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Old 2011-02-26, 19:05   Link #141
blinded by blood
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Oakland, CA
Age: 33
Send a message via AIM to synaesthetic
Very well-put.

I don't actually have much of a response to this because, well, I agree with virtually everything you've said.

It's nice to discuss this sort of thing with people who actually respond to your points rather than just plugging their ears up and shouting LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!
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Old 2011-03-09, 02:55   Link #142
Kurumada's lost child
Join Date: Nov 2003
I just found truly great debate on youtube between a right wing conservative and one of the radio hosts of the venus project. The debate takes place over skype with two very smart people from both sides of the aisle, both of the them are radio hosts so their communication skills are top notch.

The conservative guy believes in free market and has very compelling arguments as to why a society without money can't work. He also asks very smart questions on how a BRE is supposed to run.

It is a very stimulating and thought provoking debate. Don't miss it, I am sure this video will generate a lot of discussion if you guys watch it.

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Old 2011-03-09, 11:32   Link #143
Join Date: Mar 2006
That was actually a rather fascinating, if long, discussion. Both sides really had a lot to say. I wouldn't really apply right wing to Stephan but he is definitely someone who firmly believes in free market principles and minimal if not zero government control or regulation in economies.

What was interesting was in the common ground between the two. It was really great to see that they were able to find things they agreed with on fundamental issues such as education, marketing, government influence, the poor labeling of ideas and social movements like socialism and capitalism, etc. On the other hand the guests weren't really that interesting and kind of hurt the conversation, although the second guest did make a good appeal at the end of the debate.

Clearly they have very different ideas and concerns about each others concepts of these two systems but it just made me wish more people could do this, on a bigger scale. Conservative or Liberal, it doesn't matter, no exchange of ideas can happen without an open mind and mutual respect for all parties involved.
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Old 2011-03-10, 03:45   Link #144
Kurumada's lost child
Join Date: Nov 2003
Glad you enjoyed it

It is great when you encounter such a civilized discussion that lacks little emotional response. It makes for a very cohesive debate where actual solutions and new perspectives can be reached. I was hoping that such a discussion would take place in these forums but at least this thread turned out be less flammable than the others

It seems that Stefan Molyneux might get involved with the movement somehow.
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Old 2011-04-19, 23:25   Link #145
Kurumada's lost child
Join Date: Nov 2003
Some new developments

Apparently, the Venus project wishes to part ways with the zeitgeist movement. Something is definitely up, because a year ago, TVP parted ways with the creators of the movie earth 2.0, which is supposed to be released in 2012 as a mainstream movie for the masses. This happened because the movie directors wanted to focus on the spiritual aspects but Jacque would have none of it, he even called it "mental masturbation". It seems Jacque Fresco has very low tolerance for slight deviations from the original message.

Here is the post from TZM boards explaining what is going on:

TVP's desire to disassociate from TZM:

Last night during a very long meeting on Teamspeak Roxanne has stated that TVP wants to move on, on its own as they felt we werent going in the right direction. Numerous questions on the actual meaning of that statement were ignored. In fact the answer was never provided and that is probably because it was untrue.

It became apparant that:

1. They were not happy that we did not openly endorsed and pursued donations for their movie project
2. They felt they werent given ground to " control " The Zeitgeist Movement and its operations
3. They thought that Peter wanted to be the director of The Venus Project ( or something to this extent it was really all vague talk )
4. According to TVP, Jacque should be the only credible/reliable source to explain a resource based economy
5. We can no longer use official TVP materials such as logo's, images and designs however due to the term RBE not being trademarked/copyrighted there is no limitation on that for us. This became apparant due to Roxanne's explicit statement about this.
6. TVP now wishes to coordinate the activism teams themselves and in the meeting openly called for people to perform activism under their umbrella.
7. There was no ground for a reasonable discussion, TVP had made up their mind and it was not going to be changed

There were many other silly statements that were quite hurtfull to a lot of members.

The Zeitgeist Movement and consequential steps:

As much as we regret this development in which we feel we had no part and feel we could not have prevented. This does not affect movement operations in the long run.

This has no direct effect on our basic operation as a movement. To myself and a lot of coordinators it has allways been about promoting this direction, targeting the value system and informing our fellow human beings about the need and possibilities for a transition out of a self destructing and wastefull sytem.

We will continue to advocate the train of thought behind a Resource Based Economy and will likely expand and incorporate more ideas and scientifically viable solutions into our " package ".

Not particularly instigated by this situation but now certainly under attention is the development of a more structured movement. This means a higher level of organisation. More direct and tangible activism. 2011 is the year we are going to lose our Diapers as a movement.

This means that we will need a larger team for the global day to day management of the movement. Active news updates on the front page. Feeds/Streams of Chapter news. Frequent Press releases. More street activism and appearances in public. More lecturers and Spokespersons. Increased media stalking:P and appearances etc.

And we have set the stage and framework in order to achieve this. As Global Chapters Coordinator in service of the movement i have had the privilege of having the most complete overview of the growth of this movement and its perils and i can attest to the fact that we are now gaining momentum and increased potential to become the most influential / widespread and active social movement this planet has seen till date. And seen the state of this planet and society, this is very much needed. So lets go for it!

Chapter Instructions:

Refrain from bombarding TVP with what,how and why questions:

While it is understandable that many of you have questions about this event, we do not want to flood TVP with questions. If you do have questions, perhaps you can send them by email in consideration of their privacy.

Venus Project Images and essays:

Please remove all images and writings on official chapter sites that are produced by The Venus Project as Roxanne has requested this not to be used by TZM anymore.

Chapter coordination:

As much as TZM will continue and expand its activities, so will its Chapters and with the move by TVP to take " control " of its own activism (as far as that exists).... ,a clear distinction will need to be made in our Chapter structure. While more complex parts of this event will have to be discussed at soon planned Coordinator and International meetings, i have no reason to suspect any international chapter coordinator to wish to transition to a venus project chapter coordinator, but if that is the case you may send your resignation as a Coordinator to so that we may keep an accurate account of active TZM Chapter coordinators and seek replacement.

In conclusion:

Until this subject has been properly discussed at a meeting, i feel we should refrain from other heavy comments or speculation.

In General i would like to express my thanks for the TREMENDOUS work everyone has done so far, and that i enjoy working with all of you and am immensely proud we have alreadyc ome this far.

Let it be known that there is allways a willingness to conversate with The Venus Project from our side and that it would be great if they turned around and started acting sensible again. Putting the direction in front of the label, not behind. In any case, i thank Jacque and Roxanne for 2 years of great cooperation and wish them good luck with their efforts.

Gilbert Ismail
Global Chapters Coordinator
The Zeitgeist Movement


" The true meaning of life is to plant trees, under whose shade you do not expect to sit."
Nelson Henderson

Peter Joseph will address the issue today at 4:00pm eastern time in the following link:

Edit: Found the actual discussion itself.

Last edited by Sugetsu; 2011-04-19 at 23:49.
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