly where you want to be in life, why do you need to change at all? And if Sheryl doesn't change and grow, she probably wouldn't be interesting as a static character.

Hence it's essential for the writers of the show to destroy this obstacle to growth and make the paradigm shift. By revealing Sheryl as a clone (ha, not only are you a clone, you're only 18 months old and there were 8 other Sheryls before you), this effectively shatters her anchor to life and the prism through which she views the world. While it's a bit cliche, the amount of angst Sheryl undergoes will generate a tremendous amount of sympathy from fans (who doesn't want to watch Sheryl cry for once?), and probably helping hands from both Alto and Ranka, thus further reinforcing their relationships.

Additionally, this will give Sheryl the real freedom to make the choice on her own future, since by finally knowing the truth about her past, she will now be equipped with the information to do what her heart truly desires. This journey to climb out of being a discarded tool of Galaxy to becoming a new Sheryl could be epic to watch, and if Alto helps Sheryl with the same amount of zeal he exhibited in his Ranka rescue attempt, Ranka shippers are probably going to have a fit.

Finally, if the staff can develop Ranka in the span of episode 10 - 13 (where 70-80% of her current developments came from), I'm confident they can do the same with Sheryl. So don't be too concerned if Sheryl turns out to be a clone. If it happens, I think it would be the beginning of her inevitable counter-attack and leveling-up.

[Swampstorm]

Well, we need to take a look at why people tend to consider the scenario to be a negative one, in the first place:

- Copies are never as good as the originals.
- Failure is not as good as success.
- Artificial things are not as good as natural things.

These principles might not be true in reality, but words often have implicit values tacked on to them. With a bit of rephrasing, though...

- A clone is just a genetic copy, and we're all genetic copies to varying degrees. Your experiences are what shape your thoughts and ideas.
- Failing to be someone else's pawn is better than successfully becoming someone else's pawn.
- Something artificial functions by design. So it's only artificial insofar as it lives up to that design.

So even if the writers do decide to make her into a clone, there really is only one Sheryl Nome. What's more, I suspect that Grace is going to end up learning that the hard way.

***

There seem to be some weird ideas floating around with regards to character development. I probably should have challenged this when it first came up.

Character development is not about showing a character to be stronger than they were at an earlier point in time. It's about depicting the process by which a character changes their ideas and viewpoint over time (note that "becoming stronger" implies a value judgement on our part - a tragic hero could take a turn for the "worse", but is that not still character development?)

The process is vital. The character needs to be gradually developed over the course of the entire story. If it's too rapid, then you essentially transition from a character who was static to a character who is still static, but stronger. It gets even worse if you give the character in question some sort of latent superpower or special talent, because the development of the character's abilities often tends to overshadow the development of character's ideas itself.

Obstacles are not required for character development, either. The purpose of a crisis (or building up for a power move, if you prefer) is to build dramatic tension, which is a plot issue, not a character one. It's still important, but it should be treated as distinct from discussions on character development.

You do need some sort of catalyst for change to occur, though. In order to do change, the character needs to be exposed to a novel situation. It might be a crisis, or it might not be. All that matters is that the character starts to change their way of thinking.

For most of the series, Sheryl has been constantly uprooted. Everything that she sees is a new experience for her, and it greatly influences the way in which she sees things. This is part of the reason why her character is so well developed.

When Sheryl started the series, her life revolved around her career. But through her interactions with Alto, she discovered balance, and learned to broaden her interests. She discovered what it means to have friends and go to school.

She discovered a love for flying. At first, she ties that interest back to her career, like any good workaholic. But over time, her drive to succeed pushes her to focus, and by episode eleven we see that her priorities have even shifted to the point where it becomes more important than taking care of health (which is the number one priority for someone in her profession).

Sheryl discovered love. Her feelings for Alto started out as playful, but we watch those feelings slowly evolve into love as she gradually comes to understand him. The attraction isn't formed instantaniously and left static; it evolves constantly over time. Again, the focus isn't on the magnitude of her reactions, but rather on their substance.

"Show, don't tell."
It's not enough for a character to simply change; we need to see the process of that change. It's the ideas, thoughts, and feelings of the character that make them who they are, not their accomplishments. That's the reason why Sheryl makes such a strong impact.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Darial

Hence it's essential for the writers of the show to destroy this obstacle to growth and make the paradigm shift. By revealing Sheryl as a clone (ha, not only are you a clone, you're only 18 months old and there were 8 other Sheryls before you), this effectively shatters her anchor to life and the prism through which she views the world. While it's a bit cliche, the amount of angst Sheryl undergoes will generate a tremendous amount of sympathy from fans (who doesn't want to watch Sheryl cry for once?), and probably helping hands from both Alto and Ranka, thus further reinforcing their relationships.

Well, that she is only 18 months old is purely your speculation at this point, there is no evidence at all to support it.

[MooMooFarm]

This chick is infinitely more interesting than Ranka, simply because the way macross is drawn doesn't make Ranka moe enough T_T

Cmon now, it can't be just me who goes . when you see Ranka trying to fight with Sheryl over Alto (who isn't exactly uber cool himself); about the only thing Ranka has is the floaty hair with her mood. Even anime-ized Hikari of Special A is way more moe than Ranka =(

Klan fits more for cute, while Ranka is in a bad position between cute but not pet/child cute and yet not sexy enough to be in any position. It's like, some forbidden territory for black van drivers o.O

YES THIS IS A TERRIBLE POST, BUT EVEN APPEAL HAS STANDARDS <.< though fact is, Macross as a whole isn't drawn that attractive, but rather more "realistic" I guess.

[squaresphere]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Well, that she is only 18 months old is purely your speculation at this point, there is no evidence at all to support it.

The GG subs states the 18 months was the "Grace" research time (heh grace period ) to find the proper fleet to execute their vajra experiment and probably doesn't mean Sheryl is only 18 months old. More likely during this time Sheryl was getting setup as THE pop idol in the macross galaxy.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by squaresphere

The GG subs states the 18 months was the "Grace" research time (heh grace period ) to find the proper fleet to execute their vajra experiment and probably doesn't mean Sheryl is only 18 months old. More likely during this time Sheryl was getting setup as THE pop idol in the macross galaxy.

I´d say she was popular before, becoming the galaxies number one singer doesn´t happen from one day to the other... or at least not anymore in the relatively stable environment which we have in 2059,

[Darial]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Well, that she is only 18 months old is purely your speculation at this point, there is no evidence at all to support it.

Of course it's speculation. 18 month is the length of Sheryl's galactic concert tour length, and for all we know Sheryl could be the normal pop star she always claimed to be and she just happened to hook up with the wrong manager.

Then again, "Sheryl Nome" could be a propaganda/spying tool created by the conspirators from Galaxy, and they created a pop idol to front it. The current Sheryl (Fairy-9) could be number 9 in a series of Sheryl clones maintained by the Galaxy conspiracy (the previous clones are terminated when they are no longer controllable/useful).

Originally Posted by magnuskn

I´d say she was popular before, becoming the galaxies number one singer doesn´t happen from one day to the other... or at least not anymore in the relatively stable environment which we have in 2059,

Yup. It took several years at least (the OST liner notes talking about Sheryl songs being on the top of the chart as early as 2057, so she must have started even before that). However, if Sheryl is a propaganda/spying tool project created by a powerful conspiracy, it's not hard for them to maintain continuity with a series of clones over the years.

At this point, with the way the conspiracy is unfolding and the show writers playing hide the plot/surprise the fans, anything is possible. So it's fun to speculate while waiting for the next episode to come out.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Darial

Of course it's speculation. 18 month is the length of Sheryl's galactic concert tour length, and for all we know Sheryl could be the normal pop star she always claimed to be and she just happened to hook up with the wrong manager.

Then again, "Sheryl Nome" could be a propaganda/spying tool created by the conspirators from Galaxy, and they created a pop idol to front it. The current Sheryl (Fairy-9) could be number 9 in a series of Sheryl clones maintained by the Galaxy conspiracy (the previous clones are terminated when they are no longer useful).

At this point, with the way the conspiracy is unfolding and the show writers playing hide the plot/surprise the fans, anything is possible. So it's fun to speculate while waiting for the next episode to come out.

I´d rather think that the conspirators did create her from genetic samples of Ranshe Nome and then she was simply raised in an orphanage and given the chance to be a successful singer.

I dislike the idea of her being one of a series of pop star clones, because that should raise several questions, like did nobody ever research her background? Especially as a star, that should be something which should have happened.

For the hypothesis that she will die soon because she wasn´t planned to be alive long-term, I´d like to point out that the cause of her quick recovery on Gallia IV was because she chucked the witchcraft 639 pill... it is much more likely she is perfectly fine but being poisoned by Grace.

And now, that she isn´t useful anymore, she is being left behind to fend for her own. You can see in the gg fansub that Grace still admires her strength for staying alive after ceasing to be useful to the conspiracy and being left to die.

As for Grace chucking the sample of her blood, I am guessing it is to destroy evidence of her meddling with Sheryls health. As the progress of the conspiracies project is up to 78%, it shouldn´t be too long anymore before they make their move, and in their eyes at least, by then any discovery of wrong-doing in regards to Sheryls health won´t be relevant anymore.

[Darial]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

I´d rather think that the conspirators did create her from genetic samples of Ranshe Nome and then she was simply raised in an orphanage and given the chance to be a successful singer.

It's a possible theory, but takes 17 years to get a "maybe" result. So it's more likely she's either an orphan picked up by Grace (or another member of the conspiracy) after showing some real talents, or a clone created to fulfill the role of being Galactic Fairy.

Originally Posted by magnuskn

I dislike the idea of her being one of a series of pop star clones, because that should raise several questions, like did nobody ever research her background? Especially as a star, that should be something which should have happened.

If you are sponsored by a vast and powerful conspiracy, having a bullet-proof cover is a no-brainer. I'm sure if Sheryl is really a series of clones, there would be a bullet-proof background, and if anyone finds out otherwise, the conspiracy probably has some goons with easy access to airlocks.

The bottom line is, whatever backstory the writers cook up for Sheryl, it is probably going to be the springboard to make her a stronger and richer character. None of us have any real control over where the show is going, so I'm just going to sit back, speculate, and enjoy watching Sheryl's growth and development in the last 10 episodes of the series.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Darial

It's a possible theory, but takes 17 years to get a "maybe" result. So it's more likely she's either an orphan picked up by Grace (or another member of the conspiracy) after showing some real talents, or a clone created to fulfill the role of being Galactic Fairy.

They definitely seem to be people who plan long-term... you don´t mention a 500.000 years timeline if you think only of short-term plans. And as they are AI beings, they don´t need to get impatient. Nobody of them is going to die from old age.[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Darial

If you are sponsored by a vast and powerful conspiracy, having a bullet-proof cover is a no-brainer. I'm sure if Sheryl is really a series of clones, there would be a bullet-proof background, and if anyone finds out otherwise, the conspiracy probably has some goons with easy access to airlocks.

It´s of course quite possible, but still, if Sheryl suddenly would have appeared only two years ago, I think *someone* should have gotten suspicious. Of course, that someone well may really have then gone through an airlock.

Originally Posted by Darial

The bottom line is, whatever backstory the writers cook up for Sheryl, it is probably going to be the springboard to make her a stronger and richer character. None of us have any real control over where the show is going, so I'm just going to sit back, speculate, and enjoy watching Sheryl's growth and development in the last 10 episodes of the series.

On that, I totally concur. Sheryl ganbatte!

[Darial]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

On that, I totally concur. Sheryl ganbatte!

Sheryl ganbatte.

[Tak]

Say it like you mean it!

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ガンバレ、 シェリル !!

絶対、勝ちだ!!!

シェリル最高!!!

~ Sheryl, Sheryl über alles, über alles in der Galaxie ~

- Tak

[stray]

...just so long as Frontier doesn't start turning from 'Grace in the Shell' to 'The Island'

ガンバレ、 シェリル !!

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by stray

...just so long as Frontier doesn't start turning from 'Grace in the Shell' to 'The Island'

ガンバレ、 シェリル !!

I agree.

However, I did enjoy "The Island" and have it on DVD.

[magnuskn]

ガンバレ、 シェリル !! , then.

[lone_wolf]

I'm surprised some fanboys didn't say...

シェリルさま、
君は、僕が今まで見た中で
最も美しい女性だ。

LOL, though I guess that might be going overboard

Anyhow, before a mod comes in and sees this, this IS relevant to this thread.


Now here's my cheer for Sheryl

シェリルさま、 ご幸運を祈ります!

...お大事に!

--Lone Wolf
一匹狼