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 AnimeSuki Forum (L) Girls und Panzer

Zaku_II
1st Scouting Group

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: High Seas Fleet
Quote:
 Originally Posted by GenjiChan You forgot the earphone/earplugs. If gunfire could get you deaf what about artillery? If we say decreasing the "amount of gun powder" to make the shells less dangerous... the effectivity is also decrease right? That includes the distance the shell could fly and its penetration is decrease as well.
My speculation is the shells have the same ballistic characteristics of real shells (initial velocity, weight), and they are made of some soft metal to absorb the bigger part of the energy in the impact by deforming, coupled with ac system in the tank that measure the energy transfered to the tank, and when this is more than certain value it raises the white flag.

NoemiChan
Banned

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philippines
Age: 29
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Zaku_II My speculation is the shells have the same ballistic characteristics of real shells (initial velocity, weight), and they are made of some soft metal to absorb the bigger part of the energy in the impact by deforming, coupled with ac system in the tank that measure the energy transfered to the tank, and when this is more than certain value it raises the white flag.
Funny, I thought that pounding the location of the flag hard with a heavy mallet could do the same effect....

Zaku_II
1st Scouting Group

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: High Seas Fleet
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Sumeragi Actually, 240 mm effective armor would be when the plate is done at 30 degrees from the horizontal. The Germans used plates at 30 degrees from the vertical, which would be 60 degrees from the horizontal. Below is how the Germans would have put the test plate:
Oops

More accustomed to seeing data of battleships. The formula is measuring the angle from the horizontal plane, not the vertical (thee usual measurement angle in armour test)

Then the equivalent of 120mm at 30º (from the vertical) is 139mm vertical.

Zaku_II
1st Scouting Group

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: High Seas Fleet
Quote:
 Originally Posted by GenjiChan Funny, I thought that pounding the location of the flag hard with a heavy mallet could do the same effect....
Of course your speculation is as good as mine (and funnier)

MeisterBabylon
Author

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: 346Pro
Age: 31
Quote:
 Originally Posted by LoweGear It's the MAX-03 Adzam from Mobile Suit Gundam. It's one of those Mobile Armors from the Odessa arc.
...I really don't do superdeforms too well...

Quote:
 Originally Posted by LoweGear ImagesYukari <3Sorry; JavaScript is required, dynamic content not loaded. Reload?
And Freud was vindicated.
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 2012-11-24, 21:46 Link #1586 Chiaki_chan Kubo GO TO HELL     Join Date: May 2012 Location: with Maki-sama Age: 24 __________________
MeisterBabylon
Author

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: 346Pro
Age: 31
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Random Wanderer Kind of disturbing, that. Miho I could come up with an explanation for, but the volleyball team captain actually standing entirely on the outside of her tank while taking fire was just ridiculous. I mean, really girl, are you trying to get turned into a red stain across the top of your tank?
I guess the term redshirt works in reverse for redbloomers.
__________________

Cosmic Eagle

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: 輪廻転生
Quote:
 Originally Posted by 4Tran Was it significantly weaker? Where is that documented?
I was of the impression that KwK 36 is more comparable to D25-T. In destructive power if not penetration while T-34/85 needed to out manouevre the Tiger in order to kill it from the sides or close range

Quote:
 but I can't imagine too many happy physics outcomes, extra protection or no, if the Type 89 is hit by an 88 round.
The thing even survives getting hit by a 17 pdr round.....and the crew still live despite later pics showing the entire rear blown out by internal explosion.
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4Tran
Senior Member

Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Tak Not really convinced about that. See... if you recall, the compartments actually caught on fire, requiring the crews to extinguish it at one point Though I suspect thats for dramatic tension than anything else. - Tak
My point is that I didn't think that it'd be dangerous enough for tanks to catch fire. While they're firing live ammunition, it should just be pretend penetrating, not the real thing.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Endless Knackwurst Shooting at another tank with with a machine gun (or significant amounts of anything pointy and fast) usually encourages the target tank commander/other exposed crew to button up, which dramatically reduces their situational awareness. Even the best vision blocks leave pretty big blind spots.
That's good practice in real combat, but you'd think that the rules would try to discourage that kind of situation.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Sumeragi Here are the penetration test results from 500 meters: 85 mm ZiS S-53: 111 mm (steel plate vertical) 8.8 cm KwK 36 L/56: 120 mm (armoured plate 30 degrees from vertical) It should be noted that in penetration testing, the Soviets used steel which was not up to the standards of those of the Western Allies, and the Germans actually used high-quality armored steel set at an angle. This means that the Germans always had a harder time penetrating in their tests, leading to underestimation by many even supposing the Soviets used good steel in their tests above, the 8.8 cm has been able to penetrate effectively 130 mm, which is more than the 111 mm of the 85 mm.
It looks like the figures you're using are

85mm APHE ammuntion fired at 90° - 111mm
88mm APCBC ammuntion fired at 90° - 120mm

It's not a very fair comparison, but we luckily have more tests:

With both weapons using APCBC ammunition, we get the following penetration

Code:
```85mm at 30°   500m range: 103mm penetration   1000m range: 94mm penetration
88mm at 30°   500m range: 110mm penetration   1000m range: 100mm penetration```
The 88mm L56 scores slightly better than the 85mm does, but the difference isn't very significant. The difference in testing techniques isn't all that important because pretty much all of the gun/armor testing in World War II was flawed in some way. Real world combat performance rarely matched up to the test ground results. Any numbers derived from tests should only be regarded as rough figures rather than any hard and set rules.

For the two guns we're discussing, it shouldn't be surprising that they have similar performance given that they fire similar sized rounds (the 88mm is a bit heavier) at similar speeds (the 85mm is a little faster).

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Zaku_II My speculation is the shells have the same ballistic characteristics of real shells (initial velocity, weight), and they are made of some soft metal to absorb the bigger part of the energy in the impact by deforming, coupled with ac system in the tank that measure the energy transfered to the tank, and when this is more than certain value it raises the white flag.
That's precisely what should be happening. We've only seen the single penetration so far with the Type 89.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle I was of the impression that KwK 36 is more comparable to D25-T. In destructive power if not penetration while T-34/85 needed to out manouevre the Tiger in order to kill it from the sides or close range
The D25-T is a fair bit better than the 88mm L56: 140mm penetration at 500m and 130mm penetration at 1000m. As it happens, a Tiger I has just a bit too much armor for a 85mm round to penetrate at regular combat ranges while the opposite isn't true. This makes a big difference in a Tiger vs. T-34/85 duel, but it's a little less important if other tanks are involved.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle The thing even survives getting hit by a 17 pdr round.....and the crew still live despite later pics showing the entire rear blown out by internal explosion.
A real 17-pounder round would have gone straight through a Type 89 and out the other side.
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Sumeragi
Banned

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
Quote:
 Originally Posted by 4Tran 88mm APCBC ammuntion fired at 90° - 120mm
Again, wrong. It was 120 mm at 30° from the vertical using armored steel, not the low quality iron that the Soviets used for their tests. You're making incomparable comparisons using completely different standards. Furthermore, the quality of the metal and propellent used in the 85 mm shells were of much lower quality, leading to even further evidence that the 85 mm was subpar at most.

 2012-11-25, 00:43 Link #1591 LoweGear Great Commandy One Graphic Designer     Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: 3 times the passion of the usual flamenco Rips of Miho and Saori's Character Songs: Miho NicoNicohttp://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm19431946Sorry; JavaScript is required, dynamic content not loaded. Reload? Saori NicoNicohttp://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm19432029Sorry; JavaScript is required, dynamic content not loaded. Reload? __________________ On Fate: "There is no destiny. There is only duty to those we cherish and fury for those who oppose us."
 2012-11-25, 02:01 Link #1592 Chiaki_chan Kubo GO TO HELL     Join Date: May 2012 Location: with Maki-sama Age: 24 Ho thanks you for song's Miho and Saori __________________
Cosmic Eagle

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: 輪廻転生
Quote:
 Originally Posted by 4Tran A real 17-pounder round would have gone straight through a Type 89 and out the other side.
And from the wreckage, it is probable that it did.

Therefore I conclude that the girls are all superhuman or bio-enhanced...

As for D25-T, well plenty of reports credit it and the ML-20 with being of underpowered muzzle velocity for their class. I think that means compared to 17 pdr, L43 and PaK 44
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 2012-11-25, 03:38 Link #1594 Chiaki_chan Kubo GO TO HELL     Join Date: May 2012 Location: with Maki-sama Age: 24 kawai __________________
LoweGear
Great Commandy One
Graphic Designer

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 3 times the passion of the usual flamenco
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Chiaki_chan kawai
And the best thing, it's actually motorized.

Also, have a Yukari:

Images
Full Metal Jacket
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On Fate: "There is no destiny. There is only duty to those we cherish and fury for those who oppose us."

 2012-11-25, 07:08 Link #1596 Endless Soul Megane girl fan     Join Date: May 2011 Location: Diagonally parked in a parallel universe. Age: 48 I've come to the realization that this series has made me think that it's quite normal for school girls to operate tanks, and that I never realized that I accepted it. Interesting. Endless "Routine" Soul __________________ Signature by ganbaru
Sumeragi
Banned

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell In the mean time ImagesJoin Senshadou nowSorry; JavaScript is required, dynamic content not loaded. Reload?
The funny thing about that picture: The R-18 version has her assets being substantially improved.

Zaku_II
1st Scouting Group

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: High Seas Fleet
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Sumeragi The funny thing about that picture: The R-18 version has her assets being substantially improved.
Where!!!

Sumeragi
Banned

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Zaku_II Where!!!
The usual place: Pixiv.

Cosmic Eagle

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: 輪廻転生
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Sumeragi The funny thing about that picture: The R-18 version has her assets being substantially improved.
More like that pic is undersized and the R-18 one is correct judging from Yukari's changing room sequence
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 Tags comedy, gup, military, original anime, slice of life, sports, tanks