AnimeSuki Forums

Akashin · 2012-01-12, 22:51

By that logic Asuma should have been a fair bit stronger, simply by virtue of being Hiruzen's son. Fact is though, unless I'm mistaken the only instance of parentage being a factor in a shinobi's strength is when there are bloodlines involved, and while that does apply to Naruto his bloodline is neither one that really helps him (yet) nor one that he uses at all (unless it played a role in his recovery factor, amping it up even beyond what the Kyuubi may have done). There hasn't really been a character who was noteworthy just because of their parentage, and until we're explicitly told that being Minato's son played a role in Naruto becoming strong I see no reason to assume that is the case.

Still, the loss of his underdog status is a shame. Will certainly miss watching him struggle the way he did back then (well, he still will, it just doesn't feel the same anymore).

itachi-san314 · 2012-01-13, 00:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akashin

By that logic Asuma should have been a fair bit stronger, simply by virtue of being Hiruzen's son. Fact is though, unless I'm mistaken the only instance of parentage being a factor in a shinobi's strength is when there are bloodlines involved, and while that does apply to Naruto his bloodline is neither one that really helps him (yet) nor one that he uses at all (unless it played a role in his recovery factor, amping it up even beyond what the Kyuubi may have done). There hasn't really been a character who was noteworthy just because of their parentage, and until we're explicitly told that being Minato's son played a role in Naruto becoming strong I see no reason to assume that is the case.

its a fair point you're raising, but I think its evidence of just how crazy the story has become. I still hold jounins in high regard despite the currect events of everyone being god-powered. asuma was one of the elite ninja of the village. he was not as good as hiruzen that's for sure, but jounin is still impressive or at least I think it should be. also, he didnt have the drive that hiruzen, minato or naruto have. with gifted genes someone could just lay around all day and amount to nothing to take my point to an extreme. there still needs to be a massive amount of determination and training to get to the level of someone like hiruzen no matter what your dna is.

I dont think anyone was making it a cut and dry genetic argument. it just adds doubt into naruto's progress being solely achieved by determination where there wasn't any doubt before.

xKeir · 2012-01-13, 03:33

Erm .. i may have misinterpreted the whole parentage thing because i'm a little weak in my English.

But how about Kakashi?

He is well , a genius. And even before he got the Sharingan he was already well known for being a prodigy. He was kinda from the Hatake Clan and his Dad was known to be stronger and more respected than the 3 Sanins. Just that after his dad took his own life his clan kinda died down in name.. And he doesn't really have any bloodline limit in his family so yeah. Family of geniuses ?

Akashin · 2012-01-13, 06:07

I actually thought really hard about Kakashi, because you're mostly right. Thing is, we may know that Kakashi's fame initially came from his dad, but that still gives us no reason to assume that his skill came from there too. Though you do raise a point with intelligence being passed down, given that that definitely happens with the Naras as well.

Still, Naruto certainly didn't get very many braincells from his dad, and if they did they're under very good lock and key somewhere.

Shiryuu · 2012-01-13, 07:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akashin

Still, Naruto certainly didn't get very many braincells from his dad, and if they did they're under very good lock and key somewhere.

He hid them inside Sakura... or was it Hinata?

milan kyuubi · 2012-01-13, 07:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akashin

Still, Naruto certainly didn't get very many braincells from his dad, and if they did they're under very good lock and key somewhere.

Now we know the nine tail's chakra harms Naruto. So it's not Naruto's fault, the nine tail's chakra fried his brain a long time ago

itachi-san314 · 2012-01-13, 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by xKeir

Erm .. i may have misinterpreted the whole parentage thing because i'm a little weak in my English.

But how about Kakashi?

He is well , a genius. And even before he got the Sharingan he was already well known for being a prodigy. He was kinda from the Hatake Clan and his Dad was known to be stronger and more respected than the 3 Sanins. Just that after his dad took his own life his clan kinda died down in name.. And he doesn't really have any bloodline limit in his family so yeah. Family of geniuses ?

yea, it seems to not always be a direct power correlation as far as genetics go. like how the ino-shika-cho lineages all share the nearly identical mental and physical abilities isn't the norm but it does happen of course. it seems that strong parents have strong kids, but which generation is stronger seems variable. and then there are ninja like gai who seem to have appeared out of nowhere. I guess those types would be the start of a lineage. if gai could ever find a girl that is...

Jouten · 2012-01-13, 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

yea, it seems to not always be a direct power correlation as far as genetics go. like how the ino-shika-cho lineages all share the nearly identical mental and physical abilities isn't the norm but it does happen of course. it seems that strong parents have strong kids, but which generation is stronger seems variable. and then there are ninja like gai who seem to have appeared out of nowhere. I guess those types would be the start of a lineage. if gai could ever find a girl that is...

Gai and Lee are the underdogs now. Make Lee Hokage and kill Naruto!

(What am I saying?

)

Shiryuu · 2012-01-13, 15:17

Kabuto is the underdog. He really has nothing without his zombies.

Discerptor · 2012-01-13, 16:10

Kabuto for Otokage in 2012!

Hisoka?? · 2012-01-13, 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiryuu

Kabuto is the underdog. He really has nothing without his zombies.

It's part of his arsenal of weapons. You might as well say most of the ninjas really have nothing without their chakra.

+ Kabuto(+orochimaru) has been shown to be fairly capable; at least among the stronger shinobis without the zombies, if not one of the strongest.

itachi-san314 · 2012-01-14, 11:34

yea i wouldn't call kabuto an underdog at all. he's more like an evil genius mastermind who is very close to taking over the ninja world atm. even when he was younger, he was brilliant and strong. not to mention the best spy we've seen in the series. I do still want to know more about his past. much much more

Kowai · 2012-01-14, 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

And I am surprised Kishi brought up the Neji/Naruto fight. That took guts to remind fans given what the manga has become. By beating him, Naruto actually proved that Neji was 100% right. Those that are born special surpass those that are not. Stupid Neji didn't realize that he was talking about himself. As a lowly fodder Hyuuga he could never be Hokage or reach greatest. But Neji was right. No matter how hard Naruto worked, it wouldn't have mattered if his daddy and mommy weren't Minato and an Uzumaki. He was born with fate and the destiny to be great. The child of the Toad Sage's prophesy. He was a super child whose daddy was already Hokage and the greatest to ever live. Naruto is greater than even Jay-Z and Beyonce's kid. So why are we rooting for him?

Couldn't agree more. I was shocked that he would bring up this major contradiction that so cleary illustrates how the story has changed... I personally don't mind what it changed into, it's all the same to me; but it is an inconsistency that the author shouldn't drag back up lol

bonsobon · 2012-01-14, 19:34

That's the "fate" of main characters of mangas such as these-to have something revealed about them that makes them special and above everyone else in the story. Why should Naruto be different to other main characters of other mangas? Surely noone on these forums truly believed that he really was just an ordinary person and would stay that way until the end did they?

Artimus_Prime · 2012-01-14, 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

Meh chapter. The flashbacks went a little too long. We have seen Inspirational Naruto overcome the odds many times before. And now he is about to prove the words of Narutism. In other news, what happened to all that backup Shikamaru's dad sent? Or are Kakashi and Gai just that damn fast they beat everyone?

And I am surprised Kishi brought up the Neji/Naruto fight. That took guts to remind fans given what the manga has become. By beating him, Naruto actually proved that Neji was 100% right. Those that are born special surpass those that are not. Stupid Neji didn't realize that he was talking about himself. As a lowly fodder Hyuuga he could never be Hokage or reach greatest. But Neji was right. No matter how hard Naruto worked, it wouldn't have mattered if his daddy and mommy weren't Minato and an Uzumaki. He was born with fate and the destiny to be great. The child of the Toad Sage's prophesy. He was a super child whose daddy was already Hokage and the greatest to ever live. Naruto is greater than even Jay-Z and Beyonce's kid. So why are we rooting for him?

I think he still is an underdog..I am rooting for him because for all the badassness that may have come before him no one has been able to prevent the catastrophe that lies ahead…naruto has been made special by literally harboring hatred inside himself and dealing with it on the outside with the villagers. his predecessors have entrusted him with an answer. Right now he doesnt have it. yes he has been bestowed with gifts but no explicit talent to use them properly. he has the deternination of an underdog to never give up, so he will keep trying until he gets it right. i am rooting to see how he does what others could not…

Ero-Senn1n · 2012-01-15, 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by bonsobon

That's the "fate" of main characters of mangas such as these-to have something revealed about them that makes them special and above everyone else in the story. Why should Naruto be different to other main characters of other mangas? Surely noone on these forums truly believed that he really was just an ordinary person and would stay that way until the end did they?

Many believed that he is not "special" like Neji or Sasuke, that is he is just a random orphan taken by the 4th hokage, and that he has no great clan or other heritage. That is his only special heritage is that the 9 tailed fox is sealed in him. But it turns out he is one of the Uzumaki clan and he is the son of the 4th hokage. And on top of that there is the prophecy that he will be the savior of the ninja world. That is why many are angry as you can read it in the forum topic "neji was right"

And that is why it was so hilarious to see the flashback in this chapter where Neji talks about fate. I was never angry about this matter, actually i like this flashback, because it shows that both Neji and Naruto were right even if they didn't know why at that time. Naruto was right because hard work and fighting against the odds, risking your life and beating the stronger ones is what leads to success, but Neji was also right about "fate" because many people risk everything for their goals but in the end "fate" decides between them, that is who is lucky and who isn't. And Naruto (as all such shonen manga heroes) is very lucky to have survived until now, we can call that "fate" or we would have to call that "plot hole"

But if you look at it from a different perspective they were both wrong. Neji accepted his bad luck and didn't do anything to change his "fate", he believed to know what is the future but nobody can tell that. On the other hand Naruto as always relied on huge luck (he didn't even have the plan of using the 9 tails chakra), which means even if he didn't know he actually used his "fate" while he was arguing that there is no fate

james0246 · 2012-01-18, 01:05

Chapter 570 thread has been opened (early, as usual). Please move all relevant discussions to the new thread.

2012-01-13, 03:33	Link #43
xKeir Upon a wishing Star Join Date: Dec 2011	Erm .. i may have misinterpreted the whole parentage thing because i'm a little weak in my English. But how about Kakashi? He is well , a genius. And even before he got the Sharingan he was already well known for being a prodigy. He was kinda from the Hatake Clan and his Dad was known to be stronger and more respected than the 3 Sanins. Just that after his dad took his own life his clan kinda died down in name.. And he doesn't really have any bloodline limit in his family so yeah. Family of geniuses ? __________________ When you hate others you hate yourself. When you forgive them you too are saved. - Asakura Keiko

2012-01-12, 22:51	Link #41
Akashin Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011	By that logic Asuma should have been a fair bit stronger, simply by virtue of being Hiruzen's son. Fact is though, unless I'm mistaken the only instance of parentage being a factor in a shinobi's strength is when there are bloodlines involved, and while that does apply to Naruto his bloodline is neither one that really helps him (yet) nor one that he uses at all (unless it played a role in his recovery factor, amping it up even beyond what the Kyuubi may have done). There hasn't really been a character who was noteworthy just because of their parentage, and until we're explicitly told that being Minato's son played a role in Naruto becoming strong I see no reason to assume that is the case. Still, the loss of his underdog status is a shame. Will certainly miss watching him struggle the way he did back then (well, he still will, it just doesn't feel the same anymore).

2012-01-13, 06:07	Link #44
Akashin Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011	I actually thought really hard about Kakashi, because you're mostly right. Thing is, we may know that Kakashi's fame initially came from his dad, but that still gives us no reason to assume that his skill came from there too. Though you do raise a point with intelligence being passed down, given that that definitely happens with the Naras as well. Still, Naruto certainly didn't get very many braincells from his dad, and if they did they're under very good lock and key somewhere.

2012-01-13, 15:17	Link #49
Shiryuu Magical Boy Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hiding... don't try to find me. Age: 20	Kabuto is the underdog. He really has nothing without his zombies.

2012-01-13, 16:10	Link #50
Discerptor ANIUE!111 Join Date: Oct 2006	Kabuto for Otokage in 2012!

2012-01-14, 11:34	Link #52
itachi-san314 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011	yea i wouldn't call kabuto an underdog at all. he's more like an evil genius mastermind who is very close to taking over the ninja world atm. even when he was younger, he was brilliant and strong. not to mention the best spy we've seen in the series. I do still want to know more about his past. much much more

2012-01-14, 19:34	Link #54
bonsobon Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011	That's the "fate" of main characters of mangas such as these-to have something revealed about them that makes them special and above everyone else in the story. Why should Naruto be different to other main characters of other mangas? Surely noone on these forums truly believed that he really was just an ordinary person and would stay that way until the end did they?

2012-01-18, 01:05	Link #57
james0246 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: East Cupcake	Chapter 570 thread has been opened (early, as usual). Please move all relevant discussions to the new thread.