New Typesetter WITH ?questions

[AxMaN1244]

Hey all i'm a new typesetter and i have some experience with using SSA and i was wondering if anyone would like to either give me a crash course on it or show me to a site where there is one. Um i have done timing in SSA and even got scrolling to work, but really want to know how to make animatinos on text, like boncing, steaching, enlarging, and that kind of stuff; do i need other software other then SSA is there something better or other commands to use. Anyways any and all help would be apreciated. Thank you all for helping out.

[Mr_Paper]

Your Textsub and SSA/ASS guide: http://members.shaw.ca/tragd/textsub..._morphinex.txt

[Sakaki-]

Originally Posted by AxMaN1244

Hey all i'm a new typesetter and i have some experience with using SSA and i was wondering if anyone would like to either give me a crash course on it or show me to a site where there is one. Um i have done timing in SSA and even got scrolling to work, but really want to know how to make animatinos on text, like boncing, steaching, enlarging, and that kind of stuff; do i need other software other then SSA is there something better or other commands to use. Anyways any and all help would be apreciated. Thank you all for helping out.

Use Notepad or Ultraedit, and use
"C:\Program Files\Gabest\VobSub\Docs\ass-specs.doc"
as reference when doing signs etc.

Best way to learn is to play around you wont learn how to be a good typesetter by reading any guides, it comes thru hard work and experience.

The more signs you do the better you get.

^_^

[Script Info]
; This is a Sub Station Alpha v4 script,
; For Sub Station Alpha info and downloads,
; go to http://www,eswat,demon,co,uk/
; or email kotus@eswat,demon,co,uk
Title: <untitled>
Original Script: <unknown>
ScriptType: v4,00
Collisions: Normal
PlayResY: 480
PlayResX: 640
PlayDepth: 0
Timer: 100,0000

[V4 Styles]
Format: Name, Fontname, Fontsize, PrimaryColour, SecondaryColour, TertiaryColour, BackColour, Bold, Italic, BorderStyle, Outline, Shadow, Alignment, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, AlphaLevel, Encoding
Style: Default,MS Gothic,65,16711680,16744448,0,13303807,-1,0,1,1,2,2,20,20,20,55,0
Style: Title,SF Intellivised,39,&Heaeaff,&Hea5aff,&H000040,&H000040,-1,0,1,1,1,2,20,20,20,0,0
Style: hiden,SF Intellivised,38,&Heaeaff,&Hea5aff,&H000040,&H000040,-1,0,1,1,1,2,20,20,20,235,0

[Events]
Format: Marked, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: Marked=0,0:00:00.00,0:00:10.00,Title,,0000,0000,0000,,{\pos(419,59)\bord2.5\fad(300,300)}{\an5\r\t(204,408,\frx360\fscy105\fscx105)}T{\r\t(408,602,\frx360\fscy105\fscx105)}y{\an5\r\t(602,806,\frx360\fscy105\fscx105)}p{\r\t(806,1010,\frx360\fscy105\fscx105)}e{\r\t(1010,1214,\frx360\fscy105\fscx105)}s{\r\t(1214,1418,\frx360\fscy105\fscx105)}e{\r\t(1418,1622,\frx360\fscy105\fscx105)}t{\\r\t(1622,1826,\frx360\fscy105\fscx105)}t{\r\t(1826,2030,\frx360\fscy105\fscx105)}i{r\t(2030,2234,\frx360\fscy105\fscx105)}n{\r\t(2234,2438,\frx360\fscy105\fscx105)}g
Dialogue: Marked=0,0:00:00.00,0:00:10.00,Title,,0000,0000,0000,,{\pos(419,90)\bord2.5\fad(300,300)}{\an5\r\t(250,500,\frz360\fscy110\fscx110)}S{\r\t(500,750,\frz360\fscy110\fscx110)}a{\an5\r\t(750,1000,\frz360\fscy110\fscx110)}k{\r\t(1000,1250,\frz360\fscy110\fscx110)}a{\r\t(1250,1500,\frz360\fscy110\fscx110)}k{\r\t(1500,1750,\frz360\fscy110\fscx110)}i{\r\t(1750,2000,\frz360\fscy110\fscx110)}-{\r\t(2000,2250,\frz360\fscy110\fscx110)}X
Dialogue: Marked=0,0:00:00.20,0:00:10.00,hiden,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an5\move(245,58,595,58,250,2250)}{\clip(320,0,520,480)}Sakaki-X
Dialogue: Marked=0,0:00:00.20,0:00:10.00,hiden,,0000,0000,0000,,{\an5\move(245,91,595,91,250,2250)}{\clip(339,0,500,104)}Typesetting

[Sylf]

Something I did about 9 months ago...
http://www.froth-bite.com/tutorial/tsguide.html

[GipFace]

All of those links are good, but there is one glaring problem. Why do these guides want you to use the outdated and buggy SSA style format when there's a proper ASS style format? It's made even more ridiculous when people shove in ASS commands inside SSA files too.

Template file for ASS and SSA4

ASS style format is superior -- you no longer have to start every single line with {\fscx80} or something when you can simply set it in the style line. Dialogue overlapping also works (SSA4's "Marked=0" was broken). Setting default \3C also works in ASS style format, too.

[LytHka]

I've been telling people to start using ASS for quite some time now. The best thing about it is the resolution system. You can set y and x of your video and have a better chance of hitting the spot you want for your titles faster. Also, this opens tons of new options for karaoke, like making \pos for positioning every sylabble and having the option of doing neat stuff once you're there.

The biggest turn-off I think is that many users try to use Medusa subtitling station which is "a bit" buggy and for some people it doesn't even work. : / Though I still use the ole trusty wordpad (Medusa I use only for SSA -> ASS conversion.)

[Sylf]

Actually, you can change the screen resolution in SSA as well. Not in Sub Station Alpha, but just with notepad.

I believe people are so used to using Sub Station Alpha, which only supports SSA, and not ASS. And people don't take time to convert the script. Personally, I've even written a PHP script to convert SSA to ASS...

[sangofe]

Originally Posted by Sylf

Actually, you can change the screen resolution in SSA as well. Not in Sub Station Alpha, but just with notepad.

I believe people are so used to using Sub Station Alpha, which only supports SSA, and not ASS. And people don't take time to convert the script. Personally, I've even written a PHP script to convert SSA to ASS...

^_^
Can you email me it to sangofe@gmail.com ?

[Kasshin]

Well, op/ed scripts in ASS format would have to be shifted with Medusa or Subresync, both of which I am not familiar with (and I'm sure most older subbers are the same). With my coding style, my scripts are SSA (the program) friendly, so I assume it'd be Medusa friendly too, and it achieves the same results as a script in .ass so I don't really have a problem. Also, leaving the script in .ssa format allows me to use SSA for easy access to looking up timings of a script, even though I only make changes in notepad and only use SSA as reference.

[Sylf]

The last time I used SubResync on ASS, it converted the script back to SSA. I was not happy with that result... (once again, I resulted in writing my own with PHP)

[Darth_E_]

Originally Posted by LytHka

The biggest turn-off I think is that many users try to use Medusa subtitling station which is "a bit" buggy and for some people it doesn't even work. : / Though I still use the ole trusty wordpad (Medusa I use only for SSA -> ASS conversion.)

Medusa is alright, but I don't like it's timing interface, its annoying and uncomfortable IMO, SSA's timing intereface is much more user friendly..

Yours,
-Elly

[LytHka]

Originally Posted by Elly

Medusa is alright, but I don't like it's timing interface, its annoying and uncomfortable IMO, SSA's timing intereface is much more user friendly..

Yours,
-Elly

Agreed. Though if you are a beginner karaoke'r, I'd recommend Medusa over SSA.
For normal line timings: SSA is what sane people use.

[DarkPaladin56]

~_~
i just use good ole notepad/wordpad for all my work (and some scripts cuz i;m too damn lazy )

[crumja]

Originally Posted by Kasshin

Well, op/ed scripts in ASS format would have to be shifted with Medusa or Subresync

Not so. Kiri, I'll send you my quickshift program.

And Dark, whose script might you be referring to?

[Sakaki-]

Originally Posted by GipFace

All of those links are good, but there is one glaring problem. Why do these guides want you to use the outdated and buggy SSA style format when there's a proper ASS style format? It's made even more ridiculous when people shove in ASS commands inside SSA files too.

Template file for ASS and SSA4

ASS style format is superior -- you no longer have to start every single line with {\fscx80} or something when you can simply set it in the style line. Dialogue overlapping also works (SSA4's "Marked=0" was broken). Setting default \3C also works in ASS style format, too.

Did you read the question properly he wanted to know about ssa and not ass.
And the ssa style format is not buggy go read a dictionary on what a bug is.
(Theres nothing wrong with the format, maybe the stuff used to render the ssa files.)

I think people who askes for help dosent need help from some smart aleck, who is going to disrespect the other people trying to help out by steping on their way of doing things.

Now for the point why i came here again.
If you need help with typesetting or how to get started you can find me @ irc.rizon.net i will gladly help if i have time.



Take Care
Sakaki-

[GipFace]

Did you read the question properly he wanted to know about ssa and not ass.

Then please stop using ASS commands such as \pos, \an, and \frx. They were never part of the original SSA4 specification. Please read ass-specs.doc again and do note every single command that is colored in red -- those are the ASS commands. They can be forced into SSA4 files but that's because TextSub is very lenient on trivial errors (you may not close the last parentheses in a command and the plugin will still accept it). If he's learning from scratch, he might as well do things the proper way.

And the ssa style format is not buggy go read a dictionary on what a bug is. (nothing wrong with the format, maybe the stuff used to render the ssa files.)

bug (dictionary.com)
<programming> An unwanted and unintended property of a program or piece of hardware, especially one that causes it to malfunction.

Did SSA4 intend to have \3C malfunction in the style sheet? Did SSA4 intend to have layers malfunction? No? Then they're bugs.

I think people who askes for help dosent need help from some smart aleck, who is going to disrespect the other people trying to help out by steping on their way of doing things.

Actually, I provided a link to the ASS templates instead of leaving with nothing to give. I also did say that the links were decent enough. If he wants to typeset instead of time, then he would be better suited to using the ASS template over the outdated SSA4 template. What's the harm in suggesting he do that?

[TechnoMage]

Originally Posted by GipFace

Did SSA4 intend to have layers malfunction?

Do you mean the first field of the dialog event, the "Marked=0"? I know this field is where ASS's layer info can be found, but, sorry to say SSAv4 does not use this for layers. The simple fact is, layers in SSAv4 do not malfunction. Layers in SSAv4 do not exist.

Did SSA4 intend to have \3C malfunction in the style sheet?

I'm a little confused about this one... Do you mean the style override \3c&HBBGGRR&? Or do you mean the TertiaryColour field in the Style Line. If you mean the former, well, that's not part of SSAv4 anyway, so, technically, if it does anything, it's a malfunction. Now, if you mean the latter, I'll agree that there is a problem. The problem is with the filters that render the subtitles (At least Subtitler and TextSub both break this). The TertiaryColour, along with the SecondaryColour exist in SSAv4 in case "two or more subtitles collide onscreen." [Source: SubStation Alpha Help File] This is properly demonstrated when you use SSA's playback feature, and the correct behaviour is not duplicated with subtitler or TextSub.

My conclusion? No bugs exist in SSAv4, only in the filters that render the scripts.

Now, don't get my intentions wrong... I personally prefer v4+ over v4, and have used it exclusively for all my typesetting. I just think it is wrong to blame a script format, when the filters for rendering it are at fault. Should we also blame SSAv4 for the fact that none of these filters can render it's picture event correctly?

-

Now, onto the topic at hand.
AxMaN1244, for programs, I'd suggest you get a copy of VDub/VDubMod and either VSFilter or VobSub (You should get the VobSub package anyway, as installing that provides you with the ass-specs.doc file, and SubResync, which allows you to convery from SSA to ASS). These will allow you to preview what you are typesetting.

For editing the scripts (and adding effects, etc.), this is something you need to decide on your own. Most people have their own preference as to what program to use. Myself, I use TextPad for 99% of all script editing. Others like to stick to NotePad, UltraEdit, Medusa, or whatever. I'd suggest trying out different programs so that you can make an informed decision about which to use.

For guides, I know of none which would help, that haven't already been mentioned (and linked) in the thread so far.

I think that about covers everything I wanted to say.

[Sakaki-]

Originally Posted by GipFace

Did SSA4 intend to have \3C malfunction in the style sheet? Did SSA4 intend to have layers malfunction? No? Then they're bugs.

(ssa style format) You where talking about this.

Don't misstake the (rendering program or tool) for the "format", cause the format is not buggy its the renderer that is.

And besides what i showed in that code box was something i did when i first started typesetting, its actually a good way to learn how timed effects. works.

Take Care
Sak

[DarkPaladin56]

Originally Posted by crumja

And Dark, whose script might you be referring to?

iono much a bout scripts...other...other than the one you gave me?...i used it and i love it

[Shinonome]

Originally Posted by TechnoMage

Now, onto the topic at hand.
AxMaN1244, for programs, I'd suggest you get a copy of VDub/VDubMod and either VSFilter or VobSub
For editing the scripts (and adding effects, etc.), this is something you need to decide on your own. Most people have their own preference as to what program to use. Myself, I use TextPad for 99% of all script editing. Others like to stick to NotePad, UltraEdit, Medusa, or whatever. I'd suggest trying out different programs so that you can make an informed decision about which to use.

Is there only the \fsc as difference between the SSA and ASS ?.I mean i've been using SSA format (with notepad and VdubMod with the Textsub plug-in)because anyway i had always to change the scaling in the next line.But making a style for it or changing it in the description of the line would not be the same than putting it in the command string? (before the text).As for me i don't use SSA nor medusa because (for me) is faster doing it in notepad (to pick a color or preview a font there is a whole lot of little apps that don't even need to be installed or use a lot of resources).So i don't know about the restrictions of the program itself,other than the fact that they don't support Unicode font's (and since i use mostly those i can't use the previous mentioned programs)and fractions of /bord - /shad-e etc .Someone mentioned the /3C etc ..but you can put those in notepad in the description line and they still work(&Hxxxxxx& in the right position so you don't use the 1/2/3/4 ...unless you mean as a command).So in the end ...what's the peculiarity of ASS respect the SSA?
Thx